Plan how you carry depending on that day's activities. Don't be stupid like me.

[Jnarowe]

I always CC in the AIWB mode and only once (that I know of) have I ever been "made". We looked at each other (She went from my eyes to where she saw the gun), I said "Good Morning"...she said nothing so I continued to shop at Home Depot. I do my best to wear long enough shirts that even while lifting my arms it's not exposed, that said, I'm not going to freak out, I'll play it off as no big deal (because it isn't a big deal) and go about my business.

If someone wants to cause a fuss, that's on them...IMO.

You bring up an old memory from the 90's when I was in a hotel in NYC and ran down the hall to get ice. I had already taken off my suit jacket and oddly forgot as I went out the door. So I am cruising down the hallway and come upon a couple at which time I realize I'm wearing my gun. Attitude is everything. Look like you belong. They didn't say a thing and didn't report it. Two reasons of course are that this was a high-end hotel at which plenty of people with private security were staying, and I was well dressed.

 

[Jnarowe]

I got made one time when I was working a second job at Circuit City on La Cienega in Los Angeles. Apparently someone ratted me out. I had a premonition that morning that I should leave it at home, but I had a rule that I never left without it.

I hear over the PA the manager calling me to come to the office. Again, the thought that I should stash it crossed my mind. But I never let it out of my possession. So in the office he asks if I am carrying, says corporate security is on their way, and asked to have it. I really don't know why i gave it up. The GM then told me he understood why I was carrying, and that he did sometimes, but that it was a violation of company policy.

Then the cops show up. They cuff me and take me to the West LA station. Cuffed me to the front door handle BTW, which really bothered me. He was questioning me during the ride and I lied to buy time. We get there and they cuff me to a bench along with some gang bangers. They are in the evidence room across the hall and I can hear every word they are saying. Like, hey, I wish i could afford this gun....

So they are literally thumbing through law books trying to find something to charge me for, but alas, I was on private property when they detained me so they had nothing. I got my phone call and called my Dad. I later found out they denied that I was even there. After about a half hour, the sergeant in charge takes me into an interview room and standing face to face tells me that regardless of his own political beliefs, he didn't want to catch me carrying again. "Yes sir."

They kept the gun for 24 hours for ballistic testing and on my way out the door, the desk officer jokes that he hopes I don't get mugged on the way home. I returned the next day to retrieve my gun, and they hand it to me plus a tiny manilla envelope with the ammo wrapped 25 times+ in scotch tape. I left, walked around the side of the building, and holstered up.

I got another side job selling shoes at May company and 6 months later was fired for no reason. Well, the reason was I had been blackballed from retail. They didn't even tell my boss why he had to fire me.

 

[Koda]

I got made one time when I was working a second job at Circuit City on La Cienega in Los Angeles. Apparently someone ratted me out. I had a premonition that morning that I should leave it at home, but I had a rule that I never left without it.

I hear over the PA the manager calling me to come to the office. Again, the thought that I should stash it crossed my mind. But I never let it out of my possession. So in the office he asks if I am carrying, says corporate security is on their way, and asked to have it. I really don't know why i gave it up. The GM then told me he understood why I was carrying, and that he did sometimes, but that it was a violation of company policy.

Then the cops show up. They cuff me and take me to the West LA station. Cuffed me to the front door handle BTW, which really bothered me. He was questioning me during the ride and I lied to buy time. We get there and they cuff me to a bench along with some gang bangers. They are in the evidence room across the hall and I can hear every word they are saying. Like, hey, I wish i could afford this gun....

So they are literally thumbing through law books trying to find something to charge me for, but alas, I was on private property when they detained me so they had nothing. I got my phone call and called my Dad. I later found out they denied that I was even there. After about a half hour, the sergeant in charge takes me into an interview room and standing face to face tells me that regardless of his own political beliefs, he didn't want to catch me carrying again. "Yes sir."

