Ported vs Non Ported for Carry ?

Discussion in 'Defensive Carry & Self Defense' started by DuneHopper, Apr 9, 2018.

Tags:
  1. AndyinEverson

    AndyinEverson
    Everson, Wa.
    Moderator with a Black powder affinity... Staff Member Silver Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    9,367
    Likes Received:
    45,058
    As pointed out above and shown to great effect in the picture of post #59...ports tend to get "flashy"...which can turn you into a bullet magnet...as well as making it hard for you to see at night or in low light....

    Also speaking for myself , from my experience , and in Captain O's defense...having been in combat a few times...you can have "tunnel vision" , as in seeing only what's in front of you...and at times "see" only what the mind thinks it "sees"...not what is really there...just something to keep in mind....
    Andy
     
    bbbass likes this.
  2. Diamondback

    Diamondback
    Mmm, pizza, CHOMP!
    Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    7,308
    Likes Received:
    15,727
    Not to mention the supercharge of adrenaline-dump...
     
    bbbass, AndyinEverson and Kruel J like this.
  3. Kruel J

    Kruel J
    Orygun
    Moderator of the Coriolis effect Staff Member Lifetime Supporter Gold Supporter Silver Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    10,841
    Likes Received:
    36,549
    When we practice silhouette drills and such, we train to NOT have tunnel vision because yes, it's a real thing. And it's hard to train yourself to be aware of your surroundings and not just the target in front of you. I too have held someone at gunpoint. Hammer back, trigger staged. Yeah, lots of things going on and yep, tunnel vision.
     
    bbbass and AndyinEverson like this.
  4. Captain O

    Captain O
    St. Helens, OR
    Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    4,001
    Likes Received:
    7,874
    I'll confess I was "scared to death" and adrenaline dump had me shaking like a dog eliminating razor blades. I wasn't having a good time and the uniformed police officers that were my "backup" were helping me clear the Sunshine Dairy in Portland when the local "Animal Rights" idiots were vandalizing the place. I was an Armed Security Officer and it resulted in a ream of paperwork and a fool that barely missed being shot by yours truly.

    Yep, I was nervous as hell.
     
    bbbass likes this.
  5. Tangent123123

    Tangent123123
    Battle Ground
    Gold Supporter Gold Supporter

    Messages:
    390
    Likes Received:
    648
    I have the M&P Performance Center with the ports and to be 100% honest, I don't find much of a difference between mine and the standard shield. Maybe I'm not a skilled enough shooter, but I don't notice much of a decrease in muzzle rise nor do I notice a ton of extra flash. But I don't go shooting in the dead of night or rolling around in the sand with it either.

    The main reason I purchased the Performance Center is that's it came with a nice trigger and the better sights straight out of the box. The porting also looks really nice.

    Here is a side by side. You can see the difference in slow motion:
     
    Eric in Oregon, Cameron72 and bbbass like this.
  6. jlhopwo

    jlhopwo
    Portland, OR
    Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    165
    Likes Received:
    281
    Prosecutor: “So Joe-Bob, please tell the jury where you bought this specialized assassination weapon.”
     
    EPS, DuneHopper, mkwerx and 1 other person like this.
  7. Decoy

    Decoy
    Gorge
    Active Member

    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    233
    Ok I will give my two cents worth.

    First of all compensation gained from popper holes is fractional where a compensator with side walls will reduce recoil. Based on the speed and pressure of the gas unless the holes have a hybrid design (10 degree angle on the hole) the gases can not escape fast enough to relieve the pressure, like pushing turds in a tunnel. When you blow up a ballon the air expands out, not straight.

    Compensators have walled areas that the gas hits and thereby drives the gun forward and the gas then is directed up,which helps keep the muzzle down. The larger walled area the greater the compensation, the only flat area in the holes are the tangent of the hole which is a small area. The flat areas in effect attempts to netrualize the recoil so you turn you enemy gas into a helper gas.

    Magnaporting on the revolvers is more effective than a straight hole since they are a elongated hole with more area.

