National Pistol Brace rule Dropped!

[RX-79G]

Congress can pass new laws, such as a national AWB, which ATF can enforce. The point I'm making (and that you are studiously trying to ignore) is that door to door enforcement by the ATF has happened recently. Consequently, it's not outside the realm of possibility that if laws change and SBRs are banned such enforcement actions could take place again.

I'm not ignoring anything, I just don't see why you think SBR owners are going to be special targets or why SBRs are at all likely to suddenly be banned. On this very same forum it is being suggested that the Supreme Court is going to overturn SBRs being in the NFA. I frankly don't get where you guys are getting this stuff.

And, as I have repeatedly pointed out, if SBRs become illegal and the ATF wants mine, they can have it. It's one of the cheapest guns I own, and several others came to me by private sale. Or I can just remove the stock. So whatever scenario I'm supposed to be afraid of, I'm not. Because no combination of craziness is going to make my actions criminal.

 

[RX-79G]

There have been a number of firearm laws proposed or threatened within the last couple years in Democrat/socialist/Marxist occupied states which provide no "grandfather clause". One example is the extreme leftist governor of Connecticut, who wants to confiscate ALL "assault weapons" (CT Insider 11/04/22). This movement will expand, and the leftist sheep of California, Oregon and Washington will blindly follow. Laws prohibiting SBRs, especially of the "assault weapon" variety, will be an easy mark, and the ATF will have no problem handing over any list to those states who intend on confiscating them.

Except for that pesky 5th Amendment and the cost of confiscation.

Politicians can say they are going to confiscate guns, build a wall or make all cars electric. But saying such things isn't the same as meeting the enormous legal and economic burdens required to do so.

Especially when a Governor has no powers to do such a thing.

 

[Rkangel]

You made your choice. I made my choice. Neither one of us are criminals at this point in time, and neither one of us has any guarantee we will remain that way regardless of what form we signed or didn't sign. You can trust the AFT not to be fickle if that makes you happy. Personally, I don't believe they have earned that trust. The last ten years of their schizophrenic rule changes is not conspiracy theory. They have shown a pattern of behavior and a desire for more.

 

[RX-79G]

You made your choice. I made my choice. Neither one of us are criminals at this point in time, and neither one of us has any guarantee we will remain that way regardless of what form we signed or didn't sign. You can trust the AFT not to be fickle if that makes you happy. Personally, I don't believe they have earned that trust. The last ten years of their schizophrenic rule changes is not conspiracy theory.

I haven't done anything more risky than anyone else. You put your identity on every 4473, just like I put on the form 1. No one is looking negatively at SBRs at this point, and being registered NFA items they might spare an AR from a regular ban - but I don't think that matters as nothing like that is about to be banned.

So I really don't see what special danger you're warning against with SBRs. The ATF knows about some of my guns, and some of your guns.

 

[sobo]

You are aware that 1928 Thompson is both a MG and an SBR? 10" barrel, rifle stock. The NFA banned semiauto versions.

You sure about that?

 

[Yarome]

I haven't done anything more risky than anyone else. You put your identity on every 4473, just like I put on the form 1. No one is looking negatively at SBRs at this point, and being registered NFA items they might spare an AR from a regular ban - but I don't think that matters as nothing like that is about to be banned.

So I really don't see what special danger you're warning against with SBRs. The ATF knows about some of my guns, and some of your guns.

Speak for yourself... not for others... but if "everyone else is doing it too" makes you feel better... more power to you! It's not really necessary to justify your own choices to others though.

I saw the writing on the wall years ago and don't do 4473's either. Beside the point, but we'll just ignore the fact that state level, privately held documentation that "may" one day make it into the hands of the fed gooberment within a persons lifetime and registering yourself on a national registry with the feebs in real time are completely different animals. Oh yes, that's right... "if you did a BCG the gooberment already has your info saved"... but that's just a conspiracy theory, right? Seeing how that would be illegal and all.

You can try to confine it to "no one is looking negatively at SBR's at this point" to debate the point others are making... but they do in fact fall under the AW classification which are in fact soundly on the dem's radar. But let's ignore that too...

Let's also ignore that for many states... reclassification as an SBR effectively "banned" ownership of a persons firearm (where braced pistols are legal, but SBR's are not)... so, effectively, does "nothing like that is about to be banned" really hold water when law abiding citizens have had their lawfully owned firearms banned(?)

Chalk it all up to conspiracy theories, but history shows us that many of yesteryear "conspiracy theories" are todays reality. Will every theory come true? Nope. Is it prudent to learn from history and plan beyond today for potential eventualities that may come back to haunt you? I would say, yes.

No reply is desired... just food for thought.

 

[RX-79G]

You sure about that?

View attachment 1432001 View attachment 1432005View attachment 1432004

I said that the MFA bannrd a semi version of a rifle with a 10" barrel. What dont you understand?

 

[RX-79G]

Speak for yourself... not for others... but if "everyone else is doing it too" makes you feel better... more power to you! It's not really necessary to justify your own choices to others though.

