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Polymer Ammo, crazy or revolutionary?

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by blackadder, Sep 23, 2015.

  1. blackadder

    blackadder Everett Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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  2. DieselScout

    DieselScout S Clackamas County Well-Known Member

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    I have read a few articles on it. I really don't see a problem with it and think it's a step forward. I am not sold on its use for defense and I don't believe with current game regulations in Oregon it would be legal for hunting, but for plinking or target ammo bring it on. With injection molding it's faster to produce, which I hope would lead to eventually it being cheaper.

    I do not think it's crazy or revolutionary, FWIW.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2015
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  3. Nick Burkhardt

    Nick Burkhardt NE Oregon Well-Known Member

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    18 rounds or 9mm ARX is sure a lot lighter than 124gr or 147gr jacketed lead hollowpoints.

    They are semi frangible, so not good for use through barriers.
     
  4. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

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    If you think people don't like lead in the environment, get them going on plastic that isn't totally biodegradable in the environment. And if it is biodegradable then the question is how long would it store as ammo?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/23/b...microbeads-used-in-soaps-and-creams.html?_r=0

    I don't see how plastic ammo would work well for anything except plinking or maybe very specialized shooting of varmints, like mice.
     
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  5. Prescott

    Prescott Sherwood, OR New Member

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    Using injection molding to produce bullet is a very accurate and repeatable way to make high precision ammunition. There are a couple down sides to plastic ammunition.

    The first is cost. Lead is pretty cheap and it is easy to form into bullets. The article talks about a copper filled polymer, which is powered copper in a nylon carrier resin. The cost to purchase this compound is going to be $5-$7 per pound. This compound will also only have a specific gravity around 7, whereas lead has a specific gravity of 11. If you want a comparable BC in a plastic bullet, then you need to have the same specific gravity so the bullet has the same sectional density. The lead replacement polymer compounds contain powdered tungsten in a nylon carrier. The cost of this compound is around $20/#. HeviShot shot gun shells use a tungsten filled polymer with a specific gravity of 12, which is why they cost $5.00 per shell.

    The other down side to polymer bullets is expansion. Lead is very malleable metal and this is what allows it to expand nicely upon impact. The filled polymer bullets are very rigid and either penetrate right through the target or fracture and fragment if they hit something hard. The military has tested polymer bullets and they perform well as compared to standard ball ammo. The military is looking at this type of ammo for training at their bases, as they are getting pressure to limit the amount of lead they are putting into their berms. However the budget for ammo did not account for the added cost, so the last I heard this was not going to happen.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2015
  6. bakersman345

    bakersman345 Camas wa Well-Known Member

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    "Ban the plastic bullet, it can get through airports" the anti says

    "Umm you still have to use a a metal case" logical gun owner

    "I'll go to the liberal media and speed lies and propaganda" say the anti

    "People aren't that stupid to think these can go through metal detectors"

    Next week...... ammo is banned.

    Logic doesn't matter. The eco crap is just some bs they spread to get dip bubblegumz on there side. They want all guns and ammo banned entirely no matter how much crap they add from "smart gun", to lead in bullets. That's not the point.

    while we are at it let's go take my private property across town and pay $20, wait a hour, and get stuck in traffic so I can give my buddy a pistol. Hopefully he has a state issued licance to carry or else he will have to wait 10 days.
     
  7. DuneHopper

    DuneHopper Douglas County. Well-Known Member

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    The only issue I can see is high heat or very cold could affect the makeup of the bullet, not sure how to nail the exact words but the changes in temp may weaken the integrity of these types.
    We all know it takes very little to have lead loosen up in a bullet, the concern is the same with this, but polymers why study and used in many instances makes me wonder long term if these are an effective replacement.
     
