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Pistol Caliber versus Rifle caliber for carbines

Discussion in 'Rifle Discussion' started by CamoDeafie, Jun 21, 2016.

  1. CamoDeafie

    CamoDeafie Albany Well-Known Member

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    For arrow-10x10.png discussion, and let's make this simple, a Pistol Caliber is simply a caliber most commonly used in Pistols, ranging from revolvers to handguns (let's not talk about the special ones that uses rifle cartridges..), and a Rifle Caliber being a caliber used most commonly in Rifles as opposed to other firearms, ranging from simple break opens all the way to Semi-Automatic magazine fed rifles, outside the purview of the NFA and FOPA regulations.

    At what point, or in what situations, would it make more sense to have a Pistol Caliber carbine, as opposed to a Rifle Caliber carbine? Given that the price ranges for either are pretty much equal......

    I own a Pistol Caliber carbine, specifically a Hi Point 995, because of the following reasons;
    1) Economical. It was $210 OTD at the time.
    2) Ammo commonality with my SD handgun, a Ruger P85
    3) Ammo is relatively cheap, and plentiful
    4) I don't foresee using this carbine at ranges beyond 100 yards.. In the Valley, we simply do not have much in between roads...
    5) Gave me a great excuse to make tactical gear tailored for the unique 20rd magazines.
    6) 20rd magazines are at a decent price compared to the Factory 10rd magazines.

    But.....
    I am saving up for a rifle caliber carbine, and waiting until the panic buying settle down.....and waiting to see what the politics are like by this November... It would be either an AR type, OR a lever action 30-30...

    Right now, my economical, old Hi Point 995 fills the duty of being the "scary ugly black tactical defense rifle" with the chest rig and 20rd magazines... and is my companion to the Ruger P85 on my belt when hiking and camping in the National Forests... and is always at my bedside... But I am looking at a possibility of a Rifle Caliber carbine, depending on what's out there when November comes around... an AR15 tickles my fancy yes, but they are pretty much hard to find right now.

    What do you guys think? Is there any real good reason for anyone to have a pistol caliber carbine, other than sharing ammo with their handgun?
     
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  2. Doc In UPlace

    Doc In UPlace Tacoma-ish Well-Known Member

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    Sure, being able to use the maximum power available in the pistol cartridge due to the longer dwell time in the barrel, the increased accuracy that a stock, longer sight radius or optics would provide, and maybe a larger magazine capacity than the pistol could normally hold.
    Power accuracy and capacity.
     
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  3. AndyinEverson

    AndyinEverson Everson, Wa. Well-Known Member

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    I like pistol / revolver caliber carbines.
    Light in recoil , easy to aim and hit with . Depending on caliber it can have plenty of punch for deer , bear or any two legged vermin.

    That being said , sometimes you need a rifle cartridge to do the job right.
    AR 15's are very nice to shoot and have a lot going for them.
    But if you are going to hunt , a .30-30 carbine might make more sense. Is that in your future?
    You legally hunt big and small game with the .30-30 in most cases , but the same can't be said of the .556 cartridge. ( again in most cases )
    In a more practical sense , any gun is "tactical" , its all in how you you use it.
    If it was me ... as nice and useful as a AR15 is I'd go with a .30-30 carbine.
    For my tastes it is more appealing.
    Andy
     
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  4. erudne

    erudne The Pie Matrix PPL Say Sleeping W/Your Rifle Is A bad Thing? Bronze Supporter

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    My tax dollars were spent on decades long studies meant to make pretend specialists rich and funnel tax dollars back to corrupt politicians. Do you honestly think I'm gonna disregard generational theft, and their findings that prove that tiny bullets hurt more than big bullets?o_O
     
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  5. CamoDeafie

    CamoDeafie Albany Well-Known Member

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    a 7.65x25 Tok carbine would be very interesting.. no?
     
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  6. erudne

    erudne The Pie Matrix PPL Say Sleeping W/Your Rifle Is A bad Thing? Bronze Supporter

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    If you mean the 30 Mauser then yes. The 10mm would be good as well. Neither paid for by your tax dollars:p
     
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  7. CamoDeafie

    CamoDeafie Albany Well-Known Member

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    good points on the other two posters!

    I find it interesting that another forum, one ostensibly geared for Hi Point owners.. for the very same topic, the majority of responses are basically "Rifles better. Higher MVs. Flat trajectory. Longer range. AR15s great for CQB. No reason to have a PCC, unless you're purposely limiting yourself to pistol ammo"
    Even to the point that someone even says "Simple. Get an AR in 7.62x39 for hunting" :rolleyes:
     
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  8. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Sub Light Speed Well-Known Member

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    It really all comes down to what you want the tool to do, and you can work around its limits! In my mind, a bigger version of the Taraus circuit Judge that is able to handle .45/70 as well as .45 colt and to a limmited extent .410 shot shells would certainly make the perfect combo rifle carbine! When combined with a Colt or S/W pistol in .45 Colt would make an awesome pair! Plus. its Old school Cool, with a modern twist! I never want a AR for all round use, its limits are to many for me, same with the .30 carbine. Any of the more powerful lever guns in say, .44 mag, or .45 colt would be super useful all round! Hell, even .357 mag or 10 mm would really blow my skirt up!
     
