Portland security guard shot with own gun

[Knobgoblin]

See what @solv3nt said below.


Yep, also even if the hammer is cocked the web of the hand or small enough digit will stop the hammer from dropping and prevent the gun from firing.

During the Japanese Occupation Ip Man was a well respected police officer.
During his time on the police force, a thief pulled a revolver and attempted to kill him, which he prevented by grasping the cylinder. Some legends would have it that Ip Man broke the cylinder out of the gun with sheer finger strength.

I use to practice disarming techniques with a 1911 by throwing it out of battery. I remember years ago some big name gunsmith (can't remember which one) made the "Ultimate CQB 1911", it had a guard on the dust cover that came out and prevented the pistol from pushed out battery via a muzzle strike.

Was this actually made?

 

[rjmt]

Not entirely true, if the hammer isn't cocked, you can prevent a revolver from firing if you prevent the cylinder from rotating.

A semi auto can be prevented from firing by removing the slide from battery. A revolver similarly can be prevented from firing by preventing the hammer from moving rearwards; which is accomplished by preventing rotation.

I've tried that with the SP101 with snap caps loaded
your going to have to have very strong hands to keep that little 5 shot cylinder from rotating with Ruger 's trigger
nether my son or I can do it
but I guess if your a hyperactive meth head one could

in my case, when I draw the revolver, it's an automatic reflex to pull the hammer into single action

 

[titsonritz]

View attachment 1230289

Was this actually made?

No clue, but that is it. Pardini, I should have remembered that, had a HS friend with that name.

 

[Knobgoblin]

No clue, but that is it. Pardini, I should have remembered that, had a HS friend with that name.

When that came out the first observation was how difficult a "tap , rack " would be . The skull crusher spike would give you stigmata pretty quick.

 

[Ginocide]

I brought this up during the Portland riots, open carry does not discourage volant people in Portland,
it just agitates them to attack you and attempt to take your firearm
they have no fear of bodily harm or even death

Sounds like a self-correcting problem to me...

 

[solv3nt]

I've tried that with the SP101 with snap caps loaded
your going to have to have very strong hands to keep that little 5 shot cylinder from rotating with Ruger 's trigger
nether my son or I can do it
but I guess if your a hyperactive meth head one could

in my case, when I draw the revolver, it's an automatic reflex to pull the hammer into single action

Good to know! I've only got one revolver, which is an old python, so I won't be trying that. Ruger builds tanks.

 

[rjmt]

Good to know! I've only got one revolver, which is an old python, so I won't be trying that. Ruger builds tanks.

your gona have to have hands of a Ninja Master to stop this cylinder
that's polished stainless steel

 

[Ginocide]

I've tried that with the SP101 with snap caps loaded
your going to have to have very strong hands to keep that little 5 shot cylinder from rotating with Ruger 's trigger
nether my son or I can do it
but I guess if your a hyperactive meth head one could

in my case, when I draw the revolver, it's an automatic reflex to pull the hammer into single action

I respectfully disagree, I find this quite easy to do. Ultimately the two sources of power are the attackers entire hand's grip/squeeze strength, vs the shooter's single finger's squeeze strength. The attacker also has the cylinder fluting assisting them by acting gripping sites where they can get extra purchase and wedge their grip into the upper and lower strap even further preventing the shooter from overpowering it. Finally, these competing forces would put large and atypical stresses on the internal parts of the revolver, greatly increasing the chance of damaging the internal parts such as the cylinder hand/pall which would render the gun inoperable or unsafe.

I can't say I've tested the SP-101 specifically, but in testing with a GP-100, zero out of three "shooter" testers could overpower the same pool of "attacker" testers. This was a test under ideal attacker (worst-case shooter) situation.

Is this a realistic test? Not really. The attacker would have to be knowledgeable and swift to pull it off, and the shooter would have to have failed many other tests of situational awareness and defensive spacing for this to happen, an unfluted cylinder with a polished and/or oiled surface could further complicate the strategy, but it is sound "attacker" strategy in theory.

I'm not naysaying carrying a revolver over a semi-auto though, just sharing information. An attacker could theoretically pull off a similar feat against a semi-auto by pushing the slide back and gripping the slide/frame together to keep the slide bound to the rear.

I just find this kinda stuff interesting. In other "don't try this at home" self defense tactics and gun mechanics, it's pretty interesting how surprisingly easy it is to keep a semi-auto from cycling during firing by gripping the slide and frame or even by holding the slide closed by pressing your thumbs against the rear of the slide. STRONG emphasis on "don't try this at home" by the way, but there are fun youtube videos about it.

