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Please watch your Muzzle:-)

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by FAST ED, Mar 18, 2014.

  1. FAST ED

    FAST ED Milwaukie OR. Member

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    I am sure that this subject has been coverd before but it can never be said too many times. Yesterday I was at _____________gun shop in ________. I walked in the door to a customer pointing a handgun rite at my face while he was shopping at the counter being helped by 2 employee's no less. I am allways amazed how many people know nothing about proper muzzle disipline in gun shops or at the range. Nothing says "I am clueless, careless or ignorent" with gun handling skill than muzzle infractions. My Dad tought me at an early age that you can not teach a dumb person the definition of stupid. However I will try anyway because if only one person reads this and never sweeps themself or another person again than this thread could save a life.

    For you that need it said here is basic gun safety rules:

    1. Treat all guns as loaded at all times
    2. NEVER POINT A GUN AT ANYTING YOU DO NOT INTEND TO DESTROY!!!
    3. Keep your finger off the trigger and out of the trigger guard till you are ready to fire
    4. Be sure of your target and what is behind it (proper backstop) before you fire
    5. NEVER BREAK RULES 1-4

    These are the minimum of saftey. Please chime in as I am sure that someone who needs to hear this is reading this.

    Be safe have fun
    Ed-
     
  2. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I see this all the time in gun shops, it amazes me that somehow people seem to think the rules of safety don't apply. Is it being overly cautious? Maybe, but I'll take overly cautious over dead any day. I was recently in a LGS on McLoughlin Blvd and was looking at a couple of .45's. I brought one of the guns up to my regular shooting position to view the sights - pointing it away from people, up high at a back wall. Twice, an employee, who did see me, walked right in front of the barrel. It had been safety checked and my finger was not on the trigger. I dropped the barrel as soon as I saw them, but dang, in a gun store, you'd think they would know better.
     
    .45's and .38's likes this.
  3. 1990Turbo

    1990Turbo St.Helens Active Member

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    I heard at that same store there was a customer that took his pistol in and told the guy at the counter to try the trigger pull on it. The story was fairly vague but there was a live round in the chamber. Story didnt say if the gun was cleared or there was a shot fired.
     
  4. usmc

    usmc oregon Active Member

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    That's one of the reasons i do not prefer to shoot with others,not that it cant be fun but when you have several people with loaded weapons walking around or trying to clear a jammed weapon it makes me uneasy.i guess it comes down to a total lack of knowledge or respect for weapons. I always get a kick out of watching safari hunts and the hunter has his rifle pointed at his guides butt the whole time.makes me cringe.
     
    salmonriverjohn likes this.
  5. GunRightsCoalition

    GunRightsCoalition Vancouver Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    This is something the store should have dealt with. If they don't have employees that are hyper sensitive to this then they need new employees. Many people that walk into a gun store have never handled a firearm and do not even know the basic rules of gun safety. The time to start teaching them is right there in the store by insuring that they are adhered to by anyone in the store.
     
    Hungus85, humdrum, 40calruler and 2 others like this.
  6. Mikej

    Mikej Portland Gold Supporter Gold Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    The rules at the range state that any uncased gun is ALWAYS pointed downrange. I've taken this rule seriously since joining....Closed case goes to the table of my lane, case is opened with gun pointing downrange, gun removed from case and slide/cylinder opened/mag dropped, gun layed on table pointing downrange. Procedure is reversed when I'm done. I'm constantly seeing people pulling a gun from a bag at the bench and just taking it up to the table.
    Even worse...I love to check out other guns, so I'll ask a person about their gun. So many people just hand the gun to me without clearing it. I've also been handed a gun straight from their range bag! Well, they're sure it's empty because there's no mag in it, it gives me the willies though. I have to get it pointed downrange, clear/ lock it open without the mag.
    It may sound anal to some, but I'll be the one NOT having a ND go anywhere but DOWN RANGE!
     
  7. FAST ED

    FAST ED Milwaukie OR. Member

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    No such thing as anal when it comes to safety! If I am handed a gun and told it is clear and safe I will cycle the action and check the chamber my self to be sure it is safe even when handed a pistol at slide lock. There is no such thing as TOO SAFE! If you are handed a gun and told it is empty and you cause an AD......that is not a mistake or accident its negligence plane and simple.
     
  8. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie Vancouver Well-Known Member

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    I've had guys get confused about the difference between "cold range" and
    'down range" sitting next to me, as I explained the rules of the range to a new shooter, I usually explain them off the range and then again when we get there, as repetition is the mother of mastery. Weapons handling is paramount to having a good range experience.

    They seemed frustrated that I kept talking about pointing the muzzle downrange. Every time I said
    "down range" they treated it like I called for a"cold range". I felt a little bad that they may have left for what they perceived to be my breach of range etiquette.

