Pistols in bug out bags?

[Bushman]

I was reading this:
SHTF Kit Planning: What to Have and Why – Part I (https://defensivetraininggroup.wordpress.com/2016/03/30/shtf-kit-planning-what-to-have-and-why-part-i/)

He has people carrying a pistol and 5 mags and 50 extra rounds minimum. What's that work out to, 6 or 8 pounds?

I always wonder about the utility of pistols in these situations. What is the rifle for, anyway? At least you can hit something with it.

To carry that 8 pounds, you have to give up something else, that might make more sense to bring along. 8 pounds (say 300 rounds) of rifle ammo? A gallon of water? Food?

I can see pistols for a lot of things, such as concealed carry in a "normal" society. Or sitting on your bedstand. But SHTF? Someone please explain to me why a pistol makes any sense. Note, I'm not saying a pistol can never have any use - obviously there are a lot of situations where it would. An M60 would also have some uses. I just don't see how a pistol makes the cut...

I remember before Katrina I used to get the "a pistol is for fighting your way to a rifle" response every time I said a pistol is a better weapon because you can conceal it. FerFAL, an Argentina prepper who has live through SHTF said the same thing; a lot of water has to go under the bridge for you to be able to OC your rifle or shotgun down the street or to the dentist. For this reason I've always said a pistol is the most important survival weapon because you can conceal it and thus always have it on you.

 

[Bushman]

My question was more along the lines of, assume you have an AR-15 available to you, and that it makes sense for the situation. Why then also have a pistol?

Because two is one and one is none. Can't carry two rifles with you but a rifle and a pistol is a reasonable combination.

 

[mkwerx]

At this point in time - a rifle in my GHB is a no-go. I got grudging acceptance from the boss man for a concealed pistol - when a non-involved party mentioned to him the liability of getting sued by me if I get hurt as a direct result of his former no-weapons policy (which I gave no compliance to, as we go places and deal with people and 'the public' is not always friendly) - he was worried about getting sued if I ever shot someone. Hadn't thought of getting sued by me if I was in a situation where I WOULD have had to shoot someone but couldn't. Anyway...

A pistol goes everywhere I go. It's part of my attire. As is at least one spare mag. I've tailored my dress to accommodate this. I usually have a decent pair of boots on - I'm getting to the point of replacing the current ones as I wear soles out in fairly short order.

My bag is kept as spartan as I can make it and be comfortable - it is not only my GHB but my "well I didn't plan on staying overnight somewhere but I'm out of legal hours to drive so here I am" bag.

I have:

A blanket - twin size fleece. I have slept in the truck, in December, on Mt. Jefferson and been comfortable. I won't go any lighter, and haven't felt a need to have an actual sleeping bag under the seat.

I carry a full change of clothing from skivvies to outerwear. There's light weight high vis rain pants rolled up in there too, and plenty of changes of socks. In fall/winter I add in polypro long undies for a light, wicking layer.

I have a very small tool kit - foreceps, a spare folding knife, medical scissors, cross head and straight blade screw drivers, and pliers with wire cutters. These are backups to the multitool I carry on body. I also have a handful of zip ties and a roll of tape.

There's a small first aid kit - mostly bandages, gauze, medical tape, neosporin, and alcohol gel. There is also ibuprofen, and a bottle of allergy meds (I began having seasonal allergies this year, and these stop the coughing, sneezing, and dry eyes)

I've got a lighter, matches, and a magnesium bar with striker tucked away together in case I need a fire for whatever reason.

Spare LED mini mag light to back up the Mag XL50 I carry on body. Two sets of spare batteries for each light.

Foil packed Tuna and protien bars for on-the-go food. Winco started selling stripped MRE components so I may supplement this with a couple more goodies.

I carry 3 spare mags in the bag.

I've also got a small toiletry kit - hotel sample soap, shampoo, lotion, wet wipes, and a couple condoms, plus a few small bills in case society isn't totally gone to crap and I need to pay someone for something, or I get caught out in BFE and need food/water/other and they don't take plastic.

I carry two water bottles in the truck - actually one steel water bottle, and one polycarbonate canteen. They both hold a quart of water. I admit - I need to pick up a filter or tabs for purification.

The bag in question is a coyote "tactical" looking pack - chosen because it was the right size, had the right size compartments, and was just big enough to carry what I wanted without being overly big (because we all fill voids with too much crap if given the opportunity). It blends with most of the packs I see other people carry - military type bags are really common around Portland, and in the boonies. The coyote blends well in most environments, so that I see as a plus.

If I need to grab the bag, I'm also grabbing my leather gloves out of the truck, and one of the coats I keep in there, and possibly some other kit - depending on the nature of the unintended hike.

