Pistols in bug out bags?

[jcruz907]

Having a banged up back and not being in the best of shape, I've become a big fan of ultralight gear for hiking and camping. While gearing for this is not the same as for bugging out, the principles for keeping weight down will be the same and if you want the best bang for the buck when you don't have a good rifle available at the SHTF moment, having a good pistol on you or in a bag you can access can't be a bad thing.

I've given some serious consideration about what to carry in my chest holster as my last resort after the bear spray when hiking in big critter country and decided on a G20. 15 rounds of .41 mag equivalent rock and roll that I can reasonably control and get quicker follow up shots is hard to beat. While not being the number one choice for Grizzly, it has been known to take them down and will take anything less down easily. Just make sure you're putting 200 grain or better hardcast in it if you think you might end up going up against big Bruins.

 

[Koda]

im guessing if things are so bad you have to leave on foot, a person isnt going to get far enough on foot to make a difference without help from others. The only situation I can see the need for a rifle is during massive looting and rioting, but then... your not getting far on foot in that situation either until things calm down.
problem is in order to get somewhere on foot efficiently you have to put yourself out in the open.... then your back to being a target. Bad guys are going to want that rifle....

 

[Damndirtyape]

In the PNW, I don't think carrying water is a smart thing to do. I just carry a straw filter. Probably 99% of the year, no problem finding water this far north and west.

For defense, I carry two pistols. I am not going to try and protect myself from someone at a rifle distance. Again, 99% of the time people are going to come close first and check you out. IMB a rifle is for offense and hunting. It is heavy and hard to conceal. The amount of ammo needed is even heavier. Most of the time you are just going to be standing out with that rifle slung over the shoulder or across the chest, with it shouting to everyone, come steal me. Nobody is going to see my pistol, especially the second one. Up close, a pistol is much more maneuverable. The pistols are 9mm and .380. I know a lot of you are probably of the 1911 flavor or the bigger the better... Well I qualified with them at 60 feet for my Idaho enhanced so I think if I point and shoot, I am going to hit where I aim. I prefer to not have to reload magazines in the heat of things.

My theory about the two different caliber is when looking for ammo, you only have one chance in finding one type of ammo at a location. With two sizes I have two chances of lucking out. I also have a 40SW so that makes it three chances.

I do have a TC 45-70, for reaching out, but as a single shot, mostly for hunting. It is more important that I have a small book on NW plants to eat and trap wire setups.

Two knives, fire starter, hand warmer round out most of the equipment. I throw in a few cliff bars and then the rest I carry is for bartering.

I have the same EDC bag as pictured above. I don't carry my ham handy though. That is just for emergencies and it is mostly for monitoring what's out there.

Carry a compass and area maps of course, been thinking about making some caches and marking them in matrix on them. No GPS, not that I don't have one.

Automatic Sekio monster shroud watch... You see I am much more a fraud of an EMP than anything else right off the bat. If North Korea attempts an assault that is what I envision them trying for before doing anything else.

 

[DTG]

I was reading this:
https://defensivetraininggroup.word...htf-kit-planning-what-to-have-and-why-part-i/

He has people carrying a pistol and 5 mags and 50 extra rounds minimum. What's that work out to, 6 or 8 pounds?

I always wonder about the utility of pistols in these situations. What is the rifle for, anyway? At least you can hit something with it.

To carry that 8 pounds, you have to give up something else, that might make more sense to bring along. 8 pounds (say 300 rounds) of rifle ammo? A gallon of water? Food?

I can see pistols for a lot of things, such as concealed carry in a "normal" society. Or sitting on your bedstand. But SHTF? Someone please explain to me why a pistol makes any sense. Note, I'm not saying a pistol can never have any use - obviously there are a lot of situations where it would. An M60 would also have some uses. I just don't see how a pistol makes the cut...

This is the actual quote from the post, " Without a weapon (or several for a family), you're just preparing to outfit a feral group of marauders when they come to get what you have. This addition also adds to the weight of what you're carrying, especially when it comes to ammunition. Minimum recommendation for pistol ammo in the ruck is 50 rounds. This doesn't count the ammo in the 5 magazines you're carrying on you."

Extrapolation is that your pistol is on you. At no time did I say the pistol was in your ruck. It's part of your 'kit'. Feel free to comment at the blog when you disagree, or in this case, didn't read the post thoroughly.

Thanks for dropping by!

 

[Ura-Ki]

im curious about the idea of buggin out with a rifle.... seems to me youd be the first one shot for it, or taken away by the police or National Guard when they come thru. I dont see how carrying a rifle makes anyone blend in as the grey man.... Just how far can one get on foot with a rifle if SHTF?

