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Portland OR VA threatens to take guns from Disabled Vets

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Cliph, Sep 26, 2009.

  1. Cliph

    Cliph Eugene Member

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    Portland Regional Office is sending notice to local Disabled Veterans threatening to use The Brady Bill to take away 2nd Amendment Rights. It works like this: Every Disabled Veteran is evaluated for their competency to manage their VA Benefit check. This "evaluation" is done in each and every Compensation Examination without directly asking the Veteran any questions. Or if the Veteran states that their spouse "pays all the bills" because "I was never very good paperwork". The presumption is that every Veteran is NOT compentent and when notified later that such a ruling is "proposed", it is the burden of the Veteran to prove otherwise. The Veteran is notified in the same letter that, if caught possessing any firearm, such a Veteran is committing a Federal Felony and could be sent to jail. "Innocent until proven guilty" is turned on its head! Currently two resolutions are under consideration to stop this. No one from the Northwest Congressional delegations is listed as a Co-sponsor. Shall we call call this to their attention?

    In the House: H.R.2547 In the Senate S. 660
     
  2. Cliph

    Cliph Eugene Member

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    That should be S. 669! Sorry for the typo.
     
  3. jordanvraptor

    jordanvraptor Oregon City, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    This is the summary of the bills you cited.

    6/16/2009--Reported to Senate without amendment. (This measure has not been amended since it was introduced. The summary of that version is repeated here.) Veterans 2nd Amendment Protection Act - Prohibits, in any case arising out of the administration of laws and benefits by the Secretary of Veterans Affairs (VA), considering any person who is mentally incapacitated, deemed mentally incompetent, or experiencing an extended loss of consciousness from being considered adjudicated as a mental defective for purposes of the right to receive or transport firearms without the order or finding of a judge, magistrate, or other judicial authority of competent jurisdiction that such person is a danger to himself or herself or others.

    What is your source for your claim about compensation examination?

    I am a disabled veteran and have heard nothing of this and haven't recieved any letter or been through any type of compensation evaluation.

    Give me some sources and I will get Sierra Hotel on it.
     
  4. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    Interesting!
     
  5. Cliph

    Cliph Eugene Member

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    I saw it on the letter received by a VN Vet who is rated 70% SCD for gunshot wounds and PTSD. With Individual Unemployability (IU), he is paid at 100% rate. He had asked to be upgraded to 100% so his widow would be eligible to receive a small pension until she died, if he preceded her in death. That's all he wanted, to help his wife in the event of his death. The examiner, who is a contractor hired by the VA and is notorious formaking errors in her examinations, apparently said in her report that he was NOT competent to handle his VA benefits and would need to have a fiduciary. That letter went on to say that if found that he needed a fiduciary, it would trigger the Brady Act and he would not be permitted to own any firearms. You can guess what such a letter does to a man who has been found to have a disabling anxiety disorder (PTSD). He was sane enough to go to Vietnam and carry a loaded fully automatic rifle, but now he's not sane enough to own his Dad's hunting rifle. Amazing what power 1 psychologist has over the Constution.
     
  6. jordanvraptor

    jordanvraptor Oregon City, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    The law that enables this does provide for medical records to be delivered to the National Instant Checks System. It theoretically provides for relief but I could see how it could be interpreted to deny firearms ownership. The law was HR 2640. I wonder what the fine line is between being 100 percent disabled/unemployable and being mentally incompetent/unable to handle your own affairs? Granted a diagnosis of PTSD or Depression is the key to the mental health flag and without that there would be no problems for say an amputee who is 100 percent service connected with unemployability.

    I guess if a veteran is applying for 100 percent due to PTSD, it is not a large leap to decide that if he/she is so messed up mentally that they cannot work and must be supported financially by the government, then that fits into mentally incompetent to manage your own affairs as specified in Form 4473. It comes down to money or guns for some cases I guess. On the upside, Airsofts are pretty cool nowadays...:)

    Oh, for those who don't know, 100 percent VA disability payments are from $2,600 to $3,000 per month depending on number of dependents. Tax free...
     
  7. dario541

    dario541 medford, or 97504 Member

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    It has been said that Janet Napolitano, the head of Homeland Security, considers veterans and GI's returning from the war as threats to national security. Is this more of that policy??
     
  8. terrylf72

    terrylf72 Portland, Oregon, United States Member

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    More governement :horse:. Everyday there is something new that they want to do to infringe on more of us and to restrick who, what, where, when why and how we go about doing things. I guess i will have to inform my buddy who gets a VA check for his disability that he may be considered mentaly inapt to have his weapons collection.. And all he did was crushed both anckles on his first jump.
     