I saw the writing on the wall years ago and don't do 4473's either. Beside the point, but we'll just ignore the fact that state level, privately held documentation that "may" one day make it into the hands of the fed gooberment within a persons lifetime and registering yourself on a national registry with the feebs in real time are completely different animals. Oh yes, that's right... "if you did a BCG the gooberment already has your info saved"... but that's just a conspiracy theory, right? Seeing how that would be illegal and all.

You can try to confine it to "no one is looking negatively at SBR's at this point" to debate the point others are making... but they do in fact fall under the AW classification which are in fact soundly on the dem's radar. But let's ignore that too...

Let's also ignore that for many states... reclassification as an SBR effectively "banned" ownership of a persons firearm (where braced pistols are legal, but SBR's are not)... so, effectively, does "nothing like that is about to be banned" really hold water when law abiding citizens have had their lawfully owned firearms banned(?)

Chalk it all up to conspiracy theories, but history shows us that many of yesteryear "conspiracy theories" are todays reality. Will every theory come true? Nope. Is it prudent to learn from history and plan beyond today for potential eventualities that may come back to haunt you? I would say, yes.

No reply is desired... just food for thought.

Food for thpught: every bam you could mention has a grandfather clause due to the 5th Amendment

 

[Yarome]

Food for thpught: every ban you could mention has a grandfather clause due to the 5th Amendment

Seriously? Just to name a couple of the most blatantly obvious... bump stocks or FRT's ring any bells?? That was easy....

 

[GWS]

You absolutely can be a criminal for complying with government regulations... when those regulations change on you. That's exactly what happened with pistol braces. First it was "OK" per the "experts" at the ATF. 10 years later it's suddenly not OK anymore, and if you don't comply you're a felon.

So it sounds like what you're saying is "if you CONTINUE to comply you won't be a criminal". So what happens when they push for nationwide AWB again? The ATF would then be sitting on a giant list of folks with "assault weapons". Would they use it to enforce a new law? Your guess is as good as mine, but I'd say there's a greater than 0% chance that they would.

You carry a gun "just in case something bad happens". Many people will not take advantage of an "amnesty registration" for the same reason. If you feel comfortable with getting a tax free NFA item, then great - I'm happy for you. Go do it, and have fun. But when other people don't feel the same way and aren't willing to play the odds that their registration won't turn into confiscation down the road, it's worth remembering that history is littered with examples of that actually happening.

I've been listening to these arguments since the Roos-Roberti Act was enacted in the PRK back in 1989, and confiscations have NEVER happened. No midnight raids. No SWAT teams going up and down streets with bullhorns blaring "Bring out your assault weapons!"
America is a lot of things but a fascist dictatorship is not one of them and I, for one, have better things to do with my time than worry about what might happen. Yes there may some day, somewhere that they might come after my guns. An asteroid might slam into the earth as well or I might even win the lotto. Whatever. I'll deal with it if it happens, when it happens. Life's too short to worry about things that might or might never happen.

Go shooting, hunting fishing, reload some ammo or chase women or drink fine wine or see an opera or a 3 Stooges short. Live your life, support pro-gun people and go about your business

 

[Reperio]

Food for thpught: every bam you could mention has a grandfather clause due to the 5th Amendment

So the pistol brace users in the states that had already banned SBR’s, but pistol braces were legal, are grandfathered in. Good to know.

 

[sobo]

I said that the MFA bannrd a semi version of a rifle with a 10" barrel. What dont you understand?

What is wrong with your attitude? Is that your immediate go-to when someone asks, "Are you sure about that?"

It ain't banned! What don't you understand?

In case you forgot, you said (and note the highlighting):

You are aware that 1928 Thompson is both a MG and an SBR? 10" barrel, rifle stock. The NFA banned semiauto versions.

I'm happen to have the semi version of the M1928 Thompson, with 10-inch barrel and rifle stock. Everything that you said in your post above, that in the semi-auto version, is banned by the NFA. I refute your claim. The NFA, in fact, has not banned this gun. As I said, I own one. Explain yourself...

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Registration comes down to one simple question. What advantages do you get from registering? ...besides getting permission to own or do something that should already be protected under the constitution....

It is not a contract that protects you from any future bans, confiscation, or prison time. It doesn't protect you from corruption, liability, lawsuits, or harassment. It doesn't give you freedom to travel, or carry loaded in your car, or live in a state that has a ban.

What does registration give the AFT? Who you are, where you live, what you own, where you are going, when you go, and how to get to you.
Some (apparently 250k) may find that a fair trade while others (as much as 39,750,000) didn't.

Spot on. Some think about it in terms of risk (Fe potential future confiscation) vs reward (Fe legality, configure weapon how you want, saving $200 on a gun you would sbr anyway). This "risk vs. reward" is how I choose to think about it personally.

In contrast, some people think in terms of fear. Some fear future confiscation so don't register. Some fear prosecution so do register.

For me I would rather soberly consider the risks vs rewards and act accordingly. Most of us own more than one gun. So registering some of our guns doesn't incur that much risk, fe if one has more than one lower for an AR pistol then losing one would not have much real-world impact in the rare chance that it happened.

