Police Shooting (Pasco, WA)

[Nick Burkhardt]

From what I can piece together, there were three uses of force against Antonio Zambrano. First the police tried to taze him when he did not drop the rocks. Instead the starts throwing more rocks at the officers. That is when the officer opens fire (with a busy intersection as his backstop)



Then the three officers chase him across the street, you can see the tazer gun dragging behind him. Antonio Zambrano slows down, turns and a two pound rock starts to drop out of his hand when he is shot dead on the sidewalk infront of a bakery.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=22&v=y-0uqFTBclo

 

[BroncoFan]

From what I can piece together, there were three uses of force against Antonio Zambrano. First the police tried to taze him when he did not drop the rocks. Instead the starts throwing more rocks at the officers. That is when the officer opens fire (with a busy intersection as his backstop)

View attachment 255685

Then the three officers chase him across the street, you can see the tazer gun dragging behind him. Antonio Zambrano slows down, turns and a two pound rock starts to drop out of his hand when he is shot dead on the sidewalk infront of a bakery.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=22&v=y-0uqFTBclo

You can discern all that including the weight of the rock? I wonder why the DA did not consult you and the media outlets prior to coming up with his unschooled opinion?

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

No need to get pissy, I am just reporting the outcome. Check the news sites yourself.

<broken link removed>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=957&v=xWgkaxKXrOM

Do I think that Officer Adam Wright was over zealous in chasing and shooting down Antonio Zambrano especially when at least two back-up cars were only a few blocks way? Yes. However, I also think that the conclusion of suicide by cop matches the deceased actions and the evidence.

http://q13fox.com/2015/04/22/report...rmworker-dragged-him-from-fire-weeks-earlier/

 

[BroncoFan]

If I come across as pissy it's only because you and other folks were postulating from the very beginning that the cops executed the pos for "contempt of cop." Those are your words. Even after the DA, going by Washington law, said the officers use of force did not warrant charges. Do you really want a DA with prosecutorial discretion in a use of force situation, or do you want them to follow the law? The officers knew the prior history of the individual and the environment in which they found themselves (prior recent gang shooting at that location). None of us knew the prior history of the individual (frequent flyer, spousal abuser, drug abuser, mentally disturbed with a history of demonstrable contempt of the law), you have an individual who had the ability, the opportunity and was putting the officers and public in jeopardy of deadly force, they went through their force continuum in dealing with him - Presence, verbal, hands on, less lethal, lethal. Unfortunately for everyone they had to use lethal force. As to your screen shot, did it occur to you that maybe officer number 1 was on his game while officer 2 was distracted/clueless? I would submit to you that NO use of force situation will EVER be as clear as projected in the movies or training. It's ugly, it's chaotic, it's messy. If the cops would have retreated and the pos bashed some lady's head in with that 2 pound rock I'm sure there would be many on this forum and elsewhere saying what idiots the officers were. I have never, ever met any LEO that enjoyed the use of force. It just causes a lot of paperwork and most LEOs I know hate paperwork.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

I stand by my statement:

It is pretty clear that the three cops did not have to shoot for "self defense".

The shooting may have been ruled justified, but I think that the City will end up paying the family a million to settle. It would have been cheaper if someone did their job and deported him after the first arrest.

 

[Riot]

View attachment 255610
The cop on the left was in fear for his life; the one on the right, not so much?

He was just dodging the rock (just out of frame). Check the video at the end of your first link.

*edit*

On the bottom video you can see him being chased by him!

 

[Riot]

It is pretty clear that the three cops did not have to shoot for "self defense".

They probably shot him for resisting arrest or "contempt of cop". Note that one of the cops was a firearms instructor. And one of the three officers involved in the shooting was a defendant in a federal civil-rights lawsuit for excessive-force which the city settled for $100,000, according to court records.

I think that these resisting arrest incidents turn deadly because of police ego "You're not getting away from me!"

I've just got out of a lawsuit for discriminating against Native Americans...if I didn't keep the original paperwork (infraction, photos, statements, etc.) he would have probably had been paid (settled out of court). I guess, by your definition, that would make me racist against Native Americans?

The videos clearly show this guy chasing officers and throwing rocks at them...leave your bias at the door before you think you can read a few posts before you can adequately judge a use of force.

<broken link removed>

Click the bottom video...tell me that officer running away wasn't scared...tell me what was going through his head.