    I have also handled guns at the gun stores, and had the folks behind the counter make it difficult for me because they move around behind the counter or stand in front of me while handling the weapon. I've seen a lot of folks behind the sales counter point the muzzle at themselves, their co workers and customers working the action and pulling the trigger. It's not just the customers that are lax about the 4 rules.

    I have a routine when removing and storing my holster and EDC gun that keeps the muzzle from being pointed anyone in the house or at any of the neighbors.
     
  9. Mikej

    Mikej Portland Gold Supporter Gold Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    Hmm...We have FAST ED and Fast Eddie. ^^ Any relation?
     
  10. RicInOR

    RicInOR Washington County Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I have been in a couple different Hillsboro area gun shops to fondle the wares. When I have asked, where is your safe point, I got looked at like I was from mars. How would I know if a wall was concrete, or just wall board? I have not even thought about asking at Fred Meyers.

    Trying to go over controls while having the muzzle pointed at the ground is difficult at best.


    For my range bags, I have a mark so I can tell at a glance where the muzzle is pointed; and I am anal consistent on how I put my firearms into the bags.


    My please don't do that again pucker moment was this: I was entering an indoor range. The setup has a counter along the wall, the aisle, then the shooting booths and range. As I opened the door, I am looking down the barrel of an MSR (found out later it was a pistol caliber carbine) on the counter. When you set out your firearms, do not point them at the door.
     
  11. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie Vancouver Well-Known Member

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    It's the most unimaginative alternative account I've ever come up with :)
     
  12. Mikej

    Mikej Portland Gold Supporter Gold Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    Hoot!
     
  13. FAST ED

    FAST ED Milwaukie OR. Member

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    Any Ed called Fast Eddie is a brother from another mother! I use to be Fast Eddie when I ran at the race track(thats me in my avitar at P.I.R. exiting turn 9) Now I settle for FAST ED when I shoot;)
     
    Fast Eddie likes this.
  14. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie Vancouver Well-Known Member

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    It's possible we are kindred spirits..
    IMG_20110513_155636.jpg
     
  15. humdrum

    humdrum Lakewood Active Member

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    I agree completely with being disgusted by the lack of care that most people exhibit in the shops. The real problem is that these careless-wonders typically produce the same terrifying gun handling skills while at the range... I get real nervous, and I have packed-up my things and left ranges because of dangerous patrons who wouldn't adhere to the safety rules. I have zero patience for that brand of ignorance.
     
  16. Rockys

    Rockys Clark county Member

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    I've been handed rifles at gun stores that haven't been cleared.

    One time watched an employee behind the gun counter grab a pistol off the wall and proceed to dry fire it without even checking it.

    Another time I was almost muzzled swept with a loaded hand gun. Guy gave me a strange look as I about bailed on the floor.

    I've seen one negligent discharge and the gun was pointed down range.
     
  17. Ron Eagle Elk

    Ron Eagle Elk Outside Ft Lewis East Gate Active Member

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    Two weeks ago, at the range, the idiot to my right was attempting to clear a misfire. Gun in his right hand, Magazine still in, finger on the trigger, left hand pushing on the slide with a finger over the muzzle. The muzzle, after pointing at his finger, was pointed at me, about stomach high. I backed up, went to his lane and told him he has just muzzle swept me and everyone to his left with a loaded fire arm. He said he was sorry. I go back to shooting my 1911. I look over and idiot is attempting to clear another misfire doing exactly the same thing. I go to his lane and let him know that he did it again, he's unsafe on the range and needs to leave. Idiot calls the RSO and explains things saying that I don't have the authority to make him leave. (His wife and daughter were with him.) The RSO tells said idiot, "I have the authority to make you leave and you will leave right now and not come back until you bring me proof that you have attended a firearms safety course."

    I don't know how some people can be so unaware of the danger of their actions.
     
  18. salmonriverjohn

    salmonriverjohn N.W Oregon coast, Gods country Well-Known Member

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    There is no way to say that your sorry after you've just shot someone or something that you didn't intend to that is acceptable, there are no excuses, none.
     
  19. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    I started a thread about quiting the gun shop cause I was telling a guy to clear his weapon and didn't get any backing.
    my other story was about 20 years ago.I was at a indoor range in Mount lake terrace. The guy next to me was showing his GF/wife how to shoot I guess.He never taught her range etiquette since when I stopped shooting,I looked down and she had a 1911,loaded and NOT locked,finger on trigger,pointed ant my right foot.
    All I could thing was how bad the ricochet was going to destroy my foot after it went thru the from the top.
    So I stepped back and grabbed her elbow and raised the gun to waist high,saying 'you need to keep the gun pointed down range'. First the guy mad dogged me until he realized it was his fault.
    I didn't know I should have told the range officer back then or I surely would have

    All we can do is call these people out and let them know the rules of the road or we won't be shopping/shooting around them.
     
    forefathersrback likes this.
  20. Lindy

    Lindy Central Ca. Member

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    Don't teach a Pig to sing
    For You shall fail
    And You will irritate
    The Pig !