  9. Cliph

    Cliph Eugene Member

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    Jordanraptor,

    The 100% rating does not mean a Veteran can not work. I had a boss who was 100% disabled and he worked me into the ground, though he was 3 years younger. (G). The Individual Unemployability (IU) rating, means that the Disabled Veteran can do no "substantial work" and pays the same amount of money. The leap of logic that a Vet who is bad with money is therefore not safe with a firearm, even an old muzzle loader that belonged to his Greatgrandpa is untenable. The Court of Veterans Appeals has held that a drug addicted schizophrenic 100 % Disabled Vet was capaable of managing his own funds after the appeal of a Regional Office's decision that he was not.

    In the real world, to be found incompetent requires a hearing before a judge with witnesses testifying. However, for our Veterans, many of who have survived multiple combat tours and never pointed a weapon at anyone who did not need killing, a young, just out of college, not board certified Psychologist could terminate their Second Amendment rights.

    Usually those on shooting rampages are not combat Vets. They go into a confined space and spray bullets everywhere killing scores of unarmed people who have no means of escape. No military trained shooter does that. Tim McVey who was executed for blowing up the Federal Building in Oklahoma City was a Combat Vet. I think the VA would do better to forbid Disabled Veterans to possess fuel oil and fertilizer, or in the most recent case of WMDs, fingernail polish remover or hair bleach.
     
  10. Oldfart

    Oldfart Portland Member

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    For any who might be interested, this is a direct result of the cooperation between Chuck Shumer, Carolyn McCarthy and the NRA.
     
  11. eriknemily

    eriknemily Tillamook County (Cheese!) Member

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    Fighting for bi-partisanship nonetheless!!!
     
  12. Cliph

    Cliph Eugene Member

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    Oldfart,

    I assume you are talking about the two resolutions as being created by cooperation of Chuck Schumer, Carolyn McCarthy and the NRA. Do you know if your Congressional delegation is supporting them?
     
  13. Oldfart

    Oldfart Portland Member

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    Cliph, this is a result of the "NICS Improvement Act" passed last year. I wasn't aware the NRA was back in bed with Schumer and McCarthy again. I'm real sorry to be a paying member of the NRA. I think I might just change that little item. GOA may not have the clout the NRA does but at least it doesn't compromise. Somewhere along the line we have to stand for our principles. I guess it's time I did.
     
  14. Cliph

    Cliph Eugene Member

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    I composed a letter to my Congressman today and I'll mail it tomorrow. The Brady Handgun Violence Protection Act must have changed in the past few years. I know another disabled VN Combat Veteran who got a similar notice about 5 years ago, but the prohibition was on purchase of additional weapons only. I am certain that the VA needs to be reined in on this. A single gun hating psychologist could do obviate the Constitutional Rights of a lot of disabled Veterans.
     
  15. Oldfart

    Oldfart Portland Member

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    I was part of a chorus warning the NRA that this sort of thing would happen but they knew better. Since the same people are in charge at the NRA I doubt any similar warnings will do much good now.

    According to what I've heard, the NRA went through a sort of grassroots revolution a number of years ago and a lot of the more staid and reserved officers got to sit out a few years. Since then the structure of the governing board has been changed to keep any such thing from happening again. That's why LaPierre has been in his job so long. It certainly isn't because he's done such a great job of protecting our rights.
     
  16. jimwsea

    jimwsea Vancouver, Washington state Active Member

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    This must already be happening. One veteran I know has recently been visited by the Fed for "home inspection".
     
  17. eriknemily

    eriknemily Tillamook County (Cheese!) Member

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    That's extremely disturbing. Do they get any warning? Is this intrusion...er..inspection scheduled? Perhaps if one knew ahead of time they could simply not own any guns when the communists come to inspect the home;)
     
  18. jimwsea

    jimwsea Vancouver, Washington state Active Member

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    I think so (both questions), but I don't know the details.
     
  19. Cliph

    Cliph Eugene Member

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    I would say the guns you see here are my wife's. (She shoots the pistols better than I anyway.) The problem would be if I got caught fondling a piece, as I would not be allowed to "possess" a firearm. I am not rated as not able to handle my own funds by the VA. I only buy guns and knives with my share of the household income anyway and the range where I shoot has a locked gate, so I ought to be safe.
     
  20. jimwsea

    jimwsea Vancouver, Washington state Active Member

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    They told him "out of the house".

    My take on this: They used to deny the existence of PTSD. Now that it has become common knowledge, they use PTSD as a tool to classify vets as unstable, therefore removing their guns. Now they try to classify as many vets as possible as having PTSD, so they can remove more guns.