Poor instruction for first time shooters?

[sadiesassy]

PLease do not come to Arizona to show off your skills. PLease stay in the Norwest.

The Sherrif's are cracking down on people shooting at will and endangering people. The Sherrif office is pretty good group to work with.
They just cracked down on a bunch of folks out a popular shooting spot north pf Phoenix.

There is a very nice Ben Avery Range in North Phoenix - you can shoot at - But you have to follow rules.
The trainng center in Paulden is very strict on rules. also spendy.

If you really want desert experience - Stay south of I-8 and I-10. More towards the Yuma side. Or down between Nogales and Sasabe.

All I can say - If you do not like the range rues -
Buy your own range
Get some attorneys and insurnace companies to buy off on your range rules.
Have at it.

 

[JimmyS1985]

Ive always preferred to go out in the wilderness, shooting at bottles and cans is just plain funner than shooting paper targets.

I do think that getting yelled at over something as simple as a trigger guard violation takes all the fun out of shooting. My dad went to the range, and he carried a firearm on him for 15 months in Vietnam and for some reason they were bubblegums to him. They treat even experienced people with guns like they don't know what the f they are doing.

Owell, I wrote a scathing review for their range on yelp.com, and recommended a different range down the highway, thats pretty much all I could do. I went to the competing range down the highway from them, and found it was great, they had a a lot more trust in the shooters to do the right thing but with easily read rules on each booth, but if a shooter broke one of their rules, depending on the severity, they would lightly tap them on the shoulder to remind them, not get on a loud speaker force all shooters to stop shooting, and then get in their face like a drill sergeant and cuss them out.

I still think there should be a balance of customer service at a range, I paid money to have fun, not get bubblegumed out by some stupid buzz cut guy. There are much more dangerous things you can do with a firearm than have a down range, unloaded, open action, magazine out weapon with a non-trigger finger inside the trigger guard.

Ive always had a problem with disrespect, and I felt the guy was disrespectful towards me, and that has a tendency to piss me off, I mean thats just me, If there has always been one thing that can really piss me off its blatant disrespect. Thats just how I am, I don't like being treated like a child, because afterall, I am an adult, and thats how the man came off when he was yelling at me over the loud speaker.

edit: I probably just should of told the man to check his tone when addressing me, since he is talking to an adult, not a child. No need to yell at me or get all pissed off over something like that, and it won't lead to productive conversation on how to improve gun safety, between two men, if one is addressing the other all pissed off. This isn't the military. If it was my dad, ok I could understand, but since its some guy Ive never met before, I just don't take too kindly to being addressed the way I was. Simple rules of communication, and while I may have failed to keep my finger out of the trigger guard, he failed at communicating in a productive manner to get me to realize my mistake without completely offending me.

 

[Burt Gummer]

"Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you are ready to fire."

That one is muscle memory IMO. When I first got back into shooting I got a training Red plastic Glock 17 and Ruger blue 380 off Ebay. I'd lay them around the house and randomly pick them up - correctly, finger straight and out of the trigger guard until it became second nature. With each hand, and then passing the gun back and forth between each hand. Hundreds of times over 3-4 weeks.

I had a bad habit of sticking my finger near the trigger before being ready to fire - I think many years of video games actually did that to me. Very hard muscle memory habit to break. Now it is not a problem. I stayed away from the range, live ammo, people, until I got it right.

We all have a responsibility to be safe around others and I respect the trust that another person has in me to stand next to them and not do something stupid. When I take a beginner to the range I emphasize slowing it down and doing it right.

 

[JimmyS1985]

Well if its any saving grace, I have always been sure to carry my firearm with an open palm without a trigger in the finger guard after it has left the case, until its pointed down range.

My most recent brain fart at the range was after I was done firing off a magazine, I had the gun pointed to the side towards the next booth when I set it down. They didn't yell at me over it, I discreetly turned the gun back down range, but I was afraid someone was going to call me out on it.

The video with the woman I posted in the OP, now thats just plain scary.

Personally if I were to open a gun store, I always wanted to open one with my friend and call it "Crazy Jerry's" after my friend Jere, and have targets that can move side to side so people can practice hitting center mass on a moving target.

 

[bikejunkie]

I do think that getting yelled at over something as simple as a trigger guard violation takes all the fun out of shooting.

You really don't get it do you? Keep your fingers, all of them, straight and off the trigger until you are ready to fire!

if a shooter broke one of their rules, depending on the severity, they would lightly tap them on the shoulder to remind them, not get on a loud speaker force all shooters to stop shooting, and then get in their face like a drill sergeant and cuss them out.