The bottom line is to respect others choices whether they act out of fear one way or the other or they weigh "risk vs reward" or whatever their thinking is. For me I'm damn happy to finally be able to configure some guns exactly as I want after weighing the risks vs rewards.

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• ilikegunspdx
• Mar 24, 2023

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• ilikegunspdx
• May 14, 2023

 

[The Heretic]

What I want to know is WHO has the money to afford a nuke?

Googling the cost, it appears that a small nuke would cost between $50-100M

So besides the government, anybody with $100M or more in cash. That would be near 10 thousand people.

 

[RX-79G]

What is wrong with your attitude? Is that your immediate go-to when someone asks, "Are you sure about that?"

It ain't banned! What don't you understand?

In case you forgot, you said (and note the highlighting):

I'm happen to have the semi version of the M1928 Thompson, with 10-inch barrel and rifle stock. Everything that you said in your post above, that in the semi-auto version, is banned by the NFA. I refute your claim. The NFA, in fact, has not banned this gun. As I said, I own one. Explain yourself...

Banned outside of the NFA.

No one, including you, was confused about what I meant.

 

[RX-79G]

So the pistol brace users in the states that had already banned SBR’s, but pistol braces were legal, are grandfathered in. Good to know.

You can keep and mount your brace stock on any legal rifle or SBR you want.

But I meant that all the guns have been grandfathered. They even grandfathered stolen military guns in the 70s. There has been zero gun confiscation.

 

[PiratePast40]

IMO, sounds like many are making the case that, because of the SBR/brace ruling, ALL NFA items are now subject to confiscation at any time. I'm not seeing how that makes sense. Yes, I agree that people with NFA items comprise a smaller subset of all firearms owners, so is easier to track, but I just don't understand how having a SBR is suddenly a tag for confiscation, regardless of if it is from a standard registration or the new forbearance. Are people saying that owning registered suppressors is now a reason to fear confiscation?

 

[1775usmc]

What is wrong with your attitude? Is that your immediate go-to when someone asks, "Are you sure about that?"

It ain't banned! What don't you understand?

In case you forgot, you said (and note the highlighting):

I'm happen to have the semi version of the M1928 Thompson, with 10-inch barrel and rifle stock. Everything that you said in your post above, that in the semi-auto version, is banned by the NFA. I refute your claim. The NFA, in fact, has not banned this gun. As I said, I own one. Explain yourself...

He’s just better than you…. Knows more….. And he will expend all his oxygen and brain power to prove it. Haha.

 

[bradsteen]

IMO, sounds like many are making the case that, because of the SBR/brace ruling, ALL NFA items are now subject to confiscation at any time. I'm not seeing how that makes sense. Yes, I agree that people with NFA items comprise a smaller subset of all firearms owners, so is easier to track, but I just don't understand how having a SBR is suddenly a tag for confiscation, regardless of if it is from a standard registration or the new forbearance. Are people saying that owning registered suppressors is now a reason to fear confiscation?

In the last few years we have seen ATF actively confiscating formerly legal items (solvent traps and FRT/WOTs) and overstepping their authority by revising federal law to make millions of formerly law abiding citizens de facto felons via the pistol brace rule. At the same time we have seen multiple states pass the most restrictive gun laws in the history of the US, some without grandfather clauses on existing owned weapons. We have also seen multiple attempts at a national level to institute further gun control legislation including another AWB, and some of those attempts did not provide a grandfather clause on existing owned items.

Legal recourse is being sought in all cases where there is impact to citizens. That path seems pretty clear right now simply because SCOTUS has a majority that appears to favor a more strict constitutional interpretation. However, that path could get rocky real quick if a sitting justice falls ill or dies - then Biden will appoint a liberal justice and most hopes of winning legal challenges will be dashed.

Nobody is claiming there's going to be midnight raids or door-to-door confiscation of SBRs. I doubt we will see swarms of agents with bullhorns shouting "surrender your assault weapons" - that's a little too DPRK, even for some of the most anti-gun folks, and they are definitely image-conscious enough to recognize that such things would not go over well. But the above imply the possibility of laws changing at some point in the future, demonstrate the willingness of certain enforcement agencies to participate in "more proactive enforcement measures", and show that legal recourse is not a sure thing, even in our post-Bruen world.

So IF laws change in the future and IF those laws do not allow for grandfathering of existing items and IF law enforcement is tasked with ensuring compliance with those new laws, then a person's options for noncompliance will be limited if they have NFA items. That's not a logical leap, it's acknowledging reality.

Maybe you don't think any of the above will ever happen - great, enjoy your SBR. Maybe you acknowledge the possibility but decide it's unlikely. Also great, enjoy your SBR. I acknowledge the possibility and prefer to keep my options for noncompliance open should those things come to pass. I'll wait till the existing court cases hit SCOTUS and see what happens.

 

[1775usmc]

I got SBRs and Suppressors.

Downs + Superman + Michelangelo = F-ck You!