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  8. thorborg

    thorborg portland oregon Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    This is one cat that will not be going back in the bag.
    Long term; The proliferation and acceptance of this product along with it's upcoming polymer shell mate will pretty much end self sufficient armament. Just try making this stuff in your basement when the politicks have made lead illegal to own because there are "environmentally safer" alternatives.
    Engineering and technical aspect of this are fascinating and exciting just as fission and fusion are but like the latter, where it goes beyond the technologic wonderment especially adding politics produce nightmare visions of a increasingly shredded second amendment, or worse. In 1970 you might get away with calling me paranoid, but I've lived through enough degradation of our beautiful country and bastardising of its laws to recognize the cancer that thrives within.
    The entrepreneurship of the inventers and makers of plastic bullets and shells are to be applauded. I follow their work with excitement and look forward its evolving status. However, evil others will ultimately control its destiny, thus making it bittersweet!
     
  9. blackadder

    blackadder Everett Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I'm actually kind of interested in the possibility of making them in my basement. With the advent of 3D printers all you need is the right compound and you have the capability to make a cleaner product without all the smelting and (potential) lead poisoning. Then of course you bring up the possibility of making casings as well. That makes you even more self sufficient IMO.
     
  10. DuneHopper

    DuneHopper Douglas County. Well-Known Member

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    Your post is dead on, and example slide of hand politics.
    I agree as well technological advances are to be applauded.

    However there are so many examples of good intentions gone wrong.
    I think cell phones were a great invention I remember paying thru the nice for one in 1984
    and it was like 2.75 a minute. It was a great safety feature for any family. The cell phone morphed into
    the so-called smart phone and now people text, tweet, post and never have to look at a person .
    Families in the last 10 years report gatherings have dropped off the face of the earth, not only are Antis trying to teach you you dont need your parents they are teaching you to use tools such are smartphones to 100% avoid family. Some may chuckle but you can most any liberal-anti movement and see it based on family dismantling. Telling you that lead made bullets are harmful is just another lie told to pass more feel good politics. Want to decrease lead in the environment, tell the government whom is exempt in dumping lead. Yes, the Military, BLM and ranger and many many government building all that have lead in their buildings and are disposed of with the exemption that you and I must follow . The government would and does claim harm of lead bullets meanwhile they dump in landfill billions of tons each year uncleaned and unprotected with their exemptions. This is public EPA record that most ignore.
     
  11. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

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    My worry is, this would only be good for low volume fire, low velocity firearms such as pistols.
    With it, you could mold a small micro stamp to the base of it that could remain a partial solid under even the most adverse conditions.. Now you have ammo registration.
    With 3D printers.. This could be a cheaper option than stamping the casings.

    What can this polymer bullet do that my frangibles, HPs, or FMJ cant?
    Until it can preform better than two of those, I dont need it nor want it.
     
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  12. thorborg

    thorborg portland oregon Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    until the power goes out:eek:
     
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  13. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    For some reason this reminds me of this trick I know you can do with hollow-point bullets, an eye dropper, some mercury, and paraffin wax.... o_O
     
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  14. DuneHopper

    DuneHopper Douglas County. Well-Known Member

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    Or cayenne pepper...........:rolleyes:
     
  15. Diamondback

    Diamondback A cold, wet green Hell Well-Known Member

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    Or until they cut off the supply of plastic cartridges you need to feed your SLP...
     
  16. Nick Burkhardt

    Nick Burkhardt NE Oregon Well-Known Member

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  17. Diamondback

    Diamondback A cold, wet green Hell Well-Known Member

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    Well, you still can't do a plastic firing pin or primer, and I'd bet a polymer bolt or slide would still need enough metal infused into it for working mass and density. Net result, all the liberal panty-pissing about "ghost guns that can't be seen by metal detectors" is still a Triceratops-level pile of bullcrap.

    Edit for the obligatory image:
    d6c4791293a08c4d171abcc6dc81b507afd68b4dd26221b6ffd49f16c6092e1c.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2015
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  18. DieselScout

    DieselScout S Clackamas County Well-Known Member

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    What about the Glock 7. I mean if anyone could actually afford it.
     
  19. Diamondback

    Diamondback A cold, wet green Hell Well-Known Member

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    That's one myth I really wanna see Adam & Jamie do some busting on... :D
     
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  20. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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