 

[rjmt]

I respectfully disagree, I find this quite easy to do. Ultimately the two sources of power are the attackers entire hand's grip/squeeze strength, vs the shooter's single finger's squeeze strength. The attacker also has the cylinder fluting assisting them by acting gripping sites where they can get extra purchase and wedge their grip into the upper and lower strap even further preventing the shooter from overpowering it. Finally, these competing forces would put large and atypical stresses on the internal parts of the revolver, greatly increasing the chance of damaging the internal parts such as the cylinder hand/pall which would render the gun inoperable or unsafe.

I can't say I've tested the SP-101 specifically, but in testing with a GP-100, zero out of three "shooter" testers could overpower the same pool of "attacker" testers. This was a test under ideal attacker (worst-case shooter) situation.

Is this a realistic test? Not really. The attacker would have to be knowledgeable and swift to pull it off, and the shooter would have to have failed many other tests of situational awareness and defensive spacing for this to happen, an unfluted cylinder with a polished and/or oiled surface could further complicate the strategy, but it is sound "attacker" strategy in theory.

I'm not naysaying carrying a revolver over a semi-auto though, just sharing information. An attacker could theoretically pull off a similar feat against a semi-auto by pushing the slide back and gripping the slide/frame together to keep the slide bound to the rear.

I just find this kinda stuff interesting. In other "don't try this at home" self defense tactics and gun mechanics, it's pretty interesting how surprisingly easy it is to keep a semi-auto from cycling during firing by gripping the slide and frame or even by holding the slide closed by pressing your thumbs against the rear of the slide. STRONG emphasis on "don't try this at home" by the way, but there are fun youtube videos about it.

have you handled a SP101? those flutes are very shallow with smooth edges and total thickness is only 1.5" wide
your NOT getting your fingers to grip in those flutes and most adults hands are to large to get a grip on it's 5 shot cylinder
again, your gona have to have the hands of a Ninja Master to stop this cylinder from rotating

academic discussion at best
I'm not a paid security guard who worries about liability
if I approach an intruder and only have my SP101, it's going to be out and cocked LOOOONG before the intruder is in grappling range

 

[rjmt]

then there is my Smith 686 with an unfluted cylinder
the rear target sight is large enough to keep someone from getting the web of their hand under the hammer
"wedge their grip unto the upper and lower strap of an oiled stainless steel revolver"?!?!?

 

[rjmt]

and I'll then counter with a Ruger Mk2 target pistol
how does one plan to jam that action?

 

[Flopsweat]

I respectfully disagree, I find this quite easy to do. Ultimately the two sources of power are the attackers entire hand's grip/squeeze strength, vs the shooter's single finger's squeeze strength. The attacker also has the cylinder fluting assisting them by acting gripping sites where they can get extra purchase and wedge their grip into the upper and lower strap even further preventing the shooter from overpowering it. Finally, these competing forces would put large and atypical stresses on the internal parts of the revolver, greatly increasing the chance of damaging the internal parts such as the cylinder hand/pall which would render the gun inoperable or unsafe.

I can't say I've tested the SP-101 specifically, but in testing with a GP-100, zero out of three "shooter" testers could overpower the same pool of "attacker" testers. This was a test under ideal attacker (worst-case shooter) situation.

Is this a realistic test? Not really. The attacker would have to be knowledgeable and swift to pull it off, and the shooter would have to have failed many other tests of situational awareness and defensive spacing for this to happen, an unfluted cylinder with a polished and/or oiled surface could further complicate the strategy, but it is sound "attacker" strategy in theory.

I'm not naysaying carrying a revolver over a semi-auto though, just sharing information. An attacker could theoretically pull off a similar feat against a semi-auto by pushing the slide back and gripping the slide/frame together to keep the slide bound to the rear.

I just find this kinda stuff interesting. In other "don't try this at home" self defense tactics and gun mechanics, it's pretty interesting how surprisingly easy it is to keep a semi-auto from cycling during firing by gripping the slide and frame or even by holding the slide closed by pressing your thumbs against the rear of the slide. STRONG emphasis on "don't try this at home" by the way, but there are fun youtube videos about it.

I had the same results with an SP101. I think If I had oiled the cylinder the results would be very different, but I was able to stop the cylinder from rotating on a gun that looked just like the one in this picture:

your gona have to have hands of a Ninja Master to stop this cylinder
that's polished stainless steel

View attachment 1230298

I'd hate to be wrong though, because if that thing goes off, you're losing some fingers. Better than being killed, but still. Also, sweat or water would probably make things difficult. I would think that the better plan would be to shoot the prick before he gets his hand on the gun, no matter what you're carrying.