Depends on the rifle! Walking out in day light with any rifle in your hands or over a shoulder is an invitation for trouble. That's why I personally like a small and compact carbine that fits inside a bag or case ( like a interment case or back pack) and that's how I see having a rifle in these situations! A larger and more powerful rifle in my truck ( locked and hidden) is never that far away! For road blocks or other stoppages, these will likely be known about ahead of time, and likely can be bypassed!

 

[CoastRange57]

If North Korea attempts an assault that is what I envision them trying for before doing anything else.

North Korea is not going to do jack. They have no delivery systems capable of reaching the CONUS and if they did the half dozen or so US boomer and attack subs off their coast at any given time will blow anything out of the sky and then glass the country.

 

[CoastRange57]

For road blocks or other stoppages, these will likely be known about ahead of time, and likely can be bypassed!

Every road and bridge will have pirates and blockages. There will be no way to bypass them since every road or transit path will have them. Trying to get around them will require superior firepower, a sh*t ton of ammo, and more people than the OPFOR has.

An insurrection / civil anarchy situation will take a while to develop and should allow people enough time to get home if that is your choice. Natural disaster such as an earthquake may make things a bit more difficult, but the main plan should be to get back to your base and preps. I will just stay home and maintain that 300 yard no entry zone.

Of course if bugging out to somewhere is your thing, then becoming a roaming nomad is a whole different ball game. Being old precludes roaming around.

 

[Ura-Ki]

I think most of us are tracking strait with this and it's good to talk these things through and share thoughts and ideas. What may work one time for one of us may not work for any others. We have to try and knowing what might be ahead of us is what puts us in a different league from every one else. There are going to be a lot of very scared people who have no idea what to do and how to do any thing to help them selves. That in it's self is a serious challenge to each of us. What to do then these people show up in your hood looking for help, any help. These people will need food and water, shelter and warm clothing. Many will need medical care, maybe even our selves, these are the things I think about when I think on these subjects. I see many, many good ideas and observations here and this is really good. Keep it coming.

 

[jcruz907]

North Korea is not going to do jack. They have no delivery systems capable of reaching the CONUS and if they did the half dozen or so US boomer and attack subs off their coast at any given time will blow anything out of the sky and then glass the country.

You're assuming whatever occupies the WH at that time has any understanding about what to do. As ALL of the senior military/intell heads of the current occupant are now telling us, that could be a very big assumption and not at all guaranteed. He prefers to take the advice of the 20-somethings whispering over his shoulder than career senior military/intell folks. And, yes, the PRK do have delivery capability. If they can put it into orbit - which they have shown they can - it can reach us.

 

[PaulB47]

Extrapolation is that your pistol is on you. At no time did I say the pistol was in your ruck.

Yes, that was a goof on my part, in selecting my thread title. My actual post did not imply a gun in the bag. Unfortunately I cannot change the title to "Pistols in bug out kits"; at least I don't think the forum software will let me.

I come down on the side of carrying a rifle rather than pistol, but only just. I don't really think looters are going to mess with you to try to get your rifle; that would be madness on their part. They will go after defenseless people first, getting their food or jewelry or whatever. I do worry about over-reaction by any cops that happen to be around, so that is an argument for a concealed pistol. On the other hand if you want to hit anything you are aiming at, a rifle wins over a pistol hands down. Hmmm... Keltec Sub2000?

 

[PaulB47]

The more I think of it, the more I like a pistol or revolver, but not your typical tiny .380 concealed carry piece. Maybe a hunting style gun like a six-inch .357 Mag Smith 686 with a scope mounted? Still concealable (more or less) but able to hit at a fair distance? Carried in a shoulder holster?

 

[Koda]

North Korea is not going to do jack.

lol yeah, I agree. Every time I see their military photos I laugh.





http://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2013/03/north-korea-puts-its-war-machine-on-display/100481/

 

[Koda]

Depends on the rifle! Walking out in day light with any rifle in your hands or over a shoulder is an invitation for trouble. That's why I personally like a small and compact carbine that fits inside a bag or case ( like a interment case or back pack) and that's how I see having a rifle in these situations! A larger and more powerful rifle in my truck ( locked and hidden) is never that far away! For road blocks or other stoppages, these will likely be known about ahead of time, and likely can be bypassed!

I think it depends on your location. In the country... maybe. In the city not so much you have a 100x more chance your trunk rifle will get stolen than any SHTF scenario happening. If things are that bad then steal a bad guys rifle, then when things settle down you wont feel bad for tossing it in the river.

