Portable Water Pump<>Trash Pump<>High Volume<>Variable Pressure<>Tankless Source

[2A2Dend]

I'm hopeful others who live in similar self-sufficiency means respond to my topic.
Please share your thoughts and input.
Thank You

We live a ways out from emergency services if there is a fire. That time it takes for fire crews to respond could be crucial to getting a fire under control. Due to the area we live, there are no fire hydrants as a water source. When fire crews arrive, water is on-board what they arrive in. The next best source for the need, would be a pond, lake, or stream where a portable (trash pump) pump could be used by dropping a feed line in and pressurize.

Keeping it simple
This same process (noted in bold above) to acquire water is what I plan to do as a back-up method for my property. For piece of mind and suggestion, I thought to start this topic, in hopes of input from others that have already established, what I plan to do.

We have a large stream running through our property, with a good supply of water year round. My plan is to buy a portable trash pump on a wheeled cart. I'll get enough hose to extend a 25ft distance, that drops in grade 15-18ft. Priming the pump from that distance, UP a grade, may be a chore. I'm hopeful people in a similar situation will share their problems and solutions if any.

Continuing on after water is flowing from the pump
At this stage I want to regulate, pressurize, and step down the hose to garden hose diameter, with minimum of 90lbs of pressure. Having the ability to increase pressure would be nice.

Note: A storage tank is not a concern at this time.

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[The Heretic]

There is a difference between trash/salvage pumps used to remove water and pumps used to provide pressure for fire fighting. Not sure if there is a pump that will do both as one is made to handle trash/etc. and move volumes of water and the other is usually not made to handle trash/etc. and provides pressure.

 

[2A2Dend]

I'm currently researching the need. Thanks for the response, as I need as much input as I can get at this point.
During the calm parts of the year (like any stream) the water runs clear. Winter time comes, and the typical brown water from run-off is the flow. I planned a collection basin of some sort set in the creek. Something screened to keep out the leaves and sticks. Winter time will need debris cleaning. As you mention, and given my use scenario, I wasn't sure a trash pump would be what I want, so your input here is appreciated.

For something high pressure, is this the direction I should be heading? Honda WH20 Model Info | 2" High Pressure Water Pump | Honda Pumps
I'd like to go higher pressure yet if it doesn't break the bank to get there.

 

[WAYNO]

I've got a lot of experience with trash pumps. As said, lots of volume but little pressure. Also very little lift.

Two ways to get around this...A trash pump to lift the water to a sump for a high pressure pump, or a high pressure pump exclusively, with a non-restricting filtered and/or screened inlet. When I say high pressure, it's really not. Maybe 70 lbs.

Here's one example...

Home Firefighting Pump System

Because I've used so many of these pumps, I know from experience they can be fickle. They aren't operated regularly or often, so poor (everything you get from the local gas station) gasoline can plug or otherwise damage the carburetor and fuel system if you don't keep them drained or test operated often. They can be a real bee-otch to prime. When the snorkel leaves the water even for just a few seconds it can cause loss of prime. Without a water hose to replenish the prime, buckets of priming water must be used for pump priming, and it doesn't always work as fast as you'd like. Multiple attempts are often required to get the pump running again. Time is of the essence when using such a system to fight an incipient fire, so more money spent on a good piece of equipment is money well spent.

I don't want to sound like a snob, but I've used a few Harbor Freight and similar quality pumps. We fiddled with them constantly, getting them started, keeping them running, and keeping them primed. On a construction-type job, or for general water transfer, you can afford the time to do whatever it takes. During a fire, seconds count.

 

[2A2Dend]

Thanks for the input, Wayno.
Since my posting of the need, I've been bouncing all over the net. Seems, my not wanting to have a supply tank lingers in. One approach I had on the back burner, but it's not necessarily something I "want" to do. For many years, I've had generators on the ready. Every couple months I fire it up to let in flush the gumout (pun intended) I've never added any additives, or drained the tank for fear of the seals drying out. Same situation on the rider mower. That's sat every season, full of gas, and has fired up no problem for 17 years. May be where you get your gas? Just a thought. My tractors, same scenario sitting, and no problems. Course, I drain the bowls on them.

The Home Pump Firefighting System, that's similar to what I was wanting to put together. Imagine that. LOL. I like the convenience on first thought as a package deal, however, I'm not sold on that particular kit. I like to buy quality. Once. In hopes to have something that can be relied on for many years down the road. Mainly for piece of mind, considering the need, I follow your logic.

The Trash Pumps, I've dealt with over the years. When they work, they work, When they don't, that's when the dang things are needed most. Fickle is the mild term. PITA is more fitting. I leave the sledge hammer alone, but have been tempted with the axe.

 

[The Heretic]

A lot depends on the scenario.