They kept the gun for 24 hours for ballistic testing and on my way out the door, the desk officer jokes that he hopes I don't get mugged on the way home. I returned the next day to retrieve my gun, and they hand it to me plus a tiny manilla envelope with the ammo wrapped 25 times+ in scotch tape. I left, walked around the side of the building, and holstered up.

I got another side job selling shoes at May company and 6 months later was fired for no reason. Well, the reason was I had been blackballed from retail. They didn't even tell my boss why he had to fire me.

Pure discrimination. And people wonder why gun owners dont support more "common sense" gun laws.

 

[decklin]

I agree that this is how it SHOULD be, but in Washington;

Police ticket man who wore gun in store.Visible handgun alarmed someone, police say

Vancouver is rather well known for not following state law. Are you familiar with Mack Worley? He has been featured in a number of publications.
In the case you quoted here is an update.
Open Carry Update: Kurk Kirby Charges Dismissed - The Truth About Guns

 

[decklin]

Washington is an open carry state.
Washington
The AG opinion for carry on city property.
http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/agopinions/WAAGOpCityProperty.pdf
Washington State Law Enforcement Training Bulletins.
http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/agopinions/WashingtonStOpenCarryBulletin.pdf

 

[Lilhigbee]

Vancouver is rather well known for not following state law. Are you familiar with Mack Worley? He has been featured in a number of publications.
In the case you quoted here is an update.
Open Carry Update: Kurk Kirby Charges Dismissed - The Truth About Guns

Thanks for the update @decklin. I wonder how much it cost him for not doing anything wrong??

 

[Powderman]

No I don't agree with it, and Jim you are right about civil rights, but here is the law;



RCW 9.41.270
Weapons apparently capable of producing bodily harm—Unlawful carrying or handling—Penalty—Exceptions.
(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.
(2) Any person violating the provisions of subsection (1) above shall be guilty of a gross misdemeanor. If any person is convicted of a violation of subsection (1) of this section, the person shall lose his or her concealed pistol license, if any. The court shall send notice of the revocation to the department of licensing, and the city, town, or county which issued the license.
(3) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply to or affect the following:
(a) Any act committed by a person while in his or her place of abode or fixed place of business;
(b) Any person who by virtue of his or her office or public employment is vested by law with a duty to preserve public safety, maintain public order, or to make arrests for offenses, while in the performance of such duty;
(c) Any person acting for the purpose of protecting himself or herself against the use of presently threatened unlawful force by another, or for the purpose of protecting another against the use of such unlawful force by a third person;
(d) Any person making or assisting in making a lawful arrest for the commission of a felony; or
(e) Any person engaged in military activities sponsored by the federal or state governments.

I am sorry, sir, but I must post here.

First of all, I have NO idea what the officer was thinking about when this guy was issued a citation. Hopefully, when it gets to Court, the judge will throw it out.

Second, read the first part of that RCW again. It is plain--INTENT must be demonstrated to commit great bodily harm. Open carry is perfectly legal in the State of Washington.

A quick story:

Middle of a patrol shift, and I stop into one of the stores in my area for a Sobe Lifewater (fuji Apple, thanks) and some more gum to stick in the car. While I'm in line, I note that the guy in front of me is carrying a SIG handgun, in a Kydex holster. I wait until he finishes his purchase, and then I mention to him, "Hey...nice rig. P226 or maybe 227?" He replied that it was a 226, and we walked for a bit about it. I pointed to my primary duty carry--a Para Ordnance P14 Limited--and mention that I love it, and it shoots well--it's just kinda heavy.

We part ways cordially.

The cop that wrote the guy for unlawful carry needs to go back and talk with his FTO. Or, maybe his FTO needs to talk to HIM.

 

[Lilhigbee]

No need to apologize, post all you want!!
I agree, the cop was completely wrong to write the ticket.
I read it very carefully. Intent is only half of paragraph 1. It also says "...or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons." I would conclude that "warrants alarm" is about as vague a condition as one could dream up.
Glad you support armed citizens, I wish everyone in your profession did as well.

