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Police shootings raise questions

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Dave Workman, Sep 9, 2010.

  1. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Western Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Disturbing questions, public outcry in wake of fatal police shootings

    "Is the public outcry following fatal shootings by police in Seattle and Spokane Valley justified?

    "Because some disturbing questions have arisen in a couple of those cases, the answer is yes, and this column doesn’t take that position lightly...."


    Disturbing questions, public outcry in wake of fatal police shootings - Seattle gun rights | Examiner.com



    Or try this:

    Disturbing questions, public outcry in wake of fatal police shootings - Seattle gun rights | Examiner.com
     
  2. zeppelin

    zeppelin Benton County WA Active Member

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    Yeah, see also Vin Suprynowicz's article "Meet the cops go home in a box" article. at

    Vin Suprynowicz » Blog Archive » Meet the cops, go home in a box

    I am thinking all this goes back to cities and counties in these tough economic times are just not spending the time (read money) to adequately train their officers. At least I hope that is the case. But it seems way too easy for them to shoot first and ask questions (or not) later. And it sure seems that the city and county governments are almost invariably saying these cases are justified without much of an open investigation.
     
  3. zeppelin

    zeppelin Benton County WA Active Member

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    Yeah, see also Vin Suprynowicz's article "Meet the cops go home in a box" article. at

    Vin Suprynowicz » Blog Archive » Meet the cops, go home in a box

    I am thinking all this goes back to cities and counties in these tough economic times are just not spending the time (read money) to adequately train their officers. At least I hope that is the case. But it seems way too easy for them to shoot first and ask questions (or not) later. And it sure seems that the city and county governments are almost invariably saying these cases are justified without much of an open investigation.
     
  4. M.Link

    M.Link Guest

    I don't understand how all these people get shot by the cops. How hard is it to just do what they tell you to? Even if you are in the right, when they have guns pointed at you, that's not the place to argue about it, especially if you have a weapon. If I was a cop and somebody aimed a gun at me or charged me with a knife, I'd shoot, I don't care who it is. I'm not gunna ask questions after I'm shot, stabbed or dead. They are the authorities, they tell you what to do, and it's smart to listin to them. You won't win by fighting them or arguing with them...I just had this conversation with sone dumb girl I went to high school with, complaining about the 3 cops the "murdered" a veteran in Vancouver...
     
  5. matt_w

    matt_w Hillsboro, OR Active Member

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    Not to sound paranoid, but the person that stays alive gets to tell the news reporter what happened. I wouldn't believe everything that you read about each case.
     
  6. kaoboi503

    kaoboi503 Gresham, OR Member

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    Well it's interesting to see the Nevada Costco killing of Erik Scott back on here, since last topic got locked. But what would you do if you had a holstered gun and police told you to "drop it"?
     
  7. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Western Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Oh, where to begin?

    When cops confront an armed citizen, what typically erupts is a screamfest with every officer involved yelling at the individual, and it is impossible to understand what is being yelled. This can be very disorienting and while it may be designed to disorient a suspect, it also has the potential to cause that individual to do something abruptly. Even if one drops the weapon, there is NO guarantee that the armed citizen is not going to get shot, anyway.

    In such a confrontation, police need to adjust their training to have ONE person and ONLY ONE verbally communicating with a suspect.

    Read the column again and read my link to the OP-ED piece I wrote ten years ago in relation to the David Walker shooting in downtown Seattle. I'm not against police but there are evidently some real problems with how they are trained to confront people these days that may need serious re-thinking.

    Just saying.
     
  8. Scott

    Scott Battle Ground Well-Known Member

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    I like the way the police tased a 64 year old cancer man when he tried to get up from his couch because he did not want to go to the hospital and wanted them to leave. If 4 cops can't handle a 64 year old man with cancer and had no weapons this is pretty sad. The really sad part is we don't hear about 90% of these things happening. I know people will disagree with me but that was totally uncalled for.

    Scott
     
  9. zeppelin

    zeppelin Benton County WA Active Member

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    I'm not against police but there are evidently some real problems with how they are trained to confront people these days that may need serious re-thinking.

    Just saying.[/QUOTE]

    Couldn't agree more except my concern is not as much HOW they are being trained, but IF they are being trained. My experience has been in any organization that requires training, when budgets get low training is one of the first things to go out the window.
     
  10. M.Link

    M.Link Guest

    I understand what you all are saying. I don't believe everything I read be ause I wasn't there. Obviously if you shoot someone you are gunna make yourself sound in the right. If I am armed and for some reason a cop confronts me, I will put my hands on my head and explain to them where my weapon is and let them disarm me, it's worked for me a couple times. It's not very hard, even if they are all yelling. They key is to not get yourself into those situations, and if you do, do what they say. I have honestly had 7 cops with guns aimed at me, all yelling at me, when I had a shotgun in the gunrack behind my head and my 1911 in my holster on my belt. I was really pissed off, but I explained to them what all inhad and let them control me. It worked fine. I guess you have to let all of your pride and egos go away when you are dealing with police in that situation.
     
  11. M.Link

    M.Link Guest

    And I also agree that the police are wrong when they taze people that they could easily control. I am in no way saying the police are always right and they are always justified, but people are just idiots when it comes to those times.
     