Were I my own boss, I might consider keeping a long gun secured out of sight, with the gear to support it. But I'm not at that point yet.

I tote what I figure I am likely to need when I find myself away from home - and that could be anywhere from just a few miles, to hundreds of miles away. In the last week for example, I've been to seattle a couple times, LaPine twice, Bend/Redmond, as well as just all over the metro. I've found myself on a few occasions by the Canadian border, or in Idaho - I'm not planning on hoofing it home from those locations - took the settlers on the Oregon trail a loooong time to make it that far to where I call home. I'd more likely look for alternative modes of transportation if I can no longer travel by truck.

Bugging out is not on our list of things to do - it once was - but we've had a parting of ways from the friends who we used to plan to hook up with. Instead we'll shelter in place unless said place is destroyed or unlivable. Don't plan on becoming a refugee if I can help it.

 

[FortRock]

The Oregon Cascadia Subduction Plan is available on-line some place. I have read, reviewed and commented on it. It is chilling. Food, water, communications equipment, batteries, first aid stuff and training. Avoid wading through flowing water in the urban areas. Any open wounds will become infected. There will be little medical assistance. Pistols make sense but any firearm and ammo will help. There will be civil unrest. Interesting read. Lots of great ideas in this thread. Foil packs of meat and power bars are my favorites. Nuts and dried fruit are good too. Stored canned goods will be recoverable from your crushed shelves. I have lots of matches, bic lighters, and trioxane tablets vacuum sealed. A subduction event would be bleak. Redmond Airport will be the center of operations. I am too old to bug out. We would hold up here.

 

[cigars]

I was reading this:
SHTF Kit Planning: What to Have and Why – Part I (https://defensivetraininggroup.wordpress.com/2016/03/30/shtf-kit-planning-what-to-have-and-why-part-i/)

He has people carrying a pistol and 5 mags and 50 extra rounds minimum. What's that work out to, 6 or 8 pounds?

I always wonder about the utility of pistols in these situations. What is the rifle for, anyway? At least you can hit something with it.

To carry that 8 pounds, you have to give up something else, that might make more sense to bring along. 8 pounds (say 300 rounds) of rifle ammo? A gallon of water? Food?

I can see pistols for a lot of things, such as concealed carry in a "normal" society. Or sitting on your bedstand. But SHTF? Someone please explain to me why a pistol makes any sense. Note, I'm not saying a pistol can never have any use - obviously there are a lot of situations where it would. An M60 would also have some uses. I just don't see how a pistol makes the cut...

Pistols have their place but there's a reason why a soldiers primary weapon is the rifle.

 

[Hamilton Felix]

I think it comes down to what you can carry. And after reading the above, I'm thinking about how to lighten the GHB. Also, contents of the bag depends on what you already wear, the EDC that is always with you. If I already wear large and small lights (sort of goes with my job), then lights in the bag is not a big priority. If I already wear a .45 then the AR-7 in the bag is all the add-on I'll likely need to get home (remember, the AR-7 is only 16-1/2 inches long when stored).

For people who can't carry 24/7, a good pistol & holster (and maybe belt) should be in the bag. When I think about taking more than a day to get home, I think very strongly about hygiene, first aid, anti-fungals, clean socks, and compact minimum rations. The closer I am to cities and farther from home, the more I think about clean water.

 

[tc556guy]

My handgun should be on me, not in my bag. I suppose that if you worked somewhere and needed to conceal it til it was needed, sort of like the main guy in the Borrowed World books, it might make sense, but even then, 5 mags...I'm hoping you wouldn't need that many mags unless you were in a ban state where all you had access to was neutered magazines

 

[mjbskwim]

I was wondering if anyone was questioning why you would need a handgun in your bug out bag.
I would guess all you would need would be spare mags in the BOB cause you would already have one on you,no?
And kind of like tc556guy is saying,why so many mags?
I don't believe if you are shooting thru 7-8 mags you are going very far at all.
But ,hey,I kinda think the whole buying out thing isn't going to be a very good idea at all.
Unless you have another destination prepared ,where you should have ammo waiting.

 

[tc556guy]

https://www.oregon.gov/OMD/OEM/plans_train/docs/CSZ/1_csz_plan_final.pdf

The Oregon Cascadia Subduction Plan is available on-line some place.

 

[tc556guy]

You might want to think about adding a <snip>planesphere...

