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Pistol/Rifle Combo Loads

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by Dyjital, Sep 14, 2015.

  1. Dyjital

    Dyjital Albany, Ore Flavorite Member Bronze Supporter

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    Ok gents, explain this to me.

    I'm loading/shooting .357 Magnum.

    Currently I have a mix load setup where I mix and match the "rifle" loads and the "pistol" loads when I browse Hodgdon's website. Normally I'll shoot either in the GP100 or the R92.
    http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/

    I've been loading for a "hunting" round 125gr XTP's. I put 18.5gr of IMR 4227 behind them and they ZIP ALONG in the 16" barrel. As of late I've decided that two POI/POA's is getting to where I don't want to calculate this anymore.

    Source #1:
    357Mag 125 and 158.PNG

    Now when I look up Rifle Loads it gives me specifically the 158gr XTP with 4227 which gives me some rather quick velocities.



    So, with that rifle stuff said..
    My typical plinking load (rifle and revolver) is a 158gr Berry's RN that I'm dropping 6.0 grains of CFE Pistol:
    357Mag 158 pistol.PNG

    Now.... let's get to the meat of this.

    If I load up the 158gr XTP's with CFE Pistol I will gain a hundred maybe two of velocity over the revolver chrono they list there. Their test is a 10" barrel.

    If the targeted load is for hunting, would it be best to stick with 4227 as the slow magnum powder to achieve that maximum velocity and use the CFE Pistol for plinking loads? What's stopping me from using that same recipe as the 158gr XTP's when I'm using the 158gr Berry's RN...

    Time to drop the CFE Pistol and only load these 357 Magnum with 4227? Make it all consistent?


    What's your guys' thoughts?
    What would you do?





    sidebar: I've used the CFE mainly as a cost cutter. There was no sense running the more expensive (by volume) loads when I'm just shooting steel with the pistol or ringing a gong at 200yd.
     
  2. oremike

    oremike Creswell, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I like to keep my lead target/plinking loads down about 1000 fps to keep the leading down to a minimum, plus they are pleasant to shoot and accurate. I don't use the same powders you do but it looks like your CFE load would be this type of load. For my jacketed hunting/self defense loads I load to the higher end of velocity with a slower type of powder the 4227 would be this type of powder. One other thing is the slower powder should show a better velocity increase in the rifle vs.the pistol than the faster powder.
     
  3. SinisterSouthpaw

    SinisterSouthpaw SW WA Active Member

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    You might want to keep in mind that plated bullets like Berry's are not going to stand up to hot loads like the jacketed XTPs. Berry used to have a warning to use lead bullet load data on their website. I've never had any problems with Berry or any other plated bullets I have used, but I do keep the loads a bit lighter than when loading jacketed pills.

    In ye olden days the cowboys et. al. used to shoot the same cartridges in both their revolver and rifle. Cowboy action folks do the same these days. I know some folks who do the CA matches and they like the 158 gr. weight. I know they use one load for the two gunsm but I'm thinking they shoot a pretty light (even for lead) load for matches. You might want to call Berry and ask about how the plated bullet will work in a rifle using the same load as the pistol--I'd bet it will be ok as long as the load is kept within reason--using the xtps for both would seem to present no problem--except maybe with the wallet.........
     
  4. Dyjital

    Dyjital Albany, Ore Flavorite Member Bronze Supporter

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    Thanks.

    My plated Bullets (or cast) never exceed 1300-ish fps (off the top of my head)....

    Only the XTP's go above that.

    That's part of the reason I was asking because I'm trying to switch myself from two different grain Bullets and different velocities.

    The other reason I ask was if anyone else had two loads they ran for handgun and pistol on every day use. I want to load one setup that's safe for both. Assuming I can stuff anything in either and it's safe.

    This would also require some velocity (lowering the powder load) drop when using the Berrys to keep within spec but would allow the use of a single cartridge setup across pistol and rifle....



    Update:
    Berrys maximum is listed at 1250- which isn't exceeded when reloading.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2015
  5. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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    Lots of variables in reloading so I can't tell you one exact recipe to load that would fit both rifle and pistol and be accurate enough to hunt with. You have twist of rifling to deal with, are they the same in both gun? Barrel length of each? Powder burning rates vary so barrel length is important.

    What is the game you will be hunting? Weight of bullets should be picked for size of game and distance you will be hunting. Plus the weight of bullet has to match rifling for best accuracy. Lots of different weights may be good enough but most guns have one weight they shoot best due to the barrel harmonics. To give you a better idea of what I am talking about, Browning puts an adjustment system on rifle barrels to tune the harmonics for different weight bullets.

    Yes I know I am taking this too far:D.

    For heavy jacketed 357 I like 296 or h110 (they are the same powder) lead I like 2400 for heavy load and unique for plinking.
     
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  6. Dyjital

    Dyjital Albany, Ore Flavorite Member Bronze Supporter

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  7. SinisterSouthpaw

    SinisterSouthpaw SW WA Active Member

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    Let's see if we really understand what you're asking---
    You want to load for rifle and pistol, using the same cases primers and powder--topped by two different bullets, both 158 gr. for a .357 magnum? You want to keep the XTPs running at a velocity suitable for hunting, but want to use plated bullets--for practice/plinking?

    Certainly you should be able to set up your dies to accomodate both bullets as long as they seat about the same depth which they probably will. I have this same setup for my 32 HRM where I use 100 gr. plated bullets in my carry gun for practice and 100 gr. XTPs for the real world. The only variable is the powder drop-- both use N-340, just a lighter load for the plated bullets. the only difference I can see in what you want to do is the introduction of the longer barrel into the mix. So---

    Running this all through Quickload gives us a nice safe load with about 15 gr. of 4227 @ a MV of 1107 fps with the bullet seated to .35" shot from a 4.5" barrel, using the HPXTP, since you did not mention whether you are using the FP or the HP. Changing the barrel length to 20" changed the MV to 1578 fps, not good for the Berrys. Substituting a Rainier RN plated bullet (QL has no data for Berry, but they are just alike as far as I can see; I use both) changed the MV so little as to be of no consequence. I had to take the powder charge down to 12 gr. to get the bullet to fly below 1250 fps. in the rifle barrel.

    Being squib shy as I am, I did not like the low chamber pressure of the 12 gr. load, but a quick look at my Hornady manual which lists loads for .357 mag. rifle, reveals that they think it safe although it is the minimum load for that weight jacketed bullet. They unfortunately did not list any of the same powders for the 158 gr. lead bullets, which would have been about the same as plated as far as the load goes. The slowest powder they listed for lead was Unique. Same situation in the pistol section........

    Hope this helps a little.
     
    Dyjital likes this.
  8. Dyjital

    Dyjital Albany, Ore Flavorite Member Bronze Supporter

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    @SinisterSouthpaw

    Exactly!

    So keep the CFE for the plinking loads then. That will keep my velocities down and only use the 4227 for rifle hunting.