 

[40Garand]

I assume it stopped it from severely injuring him. It probably still hurt.

It must not have hurt him to bad. He took to Twitter to suck up some quick fame and social media affection.

 

[rjmt]

I had the same results with an SP101. I think If I had oiled the cylinder the results would be very different, but I was able to stop the cylinder from rotating on a gun that looked just like the one in this picture:


I'd hate to be wrong though, because if that thing goes off, you're losing some fingers. Better than being killed, but still. Also, sweat or water would probably make things difficult. I would think that the better plan would be to shoot the prick before he gets his hand on the gun, no matter what you're carrying.

I've had a 9mm go through my hand before
not a Man Stopper, but it's very distracting
they had to sew 2 fingers back on

 

[rjmt]

I had the same results with an SP101. I think If I had oiled the cylinder the results would be very different, but I was able to stop the cylinder from rotating on a gun that looked just like the one in this picture:


I'd hate to be wrong though, because if that thing goes off, you're losing some fingers. Better than being killed, but still. Also, sweat or water would probably make things difficult. I would think that the better plan would be to shoot the prick before he gets his hand on the gun, no matter what you're carrying.

please explain your circumstances of your test with a Ruger SP101
I have not been able to duplicate your results with my revolver
"oiled the cylinder"? are your revolvers stored dried?
I keep my grips dry, but I put a light coating of oil all over the revolver due to long periods of storage
did you use a bare hand or a gloved hand? did you allow the person attempting to restrain the revolver the time to get a perfect firm grip or just have them walk up and attempt to grab your revolver before you pulled the trigger?
I'm curious
I had my son walk up and attempt to rapidly grab the Sp101 and retain the cylinder and he couldn't do it before I pulled the trigger
again, loaded with snap caps

 

[Flopsweat]

I've had a 9mm go through my hand before
not a Man Stopper, but it's very distracting
they had to sew 2 fingers back on

View attachment 1230393 View attachment 1230394

That looks painful. Hope your hand is working well now.

Also bear in mind that the blast from the gap between the cylinder and the forcing cone is enough to cut digits off.

 

[Flopsweat]

please explain your circumstances of your test with a Ruger SP101
I have not been able to duplicate your results with my revolver
"oiled the cylinder"? are your revolvers stored dried?
I keep my grips dry, but I put a light coating of oil all over the revolver due to long periods of storage
did you use a bare hand or a gloved hand? did you allow the person attempting to restrain the revolver the time to get a perfect firm grip or just have them walk up and attempt to grab your revolver before you pulled the trigger?
I'm curious
I had my son walk up and attempt to rapidly grab the Sp101 and retain the cylinder and he couldn't do it before I pulled the trigger
again, loaded with snap caps

It was not my gun. Another person took a single-handed grip on the gun, pointed it in a safe direction, then I stood facing them, off to the side with direct access via my strong hand. I quickly grabbed the barrel and cylinder, thumb in one flute and two fingers against the other. He was unable to rotate the cylinder with the trigger. He's bigger than me and I assume stronger.

 

[Alexx1401]

I brought this up during the Portland riots, open carry does not discourage volant people in Portland,
it just agitates them to attack you and attempt to take your firearm
they have no fear of bodily harm or even death

There is a HUGE difference between the pantifa crowd and the mentally ill who are often on drugs. The pantifa act VERY tough until one of them gets shot. Then they all run screaming for the Police to arrest the person who shot them. Many of the really methed up nuts will run at a gun even after shot. The pantifa are also only brave if they outnumber the people they want to attack. When odds change and they start getting a beat down they scream for the Police, who they claim to hate, to help them.

 

[solv3nt]

That looks painful. Hope your hand is working well now.

Also bear in mind that the blast from the gap between the cylinder and the forcing cone is enough to cut digits off.

I know that's definitely true with the 500SW, I saw a video of someone cutting a big carrot in half. I wonder how that works with the smaller calibers.

 

[Yarome]

I think it's all pretty academic. If my hand is moving toward your handgun, it isn't to try and prevent cyclinder rotation, knocking it out of battery, or trying to prevent a hammer fall. I'm not smart enough to process firearm type, disabling technique and plan of implementation fast enough. I certainly wouldn't have practiced enough on all the various type handguns to have any sense of proficiency or confidence in a tactic like that.

For military training, when you will face only a limited number of enemy issued handgun types, and nearly all are of the same make, model, and configuration, that's maybe more viable, however, that won't "play" on the streets.

If my hand is moving toward your handgun, it's to deflect the muzzle from my direction while pulling you closer for a throat, nose, or other strike. While disoriented, I now have time and options to exploit on my side.

Just sayin.....