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  9. CamoDeafie

    CamoDeafie Albany Well-Known Member

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    There's a .357 Sig carbine, or two out there... then TNW Aero Survival Rifle in 10mm and .357 Sig as well.. I wonder on the ballistics of these, but again, they look like AR15 based designs.
    Unfortunately, the 10mm is not a rimmed case, and the pressure of it, may preclude the use of anything less beefy than a bolt action or a semi auto blowback receiver, and not a lever (not sure what chamber pressure it is compared to the .45-70 or .50-110?)
     
  10. MountainBear

    MountainBear Sweet Home, OR Well-Known Member

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    .30-30 loaded with 110 grain semi jacketed soft points. Fantastic light load!
     
  11. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    I want a rimless case cartridge carbine that feeds well, is lethal on mid sized game like deer out to 100yds or so, but with big-time stopping power at close range for use against bears/cats etc.

    If I could do to the 10mm what was done to the .357 Max, that should be about right.
    And have it in a platform no bigger than the .30 carbine with a folding buttstock I'd be a happy camper.
     
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  12. erudne

    erudne The Pie Matrix PPL Say Sleeping W/Your Rifle Is A bad Thing? Bronze Supporter

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    IMHO There is no need to chase PPCs: The 556 was developed to eclipse the 9mm and fill the 350 meter kill zone not covered by Arty in the combined arms "hail of death" Invented by NATO to convince euro civilians that they would be both annihilated and protected at the same time, really. you had to be there...an entire nation with a 20 minute life-span, and yet the birth rate dropped........o_O
     
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  13. Bretts300aac

    Bretts300aac Spokane New Member

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    I would opt for a ar15 in 300 blackout for 30/30 proformance in a 30 rd package 30 30 is a great rifle,however I like ar15 you can make them really compact and suppressor friendly optic ready better and,light weight I have a 16" and a 7" pistol both are great run to shoot plus I like to recycle shoot 100 rds 556 make 100 rds of 300 blackout works great;)
     
  14. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Let see I have

    A carbine caliber handgun
    A couple rifle/carbine caliber combos
    and rifles and handguns that use the same ammo which is both rifle carbine and handgun

    I'm so confused.
     
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  15. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Have you tried the Sierra 125gr FPHP its a flat point hollow point designed for the tubular magazines. Very accurate 100-150 yard round. I also use them in my 30 Carbine Ruger Blackhawk.
     
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  16. MountainBear

    MountainBear Sweet Home, OR Well-Known Member

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    No, I haven't tried those. This is the Speer 110gr. Nice flat point as well...

    image.jpeg
     
  17. H2O MAN

    H2O MAN Georgia - USA Well-Known Member

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    My rifle caliber of choice is the .308 / 7.62 NATO
    I fire it from a full size rifle, and a carbine version of the same rifle.

    I do own a sub gun that fires the same 9mm rounds that my pistols fire.

    Bases covered.
     
  18. PaulB47

    PaulB47 Hillsboro Well-Known Member

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    A pistol-caliber carbine is almost always going to be better than a pistol. Where it falls down compared to a regular carbine (e.g. M4 type) is penetrating vests. Might be a factor in home invasions. Also, the M4 type is better in not over-penetrating walls if the correct ammo is used. This sounds like having your cake and eating it too - better penetration of vests, less penetration of walls. o_O

    On the other hand, pistol-caliber carbines are not going to ruin your hearing if they are used in a defensive shooting without hearing protection.
     
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  19. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Fan of pistol caliber carbines here :cool:

    As to the OP, I've owned a HiPoint 995 myself (sold it for something else). A pretty decent gun for the price - better than their pistols in my opinion. Biggest drawback are those darn single stack magazines. I might still have one today if it weren't for that limitation.
     
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  20. H2O MAN

    H2O MAN Georgia - USA Well-Known Member

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    .22WMR pistols & carbines are an interesting choice for home invasion defensive shooting.

    45 gr. projectiles reach 1700+ fps from a 16.1" barrel.
    Light weight, compact, and little perceived recoil.
    Loud as hell though, but easily suppressed.

    CMR-1.JPG

    The same projectile exits the 5" pistol barrel at 1300+ fps
    Both use the same 30 round magazines that fit in the grip, no protrusion.

    critical-defense-22wmr-pkg.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2016
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