  12. zeppelin

    zeppelin Benton County WA Active Member

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    One thing that needs to be discussed here is that when you have such shootings the cops end up investigating the incident themselves, which is tantamount to the fox guarding the henhouse. The city and county governments have a definite financial interest in making sure none of their staff (cops) are guilty of an unjustified killing, otherwise they are subject to significant penalties resulting from litigation. One possible way around this is the state could appoint a committee of citizens who don't have a dog in the fight and these folks can properly investigate--perhaps with some guidance from some knowledgeable independent attorneys. Bottom line imo is that its folly to have those departments that were involved in a questionable shooting investigate themselves and the state government needs to get a clue and pass appropriate laws to deal with these situations. The state governments are negligent in not doing so and are therefore party to any miscarriages of justice in this regard.
     
  13. michaels

    michaels oregon Active Member

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    Sometimes, it can be really hard.....
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2010
  14. pokerace

    pokerace Newberg Well-Known Member

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    I question the shoot in Spokane here's a cop that goes on vacation for 9 days before
    making a statement.Like it was no big deal,he shows no remorse,for taking a life.
    These new cops were rained on shoot em up video games.when there done with
    the game they just start a new one.
     
  15. Spad

    Spad Kennewick,WA, the desert side Active Member

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    I think the nay sayers about police shooting should spend a week with a law enforcement officer, remember he does this day in and day out, exposed to the slime of our society most of the time, and when someone has a weapon he confronts, his life is on the line to make a decision, this isn'tthemovies. Todays society seems to be full of pot smokers, someone must be smoking it, people who are not always connected with reality, or don't think rationally anymore, you don't have a weapon and display it around a cop. Some lucky ones don't get shot, but this isn't a Disney or X Box game, this is real, you or him.....better to be judged then carried by six...reading some of the thoughts, get a life, being a cop in todays society is really tough, all the arm chair types, "why didn't you Tazar him" etc...... Spad
     
  16. Scott

    Scott Battle Ground Well-Known Member

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    I would like to take over half the cops to Iraq and spend a year there with me and then let them see what dealing with people is really like. If military had shootings like most police you would be doing life in Levenworth. The cops are over paid and most never pull a gun. If only the military could get a union it would be great. I don't think it is that tough for them and if it is they should get a different job if they can't handle it.
     
  17. MountainBear

    MountainBear Sweet Home, OR Well-Known Member

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    Really? I would probably argue that soliders are underpaid, rather than police officers being overpaid. Any job where you are asked to carry a gun day in and day out to protect other people is a job where I would find it hard to be overpaid. I would also argue that while it is true that most officer's don't ever have to pull their trigger, most will have to draw their gun many times during their career.
    I respect the job that soldiers do. But equal to that, I respect the job that domestic emergency response personnel do. Firefighters, police officers, EMT's all do a job that puts their lives on the line. They deserve the same respect as soldiers, and honestly, the only people I've met who belittle what they do are veterans. I'm not sure I understand that.

    Another question I have is more rhetorical than needing a response. Is the fact that the public's sometimes negative perception of both police and the military (see Abu Graib, waterboarding, etc.) due more to the fact that there is more things to be concerned about than there were 80 years ago, or more due to the fact that the moment something happens, it becomes viral on the internet? I would argue that police are significantly better trained and more ethical today than they were in the past. Not near the corruption that there was in prohibition or in the rise of the drug craze in the 70's. I cannot speak to the military from an insiders perspective as I was turned down when I tried to enlist...
     
  18. Karma

    Karma the woods in Oregon Active Member

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    Is that like when they tazered the old man with cancer? I guess it must have been the 5 cops or him huh?

    The thing is that cops need to protect themselves. The problem is that there is flat out just some a-holes out there with badges. Some people seem to just give cops a pass if they do something wrong and think that all cops are good people. Many are, but there are a lot of people who wear a badge that shouldn't. If they do something wrong and shoot someone that they shouldn't, they should pay for it.
     
  19. Spad

    Spad Kennewick,WA, the desert side Active Member

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    Karma, don't know the whole story about the Tazered old man, but if 5 cops couldn't move him, what gives? Think there is more to the story. At least they didn't shoot him. Scott, ever think the cops here don't deal with the same slime. Just curious what did you do in Iraq? Spad
     
  20. torpedoman

    torpedoman land of corrupt politicians Member

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    becoming quiet common here in Spokane for cops to shoot citizens under very questionable circumstances and get away with it. The latest case a cop was TRESPASSING on private property, when the owner went to investigate he was shot and killed the cop promptly went on vacation the next day and was out of town for a week (try that as a private citizen) came back with a story he can't keep straight , the citizen had a pistol in his waistband and refused to drop it, Not in hand not pointed at cop, in his waistband. 74 year old man cop claimed to hit him with night stick and knock him to his knees, (74 year old people get bruises while putting on their socks) No bruise to support this claim. still refused to drop his gun so he shot him. couple of years ago off duty cop (had a few drinks)shot man in head claimed he was breaking into his truck , no prints on truck to support this, bullet glanced off, chased man through residential neighborhood shooting hit a couple of houses (you would be tried for reckless endangerment at the minimum) got a walk.if this one with the old man gets a walk also it will prove that law enforcement is out of control here.