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Post office shooting...

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by CharlesAFerg, Dec 23, 2009.

  1. CharlesAFerg

    CharlesAFerg Beaverton Active Member

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    Before you read, I figured I would ask again the legality of carrying concealed into a post officer with a CHP. It's perfectly legal, correct? (Public building, etc) I would like somebody to find the particular segments of the ORS relevant to this.

    Regardless, this is kind of ridiculous.

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,581012,00.html

    Police: 5 People Held Hostage Inside Virginia Post Office
    Wednesday, December 23, 2009
    PrintShareThis
    AP

    Dec. 23: Police respond to a hostage situation at the Wytheville Post Office in Virginia.
    WYTHEVILLE, Va. — An armed man in a wheelchair took five people hostage Wednesday at a post office in a small, rural town, forcing officials to cordon off a three-block area of a downtown filled with holiday shoppers.

    Shots were fired, but there were no reports of injuries. The man made no demands other than to ask for a pizza, said Pete Rendina, spokesman for the U.S. Postal Inspection Service.

    Rendina said the man was in a wheelchair and missing part of his leg, but he had no other information. Postal inspectors from Roanoke and Charleston, West Virginia, were at the scene.

    Virginia State Police sent in a special weapons and tactics team and a bomb technician. Police at the scene told the Wytheville Enterprise the man had five pounds of a common plastic explosive strapped to his chest. State police spokeswoman Corinne Geller would not confirm that.

    Susan Holman, manager of a store across the street, said officers told employees to leave the building because there was a man with explosives in the post office.

    "The officer told us the man had enough explosives to take out the whole block," Holman told the Enterprise.

    Mayor Trent Crewe told The Associated Press five hostages were in the building, including three employees and two customers.

    Postal worker Walt Korndoerfer said he was in the post office when he heard shots and a co-worker ran past. He called police and then ran himself.

    "You hear a shot, you get out," Korndoerfer told The Roanoke Times.

    Town Manager Wayne Sutherland, speaking from his office four blocks from the scene, said dozens of officers had circled the freestanding, brick post office.

    "It's completely surrounded by police in every direction," Sutherland said. "All I can see is blue lights."

    Sutherland said the streets of the town of 8,500 were filled with holiday shoppers.

    "It's Christmas and all the stores are busy," he said.

    See Next Story in U.S.
     
  2. glockguy

    glockguy Albany Oregon Well-Known Member

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    carrying in a Post Office Is not legal. Because it is a government building... If im not mistaken. If Im wrong then my CHL instructor is stupid..
     
  3. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Clackamas County Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    The Post Office is a US Government facility and thus federal law applies, not State law. It is illegal to CC in most federal facilities, including all PO's. Having a CC permit is irrelevant. I do believe it is ok for sworn LEO's to do so.

    Most are posted as "no weapons" and have a reference to the CFR's (Code of Federal Regulations). You can get the reference by going to the PO and finding the notice on the bulletin board, or you can google CFR/weapons/etc.
     
  4. PhysicsGuy

    PhysicsGuy Corvallis, OR Resident Science Nut

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    As stated before you CANNOT carry in a post office. Unless you are an LEO, or other government employee involved in law enforcement.


    Here is the federal regulation;

     
  5. PhysicsGuy

    PhysicsGuy Corvallis, OR Resident Science Nut

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    Also as far as the story goes, it does not appear that had a firearm, all it says is that he had "explosives" strapped to his chest. Of course it gives no details as to who "fired shots".
     
  6. BillM

    BillM Amity OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Hmmmm---"OR OTHER LAWFUL PURPOSES". That's pretty broad, and will probably
    end up as a test case someday. OK to carry in the post office? Maybe it is,
    but my pockets aren't deep enough to find out for sure.
     
  7. keitha300wsm

    keitha300wsm Lebanon, OR Member

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    (d)(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

    This says I can if I'm on business and I'm carrying legally, CWP, like picking up my mail.
     
  8. CharlesAFerg

    CharlesAFerg Beaverton Active Member

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    For the sake of the argument, I've never carried in a post office. Yet, I recall reading arguments for and against it, but they all seem to be similar to the legality of carrying in "court facilities". I do appreciate the info taking into account state vs federal facilities. It just doesn't seem like a good idea, from what I gather, to carry in those places at all. Regardless, eventually I feel that this will be abolished, but it's unfortunate that it goes down to the size of your pocketbook.

    Thank you all so much for your sources, I really appreciate the information.

