Plated bullet .357 crimping problems

taylor · Feb 10, 2012

I had some max length magnum primed cases I wanted to use , I decided on 158grn Berrys bullets plated round nose. I used 6grn unique.
Because the case was so long I had to seat deeper than usual to keep the COL down.
I tried to use the built in crimper but I wasn't getting anywheres until I screwed it deeper then I couldn't raise the press arm but halfways.
I tried to use a Lee factory crimp die and with much pressure I got a razor thin light crimp.
Should I be using the Taper crimp for these?

deadshot2 · Feb 11, 2012

It sounds like you are trying to crimp ahead of he cannelure, assuming the bullet has one. This will make it difficult, if not impossible to get a roll crimp without creating other issues. I would just back off from where you have the Lee FCD set and put enough crimp to just make a slight depression in the bullet. That should be enough to prevent any bullet movement with full magnum loads. A taper crimp won't do much good other than to squeeze the case back against the bullet thus removing any flare created to seat the bullet.

As for keeping the COAL down, would the bullet protrude if you merely roll crimped into the cannelure (again, assuming the bullet has one)? If the bullet doesn't protrude from the cylinder, and doesn't move under recoil, why worry about "holding the COL down"? Usually, longer OAL means lower pressures and better accuracy although not to the extent one might realize in a rifle.

taylor · Feb 11, 2012

The bullet is completely smooth no cannelure. I think you're right maybe I was trying to get a heavier crimp where it was difficult. The cartridge chambers OK in my Blackhawk, cylinder spins and its not impeding rotation. I'll just go with the very light Lee factory crimp I have and not worry getting a heavy roll crimp.

GuyBMeredith · Feb 11, 2012

Check out X-Treme plated bullets. I've been using them for years as I like the fact they do have a cannelure and have a heavier plating.

BillM · Feb 12, 2012

Watch it on heavy crimping plated bullets. They are soft lead and the plating is THIN.
Over crimping can cut through the plating, and the Lee FCD can swage the bullet down
a bit. Either will cause accuracy to suffer. If the bullet has a cannelure, use it.

Mikej · Feb 13, 2012

I was just going through something similar, though I'm loading .38special. I'd bought 500 Raineer 125gr hp, with out the cannelure. Shell length needs to be very close on all rounds with out the cannelure, within .002. The plated Raineers are not as soft as the cannelue on a bullet, so if the case was more +/- than .002 in length the crimp was either a little light or would start to fold the case. I hope that makes sense. I've shot both, light crimp and barely visible folded. Theres been no sticking going in the cylinder or coming out. From here out I will seperate in to two lengths, and load AND BE SURE I get bullets with the cannelure next time.

I don't see where I need to worry about .002 or .003 in .38 as long as I'm not folding cases.
YMMV

Mike

Mikej · Feb 13, 2012

BillM said:
Watch it on heavy crimping plated bullets. They are soft lead and the plating is THIN.
Over crimping can cut through the plating, and the Lee FCD can swage the bullet down
a bit. Either will cause accuracy to suffer. If the bullet has a cannelure, use it.

Bill, I don't know if .357 is the same case as .38 only longer, but my .38 cases seem like they will fold long before the crimp would cut through the plating of these particular bullets. The feel of the handle when in gets to the crimp is way hard compared to a bullet with a cannelure.

Mike

taylor · Feb 13, 2012

I saw a video where the guy was factory crimping different size cases by going by 'feel', raising the ram just until you feel resistence, instead of trying to push it all the way into the die.

Mikej · Feb 14, 2012

taylor said:
I saw a video where the guy was factory crimping different size cases by going by 'feel', raising the ram just until you feel resistence, instead of trying to push it all the way into the die.

I do that a bit, problem is then your OAL is .003, or more, off and you need to turn the seater down a smidge and hit it again. I've come to think .38/.357 with their roll crimp is just a pain compared to 9mm and .45! I measured and sperated my cleaned/primed shells into three tubs.....i'll be looking at a trimmer in the future I think.

