National Pistol Brace rule Dropped!

[Yarome]

Got approved for 3 pistol brace eForm 1s

Above link is a Reddit thread. Comparing numbers as of this morning there have been 73,000+ tax free submissions in the last 21 days. Far more than I expected.

Wow. That really does open up the question of conditional, hu.

It's confusing enough already and wont touch that one.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Wow. That really does open up the question of conditional, hu.

It's confusing enough already and wont touch that one.

I think it just means subject to the new rule, as opposed to regular SBR. fe no marking required, etc. But that's only a guess.

From the reddit:

"The last page of the PDF said this:

Approval conditions: Pursuant to ATF Final Rule 2021R-08F."

 

[CamoDeafie]

Got approved for 3 pistol brace eForm 1s

Above link is a Reddit thread. Comparing numbers as of this morning there have been 73,000+ tax free submissions in the last 21 days. Far more than I expected.

Fascinating. There's one person on that thread that brought up an interesting question.

Wow. That really does open up the question of conditional, hu.

It's confusing enough already and wont touch that one.

Yeah.... something weird going on. Says no tax stamp apparently because if no tax paid, no stamp, just "tax exempt conditional approval"?

I think it just means subject to the new rule, as opposed to regular SBR. fe no marking required, etc. But that's only a guess.

From the reddit:

"The last page of the PDF said this:

Yeah..


The interesting question..

If the Final Rule gets overthrown, because that tax exempt status is conditional; it means if you got approved but then that rule gets overturned, you better not have installed a stock on it because now it's back to an actual unregistered SBR which requires a $200 tax stamp?

 

[Yarome]

I think it just means subject to the new rule, as opposed to regular SBR. fe no marking required, etc. But that's only a guess.

From the reddit:

"The last page of the PDF said this:

That's kinda what I got too, but they did bring up some interesting questions... IE., what does it mean when the rule get's rammed sideways back up brandons lower brain hole(?)

And how exactly is that supposed to work on scrutiny with no stamp in the interim(??)

 

[CamoDeafie]

That's kinda what I got too, but they did bring up some interesting questions... IE., what does it mean when the rule get's rammed sideways back up brandons lower brain hole(?)

And how exactly is that supposed to work on scrutiny with no stamp in the interim(??)

Might be why they suggested printing your pdf copies of submission as proof of compliance until you get the approval pdfs and then print those out?

 

[Yarome]

Might be why they suggested printing your pdf copies of submission as proof of compliance until you get the approval pdfs and then print those out?

Well yeah... but if the approval pdf's are conditional status and no actual stamp... how does that work if a person get's jammed up and what affect does it have on the conditional if the rule is struck out. Like they were talking about repercussions on forebarance(?) Voiding the app to revert to pre rule(?) Gonna get a bill if exemption is nullified(?)

I dunno about any of it and dont think any of that has even been addressed, but plenty of food for thought and some valid questions, hu.

To note: I'm not asking.Just rhetorical questions since I don't believe anyone has answers to those yet. It certainly wasn't covered in the rule or subsequent info out of the alphbet.

 

[GWS]

Well yeah... but if the approval pdf's are conditional status and no actual stamp... how does that work if a person get's jammed up and what affect does it have on the conditional if the rule is struck out. Like they were talking about repercussions on forebarance(?) Voiding the app to revert to pre rule(?) Gonna get a bill if exemption is nullified(?)

I dunno about any of it and dont think any of that has even been addressed, but plenty of food for thought and some valid questions, hu.

My advice would be do NOT put a stock on the weapon until you have the actual tax stamp in hand.

 

[CamoDeafie]

My advice would be do NOT put a stock on the weapon until you have the actual tax stamp in hand.

But if there actually is no tax stamp to go with the conditionally approved registration?

 

[Yarome]

My advice would be do NOT put a stock on the weapon until you have the actual tax stamp in hand.

That is the safest route. Don't do anything until the gooberment gives you express permission( ) ... but that also goes against standard practice that... unless it is specifically prohibited then it remains legal. It's clear from them that they do not diffentiate between a stock or brace. They have also not qualified any conditions during the application process. It seems a very important point to mention (if it matters) and neglecting to do so would imply that it doesn't and is allowed.