    Compensated barrels like the Schuemann HYComp have two compensators machined internal to the barrel and do significantly reduce recoil. They add flash but I train at night with it and do not notice it. They are louder but a little ringing in the ears is a easy trade for the increased split times I see with this setup which could give me the time needed to walk away in one piece. They also have a ribbed barrel that your front site mounts on which reduces muzzle flip (weight on the barrel not the slide) and since the sight rises like a revolver it doesn't leave your focus plane.

    As far as I am concerned the popple holes are only good for making your gun dirty Some people believe in them so if you are in that category then go for it, it can't hurt and do what makes you feel comfortable by all means. They do reduce the gas leaving the muzzle which does help, hot gas hitting cold air. Every action has a equal and opposite reaction.

    Do you need compensation?

    Well that depends on your shooting ability, have you shot enough that it will make a difference? Being a competitive shooter I put a timer on my my splits and determined for me if it makes sense.

    You do need a high enough power factor on your loads to drive a comp. When I shoot 3 gun with my comp gun the required power factor for 9mm is 125 but in order to drive my comp I load it at a 148 power factor and it shoots flatter than the minor loads.

    Used to shoot completions at night when I lived in Florida and never noticed the flash unless it was from someone else's gun. I think it is a advantage in a self defense situation. Kinda like a flash bang if you aren't expecting it, pretty sure it will freeze most thugs in their tracks.

    When I am doing training classes I always ask "What's the best gun for self defense?" I have gotten a truck load of answers based on opinion. One old lady got it right, she said her 8" 44 mag. I asked her why and she said because she learned on that gun and it's what she shoots best! Putting rounds on the target is your first priority, how accurate, how fast, how big of holes, how scary or impressive the gun looks are all secondary.

    Sights are not as important in most defensive shoots as your trigger control and trigger break is. If you don't practice, it doesn't matter where your sights started at, if you don't control the trigger they will move. Practice your draw and mechanics and you can shoot 18 x 24 plates without using your sights from 8 to 25 yards.

    So to sum it up, I tell folks to spend money on ammo, practice and instruction and use what you are most comfortable with. Once you are smoking the hole look to improve your equipment when it makes sense.

    Not in any means trying to offend anyone but these are the facts as I know them. Like I said, my two well maybe 30 cents worth
     
    bbbass and edzz like this.
  8. Edward Hull

    Edward Hull
    WA
    New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    7
    The derp is strong in this forum. Decoy makes solid points as does Taco_lean :s0101:

    Comps or ports work really good, especially when paired with ammo that has plenty of gas to work with such as is commonly found loaded in defensive ammo.

    Props to those that have pointed out that massive fireballs come out of the front end of the gun no matter what you do and there are ways to learn to deal with this reality. I also tip my hat at those that point out the opportunity for lint and debris to accumulate in the holes. I just checked all the holes in the front of my gun...no lint, no debris. Not sure what this proves, but I appreciate the call for inspecting your carry gear on the regular.

    Public safety tip - use a really bright light at night so you can Positively Identify (PID) your target and what is beyond it. +10hp for not shooting a family member on a late night walk about in your house, a homeless veteran asking for loose change, or an elderly lady with Alzheimer's just trying to find her home.

    Pro tip - it is night 1/2 the time all the time. If you are only prepared for daytime violence you are behind the power curve and inviting failure during a critical situation. This is the same as surrendering at the outset of the fight because you made a conscious decision to not bring the proper tools.

    Side note - it is going to be difficult to explain in both courts (criminal & civil) why you shot a person if you couldn't see while it was dark. The light makes your "night vision" a non-issue, removes the dependence on substandard night sights, ensures PID, and improves the safety of everyone around you. Get one, train with one, and stop fearing the unknown. Then put a comp on your gun and join the 21st century.

    Personal philosophy - I never want to be in a gunfight again, but if it comes down to it I want every possible edge, all the training, multiple unfair advantages, shortcuts, two buddies with all their guns, and six dirty tricks up my sleeve. Comp + light = better.
    Necessary? No. Expensive? Yeah. Better in every possible metric that can be measured? Undeniably.

    Problem solved, problem staying solved :)
     
    bbbass likes this.
  9. bbbass

    bbbass
    La Grande
    Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    5,345
    Likes Received:
    11,526
    I'm not familiar with this... please explain.
     