If "contempt of cop" still enters your mind, let me know...I haven't added anyone to my ignore list in a while.

 

[DuneHopper]

The only part I can see that has me concerned is the real fast turn the suspect did. I think in my opinion by this point the police may have been adrenaline charged and that fast turn spooked them enough to think a threat. But if the idea is they " only " knew he had a rock then shooting him puzzles this poster seems there was time for a less lethal response still possible.

 

[The B]

This one doesn't seem that controversial to me.. dude was attacking people and cops with deadly weapons (ever read the bible? This is how the Hebrews used to execute people), force continuum was observed, a dude bent on getting shot got shot. If you want a cop to shoot you, it's not too hard with a little effort.

Case closed.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

I guess it depends on if you look at this as one incident: He threw rocks so deadly force was justified. Or as three separate interactions: 1) Antonio Zambrano failed to comply with commands and throws rocks at the first two officers who attempt to taze him, an appropriate use of force. 2) The third officer shows up as Zambrano keeps throwing rocks. The third officer goes right to a lethal response by firing 3-4 shots causing Zambrano to stop throwing rocks and the second officer off camera fires once or twice as Zambrano is running away. Yes, justified.

I think this is where we disagree. Antonio Zambrano had ended his attack, had been hit with one or more bullets and retreated across five lanes of traffic. In the various videos additional police cars can be seen approaching from the north on 10th and the west on Lewis. The three officers run across Lewis Street to capture him, which they should since a crazy person throwing rocks is a danger to the community, however Zambrano had ended his attack and now in my opinion the three officers have lost the ability to claim self defense against the one fleeing suspect. Zambrano slows down and they have him contained as it looks like he is turning to surrender. 3) The three officers fire 12-14 shots into him. They did not have to start shooting him the second time. The only thing that saves the cop's bacon is the independent video analysis by KEPR showing a possible rock being dropped from Zambrano's hand.

<broken link removed>

Add in the benefit of doubt due to adrenaline, tunnel vision and as some of you have stated he was just a POS illegal, and you get no charges filed.

 

[timac]

Antonio Zambrano-Montes was an illegal alien who had previously served jail time for assaulting police.

 

[The B]

Antonio Zambrano-Montes was an illegal alien who had previously served jail time for assaulting police.

You say that as if it has any bearing on whether or not he should be shot dead in the street.

 

[Murphy]

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

 

[No_Regerts]

I can see how at the last second, when he turns with his hands together rather than out to the side with something black in his hand, in a low-light situation..........

 

[223to45]

One illegal down, how many more to go ???

 

[Riot]

I guess it depends on if you look at this as one incident: He threw rocks so deadly force was justified. Or as three separate interactions: 1) Antonio Zambrano failed to comply with commands and throws rocks at the first two officers who attempt to taze him, an appropriate use of force.

This is already a fallacy...just because they attempted to TASER him does not mean that this was an appropriate level of force. The rock is being used as a weapon that can cause grievous bodily harm. Deadly force is authorized to defend yourself or others from the substantial risk of serious bodily injury or death.

You need three things to justify deadly force...

*Intent to do harm
*Opportunity to do harm
*Ability to do harm

If one of these elements was missing...If Mr. Zambrano did not have a rock (ability), was too far away to throw the rock (opportunity) or was not trying to throw the rock (intent) THEN -and only then- would have the defense of oneself or others been unjustified.

TASER use (it is not "taze" since the actual word TASER is an acronym for Thomas A. Swift's Electronic Rifle) is for active, non compliant subjects without a weapon. Look up the Use of Force Continuum sometime before you begin to speak about things you obviously have no idea about.

2) The third officer shows up as Zambrano keeps throwing rocks. The third officer goes right to a lethal response by firing 3-4 shots causing Zambrano to stop throwing rocks and the second officer off camera fires once or twice as Zambrano is running away. Yes, justified.

Actually, when he turns and runs, Lethal force is no longer justified...when they chased him I actually started having an issue with shooting him until I reviewed the videos further and it appears as though he turns, faces them, maintains an aggressive stance and is about to do something with his hands (the videos at this point are very unclear as to what he is actually doing with his hands). But that is where we have to go back to the very recent issues of Totality of Circumstances (prior assault with the rocks, ineffectiveness of the TASER, mental instability or possible intoxication, etc.). He has shown Hostile Intent to cause harm and is still not compiling with any force up to this point. Where you got "contempt of cop" is beyond me...maybe reading one too many anti-cop blogs from "journalists" that also have no idea what the heck they're talking about.