If you're going for "safest" though... simply get rid of anything not clearly a handgun or rifle and don't even "play the game". Can't loose if you don't play.

To each their own.

The question being raised though is if a stamp is actually even going to be issued or remain simply a conditional approval only on paper. If so, does it have the same affect as a stamp(?)

Inquiring minds and all that!

 

[Yarome]

What I thought was interesting is some of those folks that have already put in 40, 70, 110 app's... and still have more to do.

It makes you wonder about the supposed 70k applications so far. How many are actually people with existing pistols complying with the rule and how many simply geared up like mad just to take advantage of the free stamp to generate hordes of brand new SBR lowers for future builds(?) MFG's, and/or FFL's submitting entire inventories(?)

 

[GWS]

The guy looked up his Form 1s on the ATF site and saw they were approved. He has not received any hard copies yet. Kind of like getting a WA CCW. They'll tell you you're approved and then tell you not to carry until you actually have your permit in hand. $20 says these forms show up with a stamp.

 

[wired]

Conditions are just remarks they put on the form down at the bottom. In this case its tax exempt based on the conditions in the ruling. I haven't gotten mine back yet and I'm somewhat interested in what they put on the stamp area .

 

[wired]

The guy looked up his Form 1s on the ATF site and saw they were approved. He has not received any hard copies yet. Kind of like getting a WA CCW. They'll tell you you're approved and then tell you not to carry until you actually have your permit in hand. $20 says these forms show up with a stamp.

You dont get a hard copy

 

[wired]

What I thought was interesting is some of those folks that have already put in 40, 70, 110 app's... and still have more to do.

It makes you wonder about the supposed 70k applications so far. How many are actually people with existing pistols complying with the rule and how many simply geared up like mad just to take advantage of the free stamp to generate hordes of brand new SBR lowers for future builds(?) MFG's, and/or FFL's submitting entire inventories(?)

There is no need for a mfg to do that . An 0702/SOT FFL/MFG doesn't pay for tax stamps.

 

[bradsteen]

So, if no physical forms with physical stamps are sent out, then... they're just going to assume the millions of PDFs that end up floating around are totally legit? Have they ever heard of photoshop? I mean, sure, they can look you up in their system if scrutiny is warranted, but betting the casual LEO is gonna look at the paperwork and accept it at face value.

 

[wired]

So, if no physical forms with physical stamps are sent out, then... they're just going to assume the millions of PDFs that end up floating around are totally legit? Have they ever heard of photoshop? I mean, sure, they can look you up in their system if scrutiny is warranted, but betting the casual LEO is gonna look at the paperwork and accept it at face value.

They have you in their records. Its not really a thing. I knew a guy 25 years ago who had a grease gun that he bought at an antique store for $50. They thought it was a toy from the 50's. He photoshopped a form 4. Looked legit.

No one carries their actual $200 tax stamped form 4 anyway. Everyone carries a copy that thinks they have to. I haven't carried a copy with me in at least 15 years.

BTW eforms have been sending out the non stamped form 1's for about a decade now. Of the 76 stamped form 1 and form 4's I have probably 70 of them dont have actual tax stamps

 

[CamoDeafie]

Well there is that Oregon statute that says a person is guilty of unlawful possession of any NFA item unless that person has their documentation that their NFA item is registered to them some States have a similar law

 

[wired]

Well there is that Oregon statute that says a person is guilty of unlawful possession of any NFA item unless that person has their documentation that their NFA item is registered to them some States have a similar law

Does it say you have to carry a copy or does it say you have to have it registered with the feds and that is a defense? Any case would fall apart at the arraignment when the tax stamped form is produced anyway.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Does it say you have to carry a copy or does it say you have to have it registered with the feds and that is a defense? Any case would fall apart at the arraignment when the tax stamped form is produced anyway.

Just says has to be registered per Fed law, but lawyers advise carrying or having it with the firearm (in its case, or similar).

 

[wired]

Just says has to be registered per Fed law, but lawyers advise carrying or having it with the firearm (in its case, or similar).

So its not required. Most states are the same way. Only one I know of that it is required is maybe Virgina.