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Washington Polymer 80 legality in WA state
- Thread Starter coltshooter
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- legality polymer state washington
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As per the Washington state law it is illegal to manufacture, own buy sell loan furnish transport or posses a undetectable firearm or any part designed and intended solely and exclusively for the use in a undetectable firearm the law passed in April of 2019 and is called H.B. 1739!
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Undetectable and untraceable are two separate categories in the new law. Don't mix and match.
From the standpoint of someone with zero knowledge of this little fella, they seem to mean the same thing. A serial number names it detectable.
Undetectable would indicate it not showing up on an airport x-ray or being picked up by a metal detector. The idea was a poorly thought out way to stop 3D printed guns or "undetectable" ghost guns that are all polymer. Untraceable would be there being no paperwork or serial number if one was discarded or lost and later found.
The confusion lies in that the intent of some legislators in voting for this was to stop home made Glock style handguns as well as 80% AR's. They failed to understand the slide on a homemade Glock style polymer gun is still ample enough metal to be "detectable" by x-ray or metal detector.
Some companies selling these now refuse to ship to WA and others simply require a drivers license so that they can "trace it" from them to you and or cover their bubblegum should it be used illicitly.
The confusion lies in that the intent of some legislators in voting for this was to stop home made Glock style handguns as well as 80% AR's. They failed to understand the slide on a homemade Glock style polymer gun is still ample enough metal to be "detectable" by x-ray or metal detector.
Some companies selling these now refuse to ship to WA and others simply require a drivers license so that they can "trace it" from them to you and or cover their bubblegum should it be used illicitly.
ROFL, did the legislature actually look up the metal weight on a slide and roll with that?
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Wrong Cowboy.........undetectable means a 3D printed gun that will not be detected by X-ray scanning. Untraceable means no serial number.
I'm a little confused, won't the slide and all the metal parts show up on an x-ray?
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It's not you that is confused. The legislatures are. On purpose since they a mostly college educated. Not sure about Sheila Jackson and her methods of measuring weight.
Movie magic brought us here. And that movie was aimed at one of them. I say make them prove functional 80% firearms are undetectable. I'm sure they cannot.
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It was written that way because the original ghost gun was a single shot .22lr that was 100% 3D printed with no metal parts. A man named Cody Wilson developed it.
Which was a total waste of time, since there is already a Federal law preventing undetectable firearms
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SS80 will no longer ship to Washington State. Example: (80% unfinished G43 Frame.)
80Pbuilder still ships to Wa. if I read it right.
As far as the law (RCW's) goes..here it is..
If you can decipher all the BS out..Good Luck. The 80P frame looks exactly like the SS80 frame to me.
I read the law (RCW 9.41.190) like this:
(1) Except as otherwise provided in this section, it is unlawful for any person to:
(d) Manufacture an untraceable firearm with the intent to sell the untraceable firearm.
So if there's no intent to sell, there's no law against building one in my opinion. And that opinion is worth nada in the courts! Free advice isn't worth the paper or screen it's printed on.
IF, & that's a big IF, you decide to sell it (already built) in this state, you have two choices.
1. Strip it for parts & destroy the frame.
2. Get a serial number on it thru the ATF. (Let us know how that goes..)
Dan
From the Bill... The bills mean nada per se, what counts is the RCW's.
(32)"Manufacture" means, with respect to a firearm, the fabrication or construction of a firearm.
(33)"Undetectable firearm" means any firearm that is not as detectable as 3.7 ounces of 17-4 PH stainless steel by walk-through metal detectors or magnetometers commonly used at airports or any firearm where the barrel, the slide or cylinder, or the frame or receiver of the firearm would not generate an image that accurately depicts the shape of the part when examined by the types of X-ray machines commonly used at airports.
(34)"Untraceable firearm" means any firearm manufactured after July 1, 2019, that is not an antique firearm and that cannot be traced by law enforcement by means of a serial number affixed to the firearm by a federally licensed manufacturer or importer.
(d) Manufacture an untraceable firearm with the intent to sell the untraceable firearm. It is not unlawful for a person to manufacture, own, buy, sell, loan, furnish, transport, assemble, or repair, or have in possession or under control, a short-barreled rifle, or any part designed or intended solely and exclusively for use in a short barreled rifle or in converting a weapon into a short-barreled rifle, if the person is in compliance with applicable federal law.
80Pbuilder still ships to Wa. if I read it right.
As far as the law (RCW's) goes..here it is..
If you can decipher all the BS out..Good Luck. The 80P frame looks exactly like the SS80 frame to me.
I read the law (RCW 9.41.190) like this:
(1) Except as otherwise provided in this section, it is unlawful for any person to:
(d) Manufacture an untraceable firearm with the intent to sell the untraceable firearm.