  10. Decoy

    Decoy
    Gorge
    Active Member

    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    233
    The velocity difference is less than 30 fps between my comp and non comped Aet barrels. Not enough difference in a close combat situation to make a hoot. Being able to put a second, third or more round effectively and quickly does make a difference.

    "vast majority of ......." is a vague and supported agurment in my opinion. I am friends with a lot of quality people and have never heard that type of statement.

    But the reality comes down to personal choice and what works best for your needs, listen to recommendations from people you personally trust and may your decision for yourself.

    Disregard vague and confusing statements. Also remember that there is a HUGE difference between porting and compensation and many people lum them together.

    There is also a huge difference between popper holes that some folks refer to as porting which is not the case. Porting with 10 degree ports is a whole different animal. Confusion is such.
     
  11. SynapticSilence

    SynapticSilence
    Battle Ground, WA
    Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,139
    Likes Received:
    1,346
    I’ve had nonported and ported Shields in both 9mm and .45ACP. There really wasn’t much of a difference between the two except to be able to show the ported ones to someone at the range and say, “Look! Isn’t that cool?” The blast and flash isn’t a problem in regular conditions, but at night it does rob you of a critical few seconds of vision. For what it’s worth, I don’t have any Shields now. With the inprovement in .380 ammo such as the Underwood Extreme Penetrator/Defender series, I’ve gone back to pocket carrying my LCP Custom (the one with the much improved feeling red aluminum trigger that has real and very usable sights that I shoot quite accurately out to 10 yards) with the Underwood ammo. For IWB carry this winter, I’ll initially be carrying my amazing hi-cap (13+1) Beretta 84FS .380, the most reliable and accurate .380 around in my opinion, or my new CZ 75D PCR 9mm once I get it adequately broken in and tested. The LCP Custom was, in my opinion, the ultimate development of the original LCP idea. It has a smooth and very light DA trigger, is the same size and weight as the original LCP, and has sights that allow you to have a real sight picture if you need to shoot at distance. Carrying it with the new Underwood ammo and two extra magazines is completely invisible and is so light it’s unnoticeable to the person carrying it. I should add that I also have a Sig P365. While it’s an amazing pistol, I’ve decided that I just don’t trust it as a carry gun due to the initial teething problems they had out of the factory. Sad. I’m sorry if I went too far afield here. I haven’t had my coffee yet.
     
  12. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki
    Doin Patriot Stuff
    Silver Supporter Silver Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    8,994
    Likes Received:
    34,512
    For pocket/ankle carry as a back up, or a summertime rig, this is my goto! 9 mm full pop 124 gr Golden Sabers, dons't leave me feeling under gunned! And its a 1911 so it matches up with my regular carry pieces with the exact same controls, Grip and Trigger!
    557850748df71fd54175357be9181c33.jpg
     
  13. Rick Shaw

    Rick Shaw
    California- for now
    Silver Supporter Silver Supporter

    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    63
    I also own ported and non-ported handguns. The ported ones sure are fun to shoot, and the recoil reduction and shot to shot reduction in muzzle rise is greatly appreciated.

    For home defense and CCW, I have decided I prefer non-ported.

    While at the range, I generally have fun in daylight stand up shooting on steel or indoors standing positions. I may incorporate movement, cover, kneeling, etc. But I will always have hearing and eye protection on.

    For home defense or CCW, more likely than not I won’t have hearing or eye protection. I may or may not have control over lighting, and I may or may not be shooting while standing with the pistol at full extension.

    So, while I greatly appreciate the benefit of reduced muzzle flip and increased shot to shot recovery, I would be concerned about hot burning gasses and the fireball of port flash being directed toward my face in the event I’m forced to use my pistol close to my body. Especially the risk of throwing hot unburnt powder into my eyes from a “speed rock” (hip) position or close in weapon retention firing position. I’ve certainly tried a variety of shooting positions with ported handguns before coming to my decision. I have ported Glocks, a ported Colt Officers, ported S&W Mdl 66 and a ported Ruger Super Redhawk.

    Anyone else might be totally comfortable with it, and I totally support that. It’s all about your comfort zone. For me though, I am perfectly happy to just use ported pistols and revolvers on the range.

    For carry or home D, non-ported is my personal choice.

    Rick Shaw
     

Share This Page