I did have a case that was damaged and snuck through my inspections, didn't notice it untill it was loaded so I took it apart. I would say the crimp I'm getting is completely adequate, probably good for .357 IF that was what I was loading.

Mike

M67 · Feb 14, 2012

Just a thought.....

Using a Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die, for 38 Special, 357 Magnum. It will get the results you want, without damage to the case, but you must use quality bullets, not plated ones.

From my reloading experience of 25 years.
I stay away from the cast lead and plated bullets and use a semi-JHP, JHP or a FMJ, for all of my reloads, and the cost for a better made bullet is minimal.

Mikej · Feb 14, 2012

M67 said:
Just a thought.....

Have you considered a, Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die, for 38 Special, 357 Magnum. It will get the results you want, without damage to the case.

From my reloading experience of over 25 years.
I stay away from the cast lead and plated bullets and use a semi-JHP, JHP or a FMJ, for all of my reloads, and the cost for a better made bullet is minimal.

I'm using JHPs without the cannelure. The cannelure makes crimping easier as it is softer to crimp into than the plated Raineers I'm using currently. .002" or.003" in case length doesn'tt make much difference.
I'm still learning, and refining tecnique.

Mike

unklekippy · Feb 14, 2012

I will only use cannelured bullets in revolvers in general and especially magnum handguns. For me, that is only .357 & .44 magnum. The exception is when I ues cast bullets. For me a jacketed bullet is by far superior. Sometimes I will buy plated, but simply to lower cost. It is also hard to find plated bullets with a cannelure. I will not push a plated bullet the way I may with a jacketed bullet. I never push ANY bullet unsafely, but I will not push cast or plated at all. After a certain amount of rounds fired or reloaded, you start to be able to judge what you can and can't do with your supplies, your equipment, your firearms and your personal ability. Mike-keep learning and keep refining your technique. The satisfaction of finally getting the exact recipe for whatever load you are working up is amazing. I have .357 mag loads that work so well from my S&W 686 4" in accuracy, velocity, penetration and expansion that I will only buy factory ammo for the brass. I have two loads that I am very proud of. Not because I created something that no one else could do, but I created something that works perfectly for MY gun. A 125 grain Hornady XTP with 21.0 grains of H110 and a CCI small pistol primer(no mag primers for me) and gets about 1860-1875fps. My other favorite load is a Hornady 180 grain XTP with 13.5 grains of H110 and the same primer for 1375-1390fps. These are loads that I would use for defense(125's) or hunting(180's). For target or practicing, I use all sorts of bullets, but the powder is always HP38 or H110 for my .357 mag. Have fun, keep refining and you will really feel satisfaction when not only you get the desired velocities, but consistent accuracy in a load you developed for your gun. Kip.

Blitzkrieg · Feb 14, 2012

Without a channelure I always taper crimp.. Lee TC dies are less than $15

Hook686 · Feb 15, 2012

When I used plated bullets I kept the speed down to 1200 fps, or less. I did not worry about crimp jump, so using the Lee factory Crimp die at a light setting did just fine for me.

GuyBMeredith · Feb 15, 2012

OAL on revolver? No need to worry there other than adjusting powder load to the case volume a different OAL may present.

Mikej · Feb 16, 2012

GuyBMeredith said:
OAL on revolver? No need to worry there other than adjusting powder load to the case volume a different OAL may present.

I'm just being anal I suppose, I do understand that in the grand scheme OAL on .38 special isn't THAT critical.

Mike

deadshot2 · Feb 16, 2012

Mikej said:
I'm just being anal I suppose, I do understand that in the grand scheme OAL on .38 special isn't THAT critical.

Mike

Especially if you're shooting them in a .357

Greenbug · Feb 16, 2012

Try seating the bullets to your desired depth first (no crimp while seating). Then in a separate step, back off your seating stem on your die and crimp by "feel" all of your previously seated rounds adjusting your crimp as needed for each round (small rotation on the die up or down). When your cases are not all trimmed to the same length it causes issues to seat and crimp all in the same press stroke. The longer cases get crimped too heavily and the short cases sometimes not enough. Or just trim all your cases to the same length before reloading them again and avoid the problem alltogether.