 

[jcruz907]

lol yeah, I agree. Every time I see their military photos I laugh.

View attachment 288054

View attachment 288055

http://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2013/03/north-korea-puts-its-war-machine-on-display/100481/

We all laughed at the early AQ and ISIS training vids too and yet, they manage to kill thousands over there and conduct ops here by somehow inspiring gene pool rejects who haven't a clue but still take a few unprepared people out - all without having nuclear capability - yet.

In addition, one has to consider the fact that there's a reason we keep a lot of toys and 30,000 troops there. You also can't summarily dismiss the threat posed by a country whose inhabitants know absolutely nothing of the outside world but believe we want them dead and have absolute loyalty to a psycho for a leader with nuke and delivery capability. Think WWII Japanese psychotic fanatical Kamikaze loyalty. Then think who's in the WH and imagine what it might take to get him to act and just how much damage could be done by the time he actually did.

 

[Ura-Ki]

PRK is nothing but a childish regime run by an infantile leader who thinks Denis Rodman is a hero. That they have something like a nuke arsenal is laughable ( for now) and the threat they pose is nothing but terrorist attacks on the southern neighbors. The Russian Federation has imposed the stiffest sanctions yet on them, and this may be the straw that breaks there backs.

The real danger is and always will be China. Unlike NK, China has the worlds largest standing army and is building a navy big enough to challenge one world super power. It's China that poses the biggest threat to us here and they have shown that they are willing to fight any one who challenges them on land rights/claims and that there is nothing any one can do to stop them from taking what they want. It is China that could invade the United States and be able to make it stick. NK has no such ability. In this, the world is on the brink. We need a leader in the WH who under stands the world as it is, and will stop antagonizing Vlad Putin and leave him and Russia the hell alone! Russia really wants to join the rest of the world and they can and would be our biggest and most powerful ally! Forget ISIS and other terrorists, this is the Big problem!

 

[Liberty97045]

I'll buy a keltec when they are the last gun manufacturer on the planet and all my other guns have rusted away
I'm 58 now soooo...... never?

Well, that's your right. I have a Keltec P3AT (.380) as my "convenience carry gun". It is innovative, functional, reliable, accurate and reasonably priced.

As far as the SU-16 goes, It may not be top of the mark but it serves the purpose, who cares? I have better and more expensive rifles but do I want to leave them in the GHB? Not really.

 

[jcruz907]

PRK is nothing but a childish regime run by an infantile leader who thinks Denis Rodman is a hero. That they have something like a nuke arsenal is laughable ( for now) and the threat they pose is nothing but terrorist attacks on the southern neighbors. The Russian Federation has imposed the stiffest sanctions yet on them, and this may be the straw that breaks there backs.

The real danger is and always will be China. Unlike NK, China has the worlds largest standing army and is building a navy big enough to challenge one world super power. It's China that poses the biggest threat to us here and they have shown that they are willing to fight any one who challenges them on land rights/claims and that there is nothing any one can do to stop them from taking what they want. It is China that could invade the United States and be able to make it stick. NK has no such ability. In this, the world is on the brink. We need a leader in the WH who under stands the world as it is, and will stop antagonizing Vlad Putin and leave him and Russia the hell alone! Russia really wants to join the rest of the world and they can and would be our biggest and most powerful ally! Forget ISIS and other terrorists, this is the Big problem!

I totally agree that China is our main strategic threat and has the greatest military capabilities of all the potential threats we face. And I agree that NK is run by a childish madman. Still, the fact remains that childish madman has nukes ad well as a proven capability to place those nukes in orbit. He also possesses significant military capabilities that present a real threat to that region. Also consider that China supplies him with that hardware and no doubt the training to use that hardware if only to use him as the junk yard dog to leverage pressure on the West. Color me stupid if you will, but anyone with nukes and the ability to place them in orbit threatens our homeland and needs to be taken very seriously. You wouldn't dismiss a deranged psychotic 9 year old walking towards your house
with a live grenade would you?

 

[Liberty97045]

This thread was very educational and really got me thinking about a GHB. I am going to put together three backpacks. One for me, one for my wife and one for my adult daughter.

This is my initial list. I tried to control my need to have everything and instead to include things that serve more than one function. The heavier it is, the less likely I am to include it. Conversely, Things that are very light but not essential (like Quick Clot or a drink mix) were more likely to be included.

Most of us set out in the car in the morning and do not dress for the outdoors. So, sweats, walking shoes, socks, poncho, etc. are included. Items also need to be reasonably shelf stable.