Never even considered that. Thanks for the suggestion

 

[Joe13]

I was wondering if anyone was questioning why you would need a handgun in your bug out bag.
I would guess all you would need would be spare mags in the BOB cause you would already have one on you,no?
And kind of like tc556guy is saying,why so many mags?
I don't believe if you are shooting thru 7-8 mags you are going very far at all.
But ,hey,I kinda think the whole buying out thing isn't going to be a very good idea at all.
Unless you have another destination prepared ,where you should have ammo waiting.

Yea, I agree.

90-99% of people putting these bags together seem to be relying on gear as opposed to survival knowledge, which only comes with practice.

Hell, my first trip out to hunt I took enough to survive months in my bag. First thing I did when I got back to the truck was to dump 20 lbs of gear I didn't need and curse myself for wearing myself out the first morning.


I would challenge people to post their bags total weight and how far, in your area, you can actually walk before fatigue sets in.


My Get Home Bag (I'm staying in my house until it is a pile of rubble and then I will consider where to hike to at that point, as I have no viable options that 30,000 people in my 'immediate' area wouldn't already be at) I take everywhere has stuff for me and a small dog to get us 15-20 miles if needed and weighs about 15 lbs total; closer to 20 if I am going further but no more.

 

[Ura-Ki]

I look at a BOB a bit differently. With my training, I am always looking at the smallest and lightest gear and supply's to keep things as light as I can! I continue to copy my service load out because that is proven to work. I don't keep much spare ammo in the bob, I have it in Bandoleers I wear! Food and medical supplies, a few well thought tools, and that,s about it! For a City BOB, I might add a few extras, but still keep small and light! I do carry a Carbine in my BOB, but until I get my SBR Stamp, it's a bit big! I try to stay as low profile as I can and my work attire supports this!

 

[PaulB47]

FerFAL, an Argentina prepper who has live through SHTF said the same thing; a lot of water has to go under the bridge for you to be able to OC your rifle or shotgun down the street or to the dentist.

I'm a fan of Ferfal's stuff.

Maybe the point is, to have the rifle in the pack and a small pistol on the belt (even a Keltec P32 would be enough). No extra ammo for the pistol, as its whole point is instantaneous response only. You don't stand there and shoot it out with your P32, you get to cover and get the rifle out of the bag, and get to work.

Anyway doing it like that takes care of the issue with OC of rifles being a bit overboard - not that I expect it to be much of an issue in the US. This ain't Argentina after all. If you are caught in a place like Chicago though, I can see the point. Portland? I'd OC a rifle after a massive earthquake, sure - if things were "sporty" enough.

 

[Truenorth]

I had to laugh at my buddy this weekend. He 's been wanting to show me his "bug out bag" for quite awhile and I finally got to see it.

Good lord! It's a beast, weighs at LEAST 75 lbs and packed so damn tight you couldn't fit a book of matches in there sideways. No water. No containers for water. No clothing or anything with insulation. he did have 3 mylar space blankets. Somewhere.
Some dried food. A little. Food that requires hot water to activate of course. No stove. No pot. Box of trioxane bars, dozens of batteries in every size imaginable. Lots of ammo, no guns. Too many flashlights. 2 or 3 compasses but no maps. Oh and knives, jesus how many knives do you need in a bug out bag?

I had to invite him over to dump the whole damn thing out on the garage floor.
Started over with a basic poncho and quilted liner, 2L stainless pot, decent tarp, 3 pairs of socks and drawers, surplus polar fleece top and bottoms, wool hat, candles, 50 feet or 550 cord and just went from there. I think he's got it down to 15 lbs and can actually use the stuff in there.

Showed him my little Marlin Paposse take down 22LR. Got the gears turning. Think he's looking for a take down 410/22LR now.

 

[mjbskwim]

You need to take him camping. This ain't rocket surgery.
If you go camping a few times you can see what is needed and what may not be.
Then grow in a couple other things.

 

[Camelfilter]

Yeah, go camping, but make it a backpack-in 7-10miles to your first spot.

You quickly realize what you need vs want & make do for next time.

On the subject of BOBs & GHBs, I'd figure one of the most important items (after snacks & some water/water collection/purification) would be maps. Paper maps & compas.

In any event which might make folks use a BOB or GHB, I'd imagine major routes to be an absolute gnarled mess.

Waterway crossings - it'd be nice to know where alternates are, including railway bridges. Rail bridges might still be passable on foot following a quake (obviously depends on how severe).

While major roadway bridges would likely be all snarled up with mobs of people trying to cross, that you may not even be able to get thru a crowd to see if you could do it.

--pistol would be on me, concealed.