    Hm, we'll see how this story develops, I guess.
     
  9. tionico

    tionico Thurston County Well-Known Member

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    Well, this IS interesting..... I've seen the signs against arms in the post office. Howeve,r reading the above cited sections of the CFR, these statutes apply to FEDERAL FACILITIES. The US Government have made the very clear and repeated statements that the US Postal Service is a private corporation, and NOT a government operation. The above cited statues specifically name courts and offices of the Federal Government... avoid mention of the Post Office.

    I rather suspect the signs that are supposed to be present at every entrance (any of which I've seen fail to cite the statute, as required by law) are holdovers, since the CFR sections were written a LONG time ago, and the Postal Service officially separated from the Federal Government fairly recently.

    One more issue... it is legal for private citizens to ship long guns via the mail, and for FFL dealers to ship handguns via Priority Mail. How is someone to ship such guns if they cannot be brought onto Post Office property? I've seen signs posted at Post Offices which purport to ban all firearms "FROM POSTAL PROPERTY", indicating they cannot even be in the trunk of a vehicle as it enters the car park.

    I have a hard time believing it is the intent of the law to prohibit any and all arms from being present in any condition or situation anywhere within the property lines of postal property. But hey, laws are not all that often logical, are they? Some stupid bureaucrat decides "guns are dangerous" and must be abolished, pronounces them illegal anywhere on the property, and that's that, problem solved... or is it? How could this guy in a wheelchair get away with bringing a weapon INTO the lobby of a post office and using it.... except that no one else in the building could have lawfully been armed......

    I'm often carrying when I stop by to gather up my mail. What, am I supposed to unholster it, drop it on the floor of my car, THEN walk in, open my PO box, walk back out, reholster? Ridiculous. When I'm on my bike, which I almost always am during the warmer/drier months, where am I supposed to stash the gun? IN either case, the thing (dangerous as it is, just sitting there....) is STILL "on post office property", even on the floor of the car. Shall I leave it in the bag on the back of my bike, available for anyone who steals the bike or rifles through the bag? Come ON..... oh, I forgot, it doesn't have to be reasonable, make sense, or have any logic to it whatever.....

    still, I find it interesting that the Post Office is no longer officially part of the Federal Government....... but they continue to use the prohibition of arms in Federal facilities to justify the ban......

    I would like to see the ban modified to allow anyone in lawful possession to carry a weapon onto or within postal facilities. The next section, prohibiting the carrying with intent to use in a crime, or cause harm, would safely cover, with additional penalties, anyone who actuallly USED a gun for nefarious purposes in the post office...... why not leave it there? Does anyone in government actually think the sign will prevent anyone carrying the gun onto the property to use it in a crime? Come ON>>>> such use is already illegal, and if someone is on about using the gun to wreak harm upon someone, he is already breaking the law. Adding the additional crime of simple possession does nothing. Oh, sorry, I forgot again.. the law does not have to make sense or be reasonable.


    Interesting.. I have wondered what might happen should someone "make" me with a pistol in my jersey pocket as I'm emptying out my post office box and carrying it out to the bike......

    perhaps the "lawful purpose, such as hunting" exemption would suffice.. myb "lawful purpose" is getting my mail. Besides, what sort of game couid anyone be hunting in the Post Office? Postal clerks have no season on them, and no one sells tags for them. At least, not lawfully. Same with other patrons.....


    crazy.

    Except for the possible application of this federal statute, carrying concealed and with permit should be legal.... local and state regs, on their face, would not prohibit it.
     
  10. Randini

    Randini Salem Member

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    and so when I mailed a shotgun I sold on Gunbroker I broke the law, by going into a PO with it.
     
  11. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Salem Well-Known Member

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    Threadjack: Does anyone know if a bullet could set off those plastic explosives, "taking out the whole block?"

    Obviously I know little about plastic explosives, LOL.
     
  12. tionico

    tionico Thurston County Well-Known Member

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    I think plastics need an electrical current to set them off. Now, tannerite is a different story....... impact DOES set that stuff off.... which can be great fun.

    But, please don't do this in public.
     
  13. Hondo

    Hondo Keizer Member

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    This country was founded on unions. Without unions you don't have a pot to piss in. I'm proud to be a union member, the only reason I have a roof over my head is do to unions. Standing alone gets nothing done.
     
  14. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Salem Well-Known Member

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    OK, so if the PO is not government property but is the property of a private corporation called the Postal Service, doesn't a private corporation have a right to post "no firearms" and make it stick?

    ??