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Politics and guns

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by joken, Jan 21, 2013.

  1. joken

    joken Corvallis Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Others here can say this better than I can, but I'll give it a shot. I have read several comments here regarding the Rally in Salem in which the writer didn't want to hear about political BS or religion. Personally, I don't think you can seperate gun rights and political beliefs and here is an example. Can you have a friend who is a gun guy and a liberal? Sure you can if you don't mind him voting for higher taxes or maybe regulations that cost you your job. I could make a very long list, but I think you get what I mean. I have liberal relatives and I can't change that, but I don't have any close friends that are liberal, nor do I want any. I will not compromise my beliefs for personal gain. Ken
     
  2. gearhead

    gearhead NC Active Member

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    While I wasn't at one of the rallies (stuck on duty again) I think that the posts were trying to say that other issues were being brought up that had nothing to do with guns. Everyone has their beliefs, regardless of the faith they do or do not choose. Everyone has a political affiliation, or not. I think they were trying to say that the issue at hand is our 2A rights, and that blaming one organization or another isn't getting us anywhere. Democrats aren't the only ones undermining the second amendment, liberals aren't the only ones, athiests aren't the only ones, etc, etc. If you want to have a pro-(insert random interest or affiliation here) rally, then by all means, go for it. If it is a 2A rally, then stay on topic and leave religion and political parties out of it. There's a proliferation of the "us vs. them" mentality these days, and when our gun rights are placed on one side of that mentality it begins to put us on a slippery slope. Most of my in-laws are what folks might call liberal, but they're not in favor of any new laws infringing on our rights. They're also not Christian. My point being this - its easy to label these days and choose sides, but maybe we ought to be looking at what we have in common with each other rather than how we differ. This doesn't mean compromising beliefs, rather cooperating with our neighbors. an ounce of prevention in the form of education via civilized conversation is worth a pound of cure. just my 2 cents.
     
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  3. DireWolf

    DireWolf Oregon Active Member

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    Very informative post.
     
  4. Suge206

    Suge206 Seattle Active Member

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    i'm a pretty liberal, pro-gun, athiest with lots of conservative, liberal and apolitical friends and business associates. they vary from pro, to anti, to indifferent on guns. why would you want to live in an echo chamber with no differing opinions? have you learned everything in life? no interest in growing? you dont even like a good natured debate over some beers?

    I dont really understand your perspective at all.
     
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  5. Bob D

    Bob D Oregon, Cascades Well-Known Member

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    I also am very "progressive" on a lot of issues. (Abortion, Religion in Politics, Gay Marriage, Labor Unions, some entitlement programs, lessening the 'income gap,' among many others.) I'm also blisteringly conservative on a lot of issues. (Personal Liberties, Personal Privacy, Gun Rights, and Government Spending, among many others.)

    I believe in doing what works best, and that positive results have no political alignment.
    Most right-wingers accuse me of being a communist leftist until I show them my W-2s and my gun collection.
    Most left-wingers accuse me of being a bloodthirsty right-winger until I show them my tax return and my book collection.

    I am not a centrist. I am a realist, an opportunist, a humanist, and a survivalist. Also a bit of a pessimist and an atheist.

    The only people I don't want as friends are people like OP, and his equals on the other side of the fence. When I joined the military, left-wing members of my extended family stopped talking to me. When I quit going to church and came out as an atheist, right-wing members of my extended family stopped talking to me. I haven't missed any of their conversation much.
     
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  6. bolus

    bolus Portland Gold Supporter Gold Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    The tribalism very strong these days. Lack of a common enemy probably drives the need to find one from within.
     
  7. Kimber Custom

    Kimber Custom Vancouver, WA Bronze Vendor Bronze Vendor

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    My wife doesn't understand how I can separate my political from my religious beliefs. As a Christian I do not agree with gay marriage or abortion. As a libertarian I would never vote against either of these things because they interject government into an area of our lives they have no business being in.

    Because of my strong political beliefs it is difficult for me to talk politics with my liberal friends and family. For the most part I can agree to disagree or at least point out how broken both sides are (two wings of the same bird; either way, we get the bird) that is until we get to gun control.