I purposely did not include a weapon in this list. I think much of this could be put together from things we already have laying around (like old sweats and walking shoes) The rest could be $100 or so.

• 1 liter Nalgene bottle
• Water purification tablets
• Lifestraw
• 12) Powdered energy drink mix (single serving)
• 3) 3600 calorie Mayday Bar
• 2 pack Plastic Poncho
• Walking shoes / low boots
• Hoody & Sweat pants (grey or black)
• 4) Mylar blankets
• Mylar 2 person tent
• Stocking cap
• Two pair socks
• 2) Two cubic foot stuff bags
• Map of area
• Hand towel
• Lighter
• Fire starter cubes

• 2) 2" Gauze roll
• Band aids
• Quick Clot
• 4 oz Sunscreen
• 2 pair Nitrile gloves
• 2 oz alcohol
• Roll adhesive tape

• Toothbrush
• 2 oz liquid soap
• Sample size toothpaste
• Pack of unscented diaper wipes - dried and in a Ziplock
• 6) 1 quart zip lock bags
• Multi Tool knife
• Small roll duct tape
• 50' para cord

 

[Joe13]

Just my 2 penny's:

• 1 liter Nalgene bottle
• Water purification tablets /no need to double up for a 2-3 day hike

• Lifestraw
• 12) Powdered energy drink mix (single serving)
• 3) 3600 calorie Mayday Bar
• 2 pack Plastic Poncho / black construction bags are more versitile and lighter

• Walking shoes / low boots
• Hoody & Sweat pants (grey or black) / cotton and the PNW don't mix. They get wet and soak up water like a sponge then get heavy - I'd pick up some sporting clothes like running gear that will wick away water
• 4) Mylar blankets
• Mylar 2 person tent / one tarp will do the same plus can be used as a stretcher or many other things
• Stocking cap
• Two pair socks
• 2) Two cubic foot stuff bags
• Map of area
• Hand towel
• Lighter
• Fire starter cubes

• 2) 2" Gauze roll
• Add non stick sterile pads to put over large wounds before you use the gauze to hold it in place
• 
  
• Band aids
• Quick Clot
• 4 oz Sunscreen
• 2 pair Nitrile gloves
• 2 oz alcohol
• Roll adhesive tape

• Toothbrush
• 2 oz liquid soap
• Sample size toothpaste

^^^Extra weight and you can go a few days without

• Pack of unscented diaper wipes - dried and in a Ziplock
• 6) 1 quart zip lock bags
• Multi Tool knife
• Small roll duct tape
• 50' para cord

Mostly, only take what you know you will use to keep things light. And only you will know what is appropriate. If your kid or wife do not know how to use the gear then train them because you don't want to be giving lessons while on the run home.

 

[Ura-Ki]

This thread was very educational and really got me thinking about a GHB. I am going to put together three backpacks. One for me, one for my wife and one for my adult daughter.

This is my initial list. I tried to control my need to have everything and instead to include things that serve more than one function. The heavier it is, the less likely I am to include it. Conversely, Things that are very light but not essential (like Quick Clot or a drink mix) were more likely to be included.

Most of us set out in the car in the morning and do not dress for the outdoors. So, sweats, walking shoes, socks, poncho, etc. are included. Items also need to be reasonably shelf stable.

I purposely did not include a weapon in this list. I think much of this could be put together from things we already have laying around (like old sweats and walking shoes) The rest could be $100 or so.

• 1 liter Nalgene bottle
• Water purification tablets
• Lifestraw
• 12) Powdered energy drink mix (single serving)
• 3) 3600 calorie Mayday Bar
• 2 pack Plastic Poncho
• Walking shoes / low boots
• Hoody & Sweat pants (grey or black)
• 4) Mylar blankets
• Mylar 2 person tent
• Stocking cap
• Two pair socks
• 2) Two cubic foot stuff bags
• Map of area
• Hand towel
• Lighter
• Fire starter cubes

• 2) 2" Gauze roll
• Band aids
• Quick Clot
• 4 oz Sunscreen
• 2 pair Nitrile gloves
• 2 oz alcohol
• Roll adhesive tape

• Toothbrush
• 2 oz liquid soap
• Sample size toothpaste
• Pack of unscented diaper wipes - dried and in a Ziplock
• 6) 1 quart zip lock bags
• Multi Tool knife
• Small roll duct tape
• 50' para cord

Great list, just about every thing a person would need. I would switch the stuff sacks to few Dry Bags to compartmentalize these items. That makes these water proof and easier to get at what you need, when you need. You are definitely on the right track.