Antonio Zambrano had ended his attack, had been hit with one or more bullets and retreated across five lanes of traffic.

Officers at this point at have no idea if they even hit him. It's easy to analyze a Use of Force when you weren't there and are watching it, after the fact, from a comfy computer chair.

In the various videos additional police cars can be seen approaching from the north on 10th and the west on Lewis. The three officers run across Lewis Street to capture him, which they should since a crazy person throwing rocks is a danger to the community, however Zambrano had ended his attack and now in my opinion the three officers have lost the ability to claim self defense against the one fleeing suspect.

How many times did they shoot him in the back?

Zero.

Zambrano slows down and they have him contained as it looks like he is turning to surrender.

Oh, really?

View attachment 206862

3)

The three officers fire 12-14 shots into him. They did not have to start shooting him the second time. The only thing that saves the cop's bacon is the independent video analysis by KEPR showing a possible rock being dropped from Zambrano's hand.

<broken link removed>

Add in the benefit of doubt due to adrenaline, tunnel vision and as some of you have stated he was just a POS illegal, and you get no charges filed.

Illegal status has no bearing and had no bearing in the decision making process for finding the officers cleared of criminal charges.

Zambrano wanted to die that day and he got his wish. If you still think that these officers were:

Racist
Trigger happy
Unknowledgeable about policy and law
Abused their power
Desired to kill Zambrano

I encourage you to show proof to the matter. Otherwise I think you've said your piece and made your opinions clear as to what you think of these officers and this shooting.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

Riot, thank you for your polite response. You obviously put a lot of thought into it and I want to read it over and digest it when I have enough time before asking follow up questions.

I just want to note that my "shot in the back" statement comes from the autopsy results.

 

[No_Regerts]

He took one to the junk, that sucks.

 

[evltwn]

Knucklehead dead, no Leo's injured. Sounds like a good day to me.

 

[Riot]

Riot, thank you for your polite response. You obviously put a lot of thought into it and I want to read it over and digest it when I have enough time before asking follow up questions.

I just want to note that my "shot in the back" statement comes from the autopsy results.

View attachment 255981

You realize that was from the second, "independent" autopsy....right?

The family of a Mexican national shot and killed by police in Washington state Feb. 10 has retained two attorneys with Central Florida connections to help them investigate the death.

Jose Baez, who represented Casey Anthony, and Benjamin Crump, the lawyer for the family of Trayvon Martin, were retained by the family of Antonio Zambrano-Montes.


BREAKING NEWS
A graphic of Antonio Zambrano-Montes provided by attorneys representing his family. The red dots represent bullet entry and exit points.


Zambrano-Montes' parents asked Baez and Crump to represent them after seeing their work in other cases, Baez said Friday.

Baez and Crump flew Zambrano-Montes' body to Orlando Thursday night and commissioned forensic pathologist Dr. Werner Spitz, who was also involved in the Casey Anthony case, to conduct an autopsy.

"We wanted to make sure our autopsy is in line with that of the coroner's inquest, and that of Pasco as well," Baez said.

This is the third autopsy of Zambrano-Montes.

"Without the information of the first autopsy, the second and third will leave more questions than answers," Baez said Friday, as Zambrano-Montes' body was on a plane back to Washington. "However, there are some things that can be ascertained from looking at these autopsies."

One shot struck Zambrano-Montes' chin, fracturing a bone there, Baez said.

Another seems to have gone through his right arm, into his chest, through his lungs and heart, then into his left arm, Baez said.

"Because of the inability to have the body at its most pristine form, we can't necessarily determine the actual direction of this at this time," Baez said. "This will be cleared up upon receiving the photos and autopsy report from the first autopsy."

Another shot went through the right arm and into his abdomen.

Baez said he could not determine whether a bullet wound from Zambrano-Montes' groin to near his buttocks came from the front or the back.

There were another one or two grazing wounds on Zambrano-Montes' abdomen that may have come from bullets, Baez said.

Zambrano-Montes was charged with assault last year after police said he threw objects at them and tried to grab an officer's gun.

Crump and Baez have asked the Department of Justice to investigate the shooting.

First autopsy (police)...from the front...second (lawyer) says from the back...third (DOJ) says that they cannot determine.