    We gun owners have compromised our way from 'shall not be infringed' to tax stamps, background checks, registrations, inflated prices and licenses. No more. We have already turned our canines into molars and I'm not interested in gumming anything. When push really comes to shove; I'm a one issue voter and that's liberty.
     
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  8. PiratePast40

    PiratePast40 Willamette Valley Well-Known Member

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    I'm also of the opinion that you don't need to embrace 20 other beliefs to have one on 2A rights. If we can't have a cohesive argument that stays on topic, then we're simply confusing the issue. Agree or disagree on abortion but to make it a part of 2A rights is distracting and divisive. I don't agree with all the assertions of the Tea Party and don't feel that the US is being set up for a communist take-over. I also don't feel that the topic has anything to do with gun rights. Same with gay rights. I just don't see how the discussion has anything to do with my 2A rights and resent that it was a part of the rally in salem. There were some speakers, a woman in particular, who just seemed to be using the rally to push her unrelated beliefs. In my opinion, that's just wrong and detracts from our argument.
     
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  9. DireWolf

    DireWolf Oregon Active Member

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    Seriously?!?!?
     
  10. joken

    joken Corvallis Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Looks like I win the minority opinion prize. Ken
     
  11. PiratePast40

    PiratePast40 Willamette Valley Well-Known Member

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    Yes - seriously. The straight/gay school coalition issue was a part of a speech. If you really think it has something to do with how our country is being set up to be overtaken by the communists, then that's fine. But leave it out of the gun rights debate.
     
  12. Suge206

    Suge206 Seattle Active Member

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    You need more data for that graphic to mean anything. You have voting patterns and gun violence but no pop density or actual registered gun owners so your making an assumption that's isn't supported by that data.

    All that shows you is the more people you have, the more they hurt each other.
     
  13. slingshot1943

    slingshot1943 salem or Well-Known Member

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    You libs need to thank conservatives for the fact that you still have gun rights.
     
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  14. Suge206

    Suge206 Seattle Active Member

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    You do now that the Democrat Senate Majority Leader is an NRA member? Not all conservatives are pro gun and not all Dems are anti. Get out of the box.
     
  15. DireWolf

    DireWolf Oregon Active Member

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    Not to mention how the red/blue voting map can be put next to things like education (red areas correspond to lower education levels) and government handouts (red states correspond to higher federal handouts than payments).

    You can compare all sorts of stupid crap with a voting map.

    And good onya for not bringing in confusing, elitist crap like discussing causation vs. correlation. :laugh:
     
  16. slingshot1943

    slingshot1943 salem or Well-Known Member

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    The NRA supporting Harry Reid is the dumbest thing they have ever done. He will help put antigun judges on the SC.
     
  17. Bob D

    Bob D Oregon, Cascades Well-Known Member

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    I'll thank neither libs nor cons for my gun rights, considering that they have both done what they can to sell my rights to the highest bidder. I'll thank George Washington, Samuel Adams, George Mason, Richard Henry Lee...
     
  18. madmax

    madmax woodburn Active Member

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    Most cops are not gun people either. I find it odd as hell but it is what it is
     
  19. Bob D

    Bob D Oregon, Cascades Well-Known Member

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    From the Law Enforcement Alliance of America website:
    Cops Versus Gun Control Main
    "We know, and research backs us up, an overwhelming majority of America’s rank-and-file cops support private ownership of firearms."
     
  20. kumabear17

    kumabear17 Issaquah Active Member

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    Actually when I write my legislators ( and I try to write at least one a day lately) I like to point out to them that maybe they misjudged their own base. It’s true we have hard core people on the Left and the Right, we have hard core Democrats and the same for Republicans, but when gun owners meet at the range or out hunting they are just gun owners and a lot of their philosophical beliefs don’t usually get in the way. That said I will have to admit 90% of my friends are former/active military, law enforcement or rural/farm guys who grew up shooting. I can accept not all Democrats are extreme left-wing Liberals. I just can’t understand why they helped vote us into this mess and then claim they never saw it coming. You would think they would remember 1994, but now they claim they forgot. Kind of hard to accept.
     
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