Having some knucklehead walking around with a finger on the trigger and the weapon pointed in all matter of unsafe directions is as severe a range violation that exists. They called you out like that to try and make sure you didn't freaking shoot and kill anybody! they don't know your weapon is unloaded!

There are much more dangerous things you can do with a firearm than have a down range, unloaded, open action, magazine out weapon with a non-trigger finger inside the trigger guard.

The only thing more dangerous is flat out pointing a gun at somebody! why do you think only your trigger finger could be used to fire a weapon?

Ive always had a problem with disrespect, and I felt the guy was disrespectful towards me, and that has a tendency to piss me off, I mean thats just me, If there has always been one thing that can really piss me off its blatant disrespect. Thats just how I am, I don't like being treated like a child, because afterall, I am an adult, and thats how the man came off when he was yelling at me over the loud speaker.

edit: I probably just should of told the man to check his tone when addressing me, since he is talking to an adult, not a child. No need to yell at me or get all pissed off over something like that, and it won't lead to productive conversation on how to improve gun safety, between two men, if one is addressing the other all pissed off. This isn't the military. If it was my dad, ok I could understand, but since its some guy Ive never met before, I just don't take too kindly to being addressed the way I was. Simple rules of communication, and while I may have failed to keep my finger out of the trigger guard, he failed at communicating in a productive manner to get me to realize my mistake without completely offending me.

He likely had the tone he did because you were being reckless with other peoples' lives, and probably your own! I don't know you from Adam, but if I was at a range, and saw you walking around with your goddamn finger on the trigger, you better believe I'm not gonna be very civil and calm because I don't much want to be shot by some dumbass. You need to grow the heck up! Hopefully the overwhelming response on this forum that you were 100% in the wrong will help you to realize you have some serious growing up to do if you want to be involved with firearms

 

[Aero Denezol]

This is not directed at anyone in particular by the way, but some people just have no awareness, coordination, or both... They can barely handle a power drill safely.

I know a guy that's been shooting for decades and he scares me. It's like he can't focus or pay attention on what he's doing... I remember he almost double charged an AR that was having problems, before I grabbed the charging handle from his hands and locked the bolt back. He's done many other things like that, who knows what he does when nobody's around.

Some people are just not ever going to be safe shooters, I am convinced.

 

[hermannr]

What the OP is really showing is why my dad, back when I was a very young kid, taught me with a single shot boys .22 rifle.

He said: "when you have demonstrated proper safety and care with this single shot, then we can talk about using the repeater". My ego was hurt, (that dad did not trust me with the repeater until I demonstrated compitence) but the training was good.

I remember that clearly, even though it was well over 50 years ago.

If you are taking a gun to the range, think about how you would look at someone else, seeing them do what you are doing. If it wouldn't look good to you, it probably does not look good to others. First impressions do count when it comes to gun safety.

 

[DeanfromOregon]

Feels like we're getting trolled here.

 

[Redcap]

Feels like we're getting trolled here.

 

[bikejunkie]

Feels like we're getting trolled here.

I sure hope so, the idea of people like this running around with guns scares the sh!t out of me...

 

[sadiesassy]

Agree

I sure hope so, the idea of people like this running around with guns scares the sh!t out of me...

 

[ScottyB]

Someone admitted that he was not up on gun safety. He tried to be safe and took the following steps: Made sure the gun was unloaded, made sure the safety was on, made sure the slide was locked open, kept the muzzle down range. Everyone is jumping on him because he made the mistake of putting a finger in the trigger guard. Yes, this was a serious breech of safety. How about the range officer that saw the one mistake and didn't see the whole picture? Could he have handled it better? Could he have looked a second time to see that the one unsafe act was not putting anyone in immediate danger?

I understand not wanting to be around people who are not handling guns safely, but many of us have made safety mistakes here and there and been lucky. Some of us learned from our mistake because we were lucky and caught it ourselves. Some had others jump all over them and had the good grace to learn from the mistakes and correction offered. Others had the good fortune to have errors pointed out in a calm reasonable manner.

Most people respond best to the third course of action. When people are yelled at, they become defensive. When they get defensive, they are less likely to accept constructive criticism. The OP was out of line with his response, but it is understandable why he would respond that way. If you are going to correct someone, do so in a way that will do the most good for those around the error, those in error and the shooting community as a whole. Jumping all over someone in this case just creates bad will. His finger on the trigger was not going to harm anyone in this instance. If the range officer could see a finger on the trigger why couldn't he see the gun pointed down range AND the action open?

Some will jump all over me for this, but I think most of the criticism of the OP is overblown. I could throw more criticism that way but I hardly think it is needed at this point. The rest have made his mistakes abundantly clear. How about taking steps to make sure someone like the OP becomes a safe and responsible shooter as opposed to some A-hole with a gun who is mad at everyone.