When I retire and move further out, I have thought about getting something on a trailer or a skid to haul around behind a truck. If you have a tractor, especially if it is 4x4, and it has a PTO, consider something like an irrigation pump driven by the PTO on the tractor. These are often used with water from ditches/etc. - but will probably require considerable horsepower, so you will have to match it well with your tractor.

 

[techiej]

Put up one or more multi-thousand gallon storage tanks and fill them from your stream and/or rain water (filtered to keep debris out). You can then either gravity or pressure pump from these to your fire hose.

When we had property in a dry climate we had about 10,000 gallons that were filled from a deep well and used it for both our primary water supply and for fire fighting needs (was required by code). Tank was refilled when levels dropped by 1/4 (float switch). Since we used it for our primary supply we had an ozone system to sterilize the water supply (came with a large filter as well) and a final sediment filter to the house.

Personally I would run the pump (no matter what solution you pick) on electricity and have a good, well maintained generator. That way the genny will get regular use around the property and will be available for the water pumping when needed. Running the genny regularly is the best way to ensure that it will run when you need it - applies to any gas engine.

FWIW - we had a 15Kw genny (run by a 20HP gas engine-Honda) that was set-up to run the house (partioned) via transfer switches. One of these was for the water system. During a major fire back in '02/'03 we had to use the genny for our electrical needs for about 2 weeks straight.

 

[WAYNO]

May be where you get your gas? Just a thought. My tractors, same scenario sitting, and no problems. Course, I drain the bowls on them.
.

I'm sure we get our gas at the same place, and I'm glad your tractors are tolerant of benzene and alcohol. My Kohler and Honda equipment is not. I stand by what I said. I would not leave modern gasoline in any small engine equipment for an extended period without operating the equipment periodically, and/or as you said, draining the bowl. Especially in fire fighting equipment.

 

[2A2Dend]

The tractors I have are the small vintage green/yellow garden type. Not something I want to use.

I thought about a water storage tank years ago for the gravity feed. Having a smallish piece of property, I decided against it.
Currently, the pump system is more appealing without the eyesore of a tank in the way.

 

[Heyjoe]

Don't have much to add except:
Yes. Fuel should be ethanol free where available and treated for said If unavailable.
Modern carburetors are made of cheese d!ck pot metal so special attention to fuel and system should be made.

 

[HB of CJ]

Fire Suppression ... Water ... Rural ... Remote ... Homestead ...Pumps ... Objective ...

There is a magic gadget called a turbo draft or turbo something that is a pressurized water fed drafting inductor. Like magic. You pump 500 gpm @100 psi into the thing and it gives your twice the amount of water out. You are also no longer restricted by the naggy drafting lift limit. I have no experience with this magic gadget. Only what I have heard.

You can start with a fire pump. A glance at the pump body tells you if it is a low pressure high volume trash pump or if it is a precise high pressure low volume FIRE PUMP. Easy to learn up on this. I have NOT learned up on the TURBO JET or whatever it is called. I should know more but I do not. Retired. The pump is the heart of your fire system.

The bigger the pump the better, but only to a point. You do not want to over exceed your water source. What you can do is make contact with the local fire department and just talk a bit. A cup of coffee works. Also at times a paid for lunch. I have forgotten most of what I knew. Your local fire department WILL KNOW. Exploit that expert source.

If you are serious expect to pay out some bucks. You can buy used. We did. Pump, trailer, hose, tanks, nozzles. All buy able used.

Retired fire service.

 

[The Heretic]

Not sure how a pump can output more water than is input. Bump up pressure? Sure. Volume. No.

 

[2A2Dend]

Fire Suppression ... Water ... Rural ... Remote ... Homestead ...Pumps ... Objective ...

There is a magic gadget called a turbo draft or turbo something that is a pressurized water fed drafting inductor. Like magic. You pump 500 gpm @100 psi into the thing and it gives your twice the amount of water out. You are also no longer restricted by the naggy drafting lift limit. I have no experience with this magic gadget. Only what I have heard.

Fascinating.

 

[HB of CJ]

Magic. But it works. Ain't high tech great? Thank you.

 

[The Heretic]

Magic. But it works. Ain't high tech great? Thank you.

Oookay.

 

[The Heretic]

Fascinating.

Oh - okay - we had those in the USCG and I have one sitting on my deck right now to remove the water from the hot tub (bought it at Home Depot for $20). Works with the venturi principle and not high tech - been around for decades if not longer. It does not pump more water out than is pumped into it, just the opposite - you need to use pressurized water to make it work, and it needs another source of water to boot.

It is good for pumping trash water and salvage because there are no moving parts and anything that can go thru the venturi can be pumped, and it can fit most anywhere, but not very efficient, just very convenient and not complicated. Good for something like foam too.