 

[RVTECH]

She started screaming and complaining.

NOT CCW related but a similar A-Hole lady story. A few years ago a friend of mine had bought a new Glock. Wanting to try it out immediately he drove just east of Bend off Hwy 20 and turned off on a NF road and found a backstop to just run a few mags - COMPLETELY legal. After shooting several rounds he told me a car drove up and a woman with an 'English' accent got out and started laying into him about shooting, how it's 'not legal' and essentially became nearly hysterical. He felt the best thing to do was leave which he did and called me later to tell me about this. He was livid but felt leaving was the best thing to do since there was no one else around. He did mention he gave the woman credit for being so bold as to approach someone who is armed - and essentially alone more or less in a remote area. He said "How did she know I wasn't some psycho - maniac?" It was funny to hear him tell me the story as he was nearly hysterical himself!

 

[Certaindeaf]

NOT CCW related but a similar A-Hole lady story. A few years ago a friend of mine had bought a new Glock. Wanting to try it out immediately he drove just east of Bend off Hwy 20 and turned off on a NF road and found a backstop to just run a few mags - COMPLETELY legal. After shooting several rounds he told me a car drove up and a woman with an 'English' accent got out and started laying into him about shooting, how it's 'not legal' and essentially became nearly hysterical. He felt the best thing to do was leave which he did and called me later to tell me about this. He was livid but felt leaving was the best thing to do since there was no one else around. He did mention he gave the woman credit for being so bold as to approach someone who is armed - and essentially alone more or less in a remote area. He said "How did she know I wasn't some psycho - maniac?" It was funny to hear him tell me the story as he was nearly hysterical himself!

She was probably livid because he was in her favorite baby aborting spot. what a sunt

 

[Powderman]

No need to apologize, post all you want!!
I agree, the cop was completely wrong to write the ticket.
I read it very carefully. Intent is only half of paragraph 1. It also says "...or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons." I would conclude that "warrants alarm" is about as vague a condition as one could dream up.
Glad you support armed citizens, I wish everyone in your profession did as well.

A good amount of us do, at least in Washington.

I had a "panic" call once. A lady called and said that a man was (gasp!) HUNTING next to a school. I responded, as did another guy that was on duty at the time.

We pulled up to the school, and the now incensed lady pointed out three guys WAY off in the distance. As I watched, one shot a duck that was flying overhead. She was almost beside herself, stating that what they were doing was ILLEGAL.

I went to talk with the hunters.

On the way there, I ran a pace count (courtesy of the US Army), and even adding some for a fudge factor, these guys were WELL over 500 yards from the school. As the shooters saw me approaching, all of them safed their shotguns (all over and unders) and waited for me. I approached--they hung their shotguns on their shoulders, muzzles facing backwards.

"Hi! How are you guys doing?" The replies were cordial. I saw some decoys, and about six ducks waiting for the stew pot.

I asked, "Do you guys know the land owner? The oldest gent stepped forward and said, "I'm the land owner." I bade them all good hunting, turned around and walked back. The reporting party was absolutely APOPLECTIC that someone was not going to jail. I explained that (a) they were on their own land, (b) they were well out of the limit for shooting near buildings, (c) they were in an unincorporated area, making it perfectly legal for them to hunt. Of course, she was saying that "no one should kill an animal in front of children, because it gives them the wrong ideas."

I glanced into her car, saw some McDonald's wrappers, and asked her, "So, how do you explain THAT (pointing to a burger wrapper) to children?"

She was not amused.

 

[Flopsweat]

No need to apologize, post all you want!!
I agree, the cop was completely wrong to write the ticket.
I read it very carefully. Intent is only half of paragraph 1. It also says "...or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons." I would conclude that "warrants alarm" is about as vague a condition as one could dream up.
Glad you support armed citizens, I wish everyone in your profession did as well.