 

[civilian75]

Several years ago my buddies at work, after they heard I was into guns, got curious and thought it was a good idea to do a group "team building" activity at a handgun range. That day the range was low on range officers and new shooters did not have enough oversight. One of my buddies pulled one like the lady on the video. We all ate dirt and though we'd better not do it again. That that happened even after I spent 1.5 hr on classroom training going thru everything I knew back then. Only problem, it was all head knowledge, but no muscle memory building.

That experience taught me that when teaching someone new to firearms I first have them handle it unloaded. Then I move to snap caps. I have them go thru every step, building muscle memory. Only after I have seen they can be consistently follow all the safety, practices and follow directions, I then let them load a magazine with bullets and let them shoot with it. That's how I did it with my kids, wife, sister and my neighbor's kids.

 

[MountainBear]

Jimmy, it sounds like you couls benefit from a good basic pistol class. It seems like you have a desire to enjoy fireamrs, but you may need some professional help. No shame in it, I take classes aas often as I can.
Also try to remember. If someone yells at you or is hard on you, it's because the item in your hand has the ability to take a human life if not treated properly. That's a serious responsibility, so you need to expect a firm response when you fail to follow the basic rules of gun safety...

 

[JimmyS1985]

Well I haven't made the mistake of putting a finger in the trigger guard since then, but that range embarrassed me enough when I was taking a 100% conscious effort at being as safe as possible and they still came hard as hell down on me, plus the guy wasn't communicating with me very well. As someone pointed out, if you want someone to go into a defensive communication mode, communicate poorly such as being very loud, such as yelling at someone on a loud speaker, and making every shooter on the range stop shooting to point out their f up in front of a crowd of people forcing everyone to stop and listen to the range officer yell about how someone on the range just broke a rule. There is a good chance you will piss the person off, and at that point I would be much more afraid of a purposeful discharge of a firearm by putting someone on tilt (poker term, look it up) than the potential of an accidental discharge from the firearm.



It actually makes me want to go back, break their silliest rule which is semi-automatics have to space shots out every 3 seconds, just to make the guy as mad as he did to me when I tell him I had no intention of staying at the range but to break a rule and leave. Thats a stupid rule, its meant to not scare the kids, rather than any concern about safety. If you want to sight in a bolt action rifle, its a good range. If you are practicing double tap, or 2 in the chest 1 in the head, its a very bad range, I can understand range rules that limit you from practicing quick drawing, but between the loud speaker, the demeanor of the employees towards shooters on the range as if they are some drill sergeant even though its a civilian range, I have no plans on ever going back.

I'm not the first in my family to have a negative opinion of that particular range. While I might warrant some criticism, My dad is a Vietnam Veteran who carried 1 or more chambered and loaded firearms on him for 15 months straight in the middle of a war zone and he hates that range as well. I can understand having a low opinion of me, because I don't have as much experience around guns as a lot of you, but a Veteran of a Foreign War who finds the people at that range to be complete bubblegums should give a little legitimacy to my opinion of the staff at that shooting range.
I think the range is more oriented towards children. I mean its not like they had the rules posted, they briefly went over them and listening retention is much lower than visual retention, this was my first time shooting a handgun in 10 years and expected me to remember each and everyone right off the bat. I had most of the rules followed right off the bat, but without a case I was at a disadvantage for how to carry a firearm down the range.

I think the people at the shooting range could of handled it much better. The head of the shooting range should take a class on human-human communications as badly as I might of needed a basic class on handling of a handgun. I think the fact that I broke a range rule immediately upon paying my $3 shows a lack of good safety instruction on the part of the people at the range, similar to the woman who turned around with the gun in her hand and finger in the trigger guard to have also been an example of poor safety instruction.

In fact I think the range guy, because what I did not tell this part of the story, was when I got to the outskirts of the range, the guy on the loud speaker was initially a bit of an *** to me before walking onto the grounds of the range but I forget about what, was aching to embarrass me in front of all the shooters and then tell me I can't shoot there. I think he gets a hard on to see how badly he can piss people off and then since he has authority, piss them off even more to tell them they can't shoot there or they are banned from the range for life or something, a real sick, twisted troll of a human being. Like I said, with people like that working at a range, I would be more afraid of a purposeful discharge than an accidental discharge.

 

[bikejunkie]

Whah! He yelled at me! Somebody should shoot him because he was mean!

You need to get over yourself. Also, keeping your finger straight and off the trigger until you intend to fire is not limited to handguns- that applies to all weapons