 

[Truenorth]

We were talking about going out camping this weekend with the intent of using just our BOB's.
Improvising shelter with a tarp.
Poncho liners and ferns or lightweight hammocks for sleeping.
Found tinder and ferro rod for making fire.
Fishing alpine lakes for protein.
Cooking simple dried foods like brown rice and oatmeal with raisins on coals.
Target practice in uncomfortable shooting positions with .22's on squirrel and crow shoot-n-see targets.

Weather is good right now. Low 50 high 70. No burn ban in effect (yet) for Western Wa.
Good excuse to just go out and stretch the legs in the deep woods for a weekend.

Speaking of water crossings, here's something you might dig...
The USMC ILBE waterproof pack liners are showing up in surplus stores and online now that the internal frame ILBE pack system has been discontinued. (Heavy large pack I'd avoid it.) Smaller Assault pack is ok.
Get some of the liners before they're all gone. They're really well made light weight dry bags. USA built by Seal Line in Seattle WA.
They come in 3 sizes. Prices are typically $10 to $30 each depending on the size and condition.
Large is the MAIN liner (50L).
Medium is the ASSAULT liner (35L). It has a fluorescent orange interior for use as a search and rescue signal marker.
Small is the MACS sack (9L). MACS Stands for MArine Compression Sack.
They all have one way purge valves to help fit in a pack and really do seal water tight.
The MACS is great for separating gear within your ruck and keeping dried food dry.

 

[Camelfilter]

We were talking about going out camping this weekend with the intent of using just our BOB's.
Improvising shelter with a tarp.
Poncho liners and ferns or lightweight hammocks for sleeping.
Found tinder and ferro rod for making fire.
Fishing alpine lakes for protein.
Cooking simple dried foods like brown rice and oatmeal with raisins on coals.
Target practice in uncomfortable shooting positions with .22's on squirrel and crow shoot-n-see targets.

Weather is good right now. Low 50 high 70. No burn ban in effect (yet) for Western Wa.
Good excuse to just go out and stretch the legs in the deep woods for a weekend.

Speaking of water crossings, here's something you might dig...
The USMC ILBE waterproof pack liners are showing up in surplus stores and online now that the internal frame ILBE pack system has been discontinued. (Heavy large pack I'd avoid it.) Smaller Assault pack is ok.
Get some of the liners before they're all gone. They're really well made light weight dry bags. USA built by Seal Line in Seattle WA.
They come in 3 sizes. Prices are typically $10 to $30 each depending on the size and condition.
Large is the MAIN liner (50L).
Medium is the ASSAULT liner (35L). It has a fluorescent orange interior for use as a search and rescue signal marker.
Small is the MACS sack (9L). MACS Stands for MArine Compression Sack.
They all have one way purge valves to help fit in a pack and really do seal water tight.
The MACS is great for separating gear within your ruck and keeping dried food dry.

Sounds like a fun weekend!

Bring some goodies as an unexpected treat (it isn't SHTF --- yet).

On pack liners, give trash compactor bags & tyvek USPS envelopes a try some time. The trash compactor bags are super tough & light weight. The envelopes are decent for organizing.

For sleeping, REI has a 45degree bag which I use in combo with a vapor barrier liner for mild temps. The VBL goes inside the bag. Wool cap, gloves & skivies & I can be comfortable in it in chilly temps. That whole bundle can fit in the bottom of my day bag.

Colder temps, bigger sleeping bag & im entering medium backpack zone. Primarily due to more clothing & more food, stove coffee etc etc.

 

[Joe13]

Both my day pack and hunting pack are water proof.

I still keep large black bags in both just in case I have to cross water.


We are also considering a night out this weekend but I will be the one packing and setting up camp (wife will get a little experience).

She wants to borrow a tent (we used to just sleep in the full size van or trailer but those are both gone so everything has to fit in a rather small trunk.

Figured the kid can sleep in the 2-3 man tent we have and the wife, dog and I will be under a tarp and hopefully have trees enough for a hammock or we are sleeping on dead leaves.

Should be rather nice weather and it's only an hour ish away from home so we may just do a day trip depending on how things go.

 

[bmtm09]

I believe that you should have mission specific bags as well as modifying those for seasons.

A GHB (get home bag) will have a pistol.

A BOB will have a rifle.

+1 for mission specific bags...I have a medical bag a fire and water bag and an arms bag..the med and fire bag are small the arms bag is a bit bigger. I have a duty belt set up with holster mag pouch my cold Steel OSS and assorted goodies. My question is ..Why wouldn't you carry a handgun in a bag if you could? A wise man once said use your handgun to fight your way to a rifle. If shtf I will be carrying minimum two handguns, and my rifle.. one on my hip and one concealed. It's better to be safe than sorry and everything I can bring to bear in a bad situation helps me just that much more