So if there's no intent to sell, there's no law against building one in my opinion. And that opinion is worth nada in the courts! Free advice isn't worth the paper or screen it's printed on.
IF, & that's a big IF, you decide to sell it (already built) in this state, you have two choices.
1. Strip it for parts & destroy the frame.
2. Get a serial number on it thru the ATF. (Let us know how that goes..
)Dan
From the Bill... The bills mean nada per se, what counts is the RCW's.
(32)"Manufacture" means, with respect to a firearm, the fabrication or construction of a firearm.
(33)"Undetectable firearm" means any firearm that is not as detectable as 3.7 ounces of 17-4 PH stainless steel by walk-through metal detectors or magnetometers commonly used at airports or any firearm where the barrel, the slide or cylinder, or the frame or receiver of the firearm would not generate an image that accurately depicts the shape of the part when examined by the types of X-ray machines commonly used at airports.
(34)"Untraceable firearm" means any firearm manufactured after July 1, 2019, that is not an antique firearm and that cannot be traced by law enforcement by means of a serial number affixed to the firearm by a federally licensed manufacturer or importer.
(d) Manufacture an untraceable firearm with the intent to sell the untraceable firearm. It is not unlawful for a person to manufacture, own, buy, sell, loan, furnish, transport, assemble, or repair, or have in possession or under control, a short-barreled rifle, or any part designed or intended solely and exclusively for use in a short barreled rifle or in converting a weapon into a short-barreled rifle, if the person is in compliance with applicable federal law.
Let them waste their time....
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Untraceable firearms (non serialized) are illegal to manufacture with intent to sell.
As long as you have no intent to sell it untraceable ( non serialized ) firearms are still legal.
Undetectable firearms are illegal. Yet they already were federally anyways.
In my non lawyer opinion polymer 80s would not be considered as undetectable. My reasoning is as follows.
Serialized polymer 80 frames ( as well as polymer ar lowers ) are still available to purchase at local stores throughout Washington and have no physical or compositional difference to a non serialized polymer frame other than having the holes and channel already drilled and having a serial number. Both versions are made of the same material. If polymer 80s (or polymer ar lowers) were considered undetectable then the serialized version would also be illegal as there is no exception in the law to allow undetectable yet traceable firearms.
Further reasoning for my thinking that they must be still lawful in WA is that you can still purchase the non serialized polymer 80 frames at several ffls currently. If a licensed firearms dealer were selling items considered to be illegal in the state they would be shut down fast. I could give a couple examples that I know of but if I'm completely off base Id rather not blow up a spot needlessly.
Also I do not believe stripped oem glock frames have the 3.7oz of steel necessary permanently in the frame either so if this affected polymer 80s then it would also affect oem glock stripped frames. Feel free to chop your own glock and weigh the rail thats molded into it.
As long as you have no intent to sell it untraceable ( non serialized ) firearms are still legal.
Undetectable firearms are illegal. Yet they already were federally anyways.
In my non lawyer opinion polymer 80s would not be considered as undetectable. My reasoning is as follows.
Serialized polymer 80 frames ( as well as polymer ar lowers ) are still available to purchase at local stores throughout Washington and have no physical or compositional difference to a non serialized polymer frame other than having the holes and channel already drilled and having a serial number. Both versions are made of the same material. If polymer 80s (or polymer ar lowers) were considered undetectable then the serialized version would also be illegal as there is no exception in the law to allow undetectable yet traceable firearms.
Further reasoning for my thinking that they must be still lawful in WA is that you can still purchase the non serialized polymer 80 frames at several ffls currently. If a licensed firearms dealer were selling items considered to be illegal in the state they would be shut down fast. I could give a couple examples that I know of but if I'm completely off base Id rather not blow up a spot needlessly.
Also I do not believe stripped oem glock frames have the 3.7oz of steel necessary permanently in the frame either so if this affected polymer 80s then it would also affect oem glock stripped frames. Feel free to chop your own glock and weigh the rail thats molded into it.
Last Edited:
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A frame alone is not a functioning firearm. I have seen slides made of Titanium and hard coated Aluminum. A barrel with both the LPK and a UPK are far lighter than 3.7 oz Federal standard for undetectability.
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Help me understand plz,
1) in WA is it legal to posses a completed 80% gun that has no serial #?
2) in WA is it legal to posses a completed 80% gun that has a serial number but has never been entered into any government database such as due to background check when doing a transfer?
3) Is Oregon the same in regards to #1 and #2 above?
Thx!
1) in WA is it legal to posses a completed 80% gun that has no serial #?
2) in WA is it legal to posses a completed 80% gun that has a serial number but has never been entered into any government database such as due to background check when doing a transfer?
3) Is Oregon the same in regards to #1 and #2 above?
Thx!
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