My understanding is that we have a wealth of case law that creates a pretty substantial standard to meet. Someone "feeling scared" is not nearly enough grounds. The fear must be warranted, and a holstered gun does not warrant. Now if you're touching it or making menacing statements, that's another story. Again, this is just my understanding, not legal advice.

 

[Koda]

My understanding is that we have a wealth of case law that creates a pretty substantial standard to meet. Someone "feeling scared" is not nearly enough grounds. The fear must be warranted, and a holstered gun does not warrant. Now if you're touching it or making menacing statements, that's another story. Again, this is just my understanding, not legal advice.

The problem as I see it is that the person being hysterical over the sight of a holstered gun doesnt have a clue about the law or how the courts have ruled. They are still going to freak out and call the cops, and how that plays out from the is anyone guess... Probably not in favor of the open carrier.

 

[Flopsweat]

The problem as I see it is that the person being hysterical over the sight of a holstered gun doesnt have a clue about the law or how the courts have ruled. They are still going to freak out and call the cops, and how that plays out from the is anyone guess... Probably not in favor of the open carrier.

Twice I've watched people call the cops on me while I was open carrying. Their side of the conversation seemed to indicate that they were less than satisfied with the answer, and LE never showed up. Part of the reason is probably that every LEA in my area has educated their officers on OC. There have apparently been some lawsuits that encouraged LE to bone up on state law.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

The problem as I see it is that the person being hysterical over the sight of a holstered gun doesnt have a clue about the law or how the courts have ruled. They are still going to freak out and call the cops, and how that plays out from the is anyone guess... Probably not in favor of the open carrier.

This is how I'm afraid it would play out where I live.
For those that live in a more "gun friendly area" , it might be different.

If you do open carry I'd suggest that you know and comply to all the laws regarding open carry that might affect you.
Local , state and national.
Above all be polite and respond to all of the officers demands or requests when interacting with them.
I wouldn't want to read about you in the news , in a bad way or light.
Andy

 

[Koda]

Thats how it would play out in my part of town...

There are a few open carry (OC) advocates on this forum, but they all seem to reside in more rural towns. Until I hear about them OCing downtown major population centers like Portland, unharrassed... It wont be something I will do or reccommend.

 

[Flopsweat]

Well, to be clear, I pick where I OC. I won't OC in downtown Seattle but much of the East Side I do or have. You get funny looks once in a great while, but so many more people are nice and friendly and act like they don't even see the gun. Some probably don't.

 

[decklin]

Thats how it would play out in my part of town...

There are a few open carry (OC) advocates on this forum, but they all seem to reside in more rural towns. Until I hear about them OCing downtown major population centers like Portland, unharrassed... It wont be something I will do or reccommend.

I oc'd into the rei in Seattle a few times. Good experience and no freak outs.
I've OC'd in Tacoma on many occasions. I've seen other oc'ers in Tacoma a lot. If you don't fidget and act like you belong there (which you do) nobody cares or notices.

 

[Koda]

I oc'd into the rei in Seattle a few times. Good experience and no freak outs.
I've OC'd in Tacoma on many occasions. I've seen other oc'ers in Tacoma a lot. If you don't fidget and act like you belong there (which you do) nobody cares or notices.

I'd be interesting to see opinions on Seattle vs Portland on this subject. I dont visit up there much, and have only seen a handful of OCers here in Oregon ever, none in Portland. Id be scared to OC in Portland honestly. I'm not against it, and fully support it, and would even advocate against outlawing it. I appreciate you and those that advocate for it.

 

[decklin]

Thats how it would play out in my part of town...

There are a few open carry (OC) advocates on this forum, but they all seem to reside in more rural towns. Until I hear about them OCing downtown major population centers like Portland, unharrassed... It wont be something I will do or reccommend.

Here's a few reports for Washington on oc.org. You'll see oc is a normal thing here in Washington.
South Sound OC Report........
Seattke/King County OC Report
Whatcom County OC
Eastern WA OC Report