Police Chief to licensed carriers

[timac]

This is a quote from the article, which quotes the Chief:



I'd like anyone to articulate which part of the statement indicates anything other than the standard police tactics in any state and municipality. In fact it would be interesting to know who out of citizens on the forum who carry daily would employ any other tactics as well.

A Police Officer can use deadly force any time that he feels that his life or the life of another is in immediate danger. Any time a police officer discharges a firearm, it is considered deadly force, regardless of where on the body he shoots the suspect. He is under no obligation to shoot a non-vital area of the body because if he is discharging his firearm he is already in a situation where killing the suspect would be justified.

Just holding a gun does not give the Officer a reason to shoot. Pointing the gun at someone, not following the officers instructions to lay down the weapon, etc. will most likely result in a shooting incident.

 

[Nightcrawler]

Like it or not, the police do not have to wait until they are fired upon. Anyone who turns to face a cop with a gun in their hand is asking for a one-way ticket.

 

[fd15k]

Actually there is a bunch more to the Torbit story then that one link I posted. The story revolves around the cops shooting their own because they were too quick to shoot.

I guess you know it all so I'll just hush.

Let's put it this way: a person with a gun in the hand is a suspect. Armed citizen has their gun in the holster.

 

[Father of four]

Like it or not, the police do not have to wait until they are fired upon. Anyone who turns to face a cop with a gun in their hand is asking for a one-way ticket.

I can agree with what you are saying, but it is different then what the chief said.

 

[fd15k]

I can agree with what you are saying, but it is different then what the chief said.

And Chief said "kill them all, and let God sort them out"

 

[hermannr]

Hi All,
Well if someone pointed a gun at me and I had a gun I think I would shoot first and ask question later.........
Just my two cents,
Tony Portland, Oregon Area

Go back and read his comment again...he wasn't talking about pointing a gun AT anyone.

 

[Father of four]

Like it or not, the police do not have to wait until they are fired upon. Anyone who turns to face a cop with a gun in their hand is asking for a one-way ticket.

Police Chief
"I don't care if they're licensed legal firearms, people who are not highly trained... putting guns in their hands is a recipe for disaster. So I'll train our officers that there is a concealed carry law, but when somebody turns with a firearm in their hand the officer does not have an obligation to wait to get shot to return fire and we're going to have tragedies as a result of that. I'm telling you right up front."


See, Big difference.

 

[762fullmetaljacket]

What a total douche.

 

[hermannr]

Let's put it this way: a person with a gun in the hand is a suspect. Armed citizen has their gun in the holster.

Unless there is a reason to have it in hand...but again, this Mcdusch was just talking about posessing a gun, not pointing it at anything or anyone.

 

[Father of four]

Let's put it this way: a person with a gun in the hand is a suspect. Armed citizen has their gun in the holster.

And what if that armed citizen had to pull his firearm out to protect himself from a bad guy and the cops show up. Cops just shoot him because he has a gun in his hand?

 

[hermannr]

Let's put it this way: a person with a gun in the hand is a suspect. Armed citizen has their gun in the holster.

Unless there is a reason to have it in hand...but again, this Mcdusch was just talking about posessing a gun, not pointing it at anything or anyone.

 

[fd15k]

Unless there is a reason to have it in hand...but again, this Mcdusch was just talking about posessing a gun, not pointing it at anything or anyone.

Well, if there is no reason to have it in the hand, then in many jurisdiction it's at least "brandishing", if not worse. I'm glad you at least pointed out that the context was of a mere possession, which makes the argument even sillier.

 

[Father of four]

I'm beginning to think fd15k just likes to argue and has a hard time admitting fought.

 

[fd15k]

And what if that armed citizen had to pull his firearm out to protect himself from a bad guy and the cops show up. Cops just shoot him because he has a gun in his hand?

I would shoot if one turned my way while yielding a firearm. My understanding is if the officers approached a suspect from the side or back, the instruction would be to drop the gun first, everything else is later.

 

[fd15k]

I'm beginning to think fd15k just likes to argue and has a hard time admitting fought.

I like arguing, and I don't hesitate to admit when I'm wrong. hermannr corrected me on legal stuff many times, and I admitted when he was right.

 

[Father of four]

OK, have fun. See ya around.

 

[fd15k]

OK let make sure we remember what we are talking about.

I like your attitude.

Is it legal to carry a loaded firearm. Yes.

I surely hope it will be soon in IL.

Can I have it in my hand loaded Yes

It depends.

Menacing (in some states known as brandishing) is a violent crime in most state jurisdictions of the United States. Although the wording and degrees of offense vary slightly from state to state, the criminal act of menacing generally consists of displaying a weapon to a person with the intention of threatening them with bodily harm from said weapon.

It is distinct from other similar weapons-related crimes of violence such as "aggravated assault" or "assault with a deadly weapon" in that the charge of menacing requires neither an actual deadly weapon be displayed (any object wielded threateningly can be used to menace in many states), nor any actual physical contact. The display also need not be accompanied by a verbal threat; if the display of the weapon would cause a reasonable person to fear bodily harm from the perpetrator, the threat is considered to be implicit.

Menacing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If a cop does not identify himself and shoots a guy just holding a gun ( not pointing at him) that is murder, not a justified shooting.

How about a guy holding a gun making a threatening move (turning toward officers) ?

The law is clear, your rights may not be violated. A gun does not make you suspect anymore then
sitting in front of a bank with the car running is. It is called profiling !!!!

It's not the presence of a gun that makes one a suspect (there are actually rulings that say lawful carry is not a Probable Cause). It is the manner in which gun is possessed, and surrounding context that can make one a suspect. See the quote above for example.

 

[iusmc2002]

How is turning towards an officer a threatening move? Turning, while presenting/pointing the weapon....duh, justified. Turning with the weapon simply in the hand isn't justifiable., which is what the police chief is trying to say they're going to do.