National Pistol Brace rule Dropped!

[Member 53328]

Cats are like the ATF. They never quit! Haha.

 

[Wombat of Doom]

Cats are like the ATF. They never quit! Haha.

They also hate dogs and attack at random.

 

[Rkangel]

Well there goes the Internet. How about cat videos?

Cat videos are fine, as long as the cats aren't giving legal advice.

 

[Knobgoblin]

K

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

 

[GWS]

I don't think the ATF gives a f-ck how you decipher something……

What's the big push against engraving? Or is it strictly a monetary issue?

Money
Not having my own engraving equipment getting my name, city and state on my 1st SBR cost $120

 

[Member 53328]

Money
Not having my own engraving equipment getting my name, city and state on my 1st SBR cost $120

Where are you going to get it done? My last one cost 30 or less.

 

[CamoDeafie]

I do, or I did, have a set of lettering punches somewhere in storage... can't remember if it was just 0-9 or if it also had A-Z... edit. I'm also not sure if it was for leathercraft and sheet metal as opposed to lettering solid blocks...

 

[GWS]

Where are you going to get it done? My last one cost 30 or less.

Local gunsmith Brimstone iirc
Thinking I should just buy my own engraving kit

 

[Member 53328]

Local gunsmith Brimstone iirc
Thinking I should just buy my own engraving kit

No joke. That's way over priced.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Finally a video on the 922r problem from a reputable/non-hype source. Overall it's still clear as mud though. The military arms channel said they would have to be destroyed and the hype copy cat video guys are repeating that which only makes it harder to get factual info. If the 922r issue is in fact why they are delaying publishing in the federal register that would indicate ATF sees a major problem here. But who knows ATF never tells anybody anything because they are pricks. I want to know is this a legit potential Gotcha or not if you try to sbr an imported pistol. Also how would atf know if the pistol you filied for an sbr under this brace anmesty has 10 or more foreign parts or not? Someone could have changed the parts out fe.

 

[Wombat of Doom]

Finally a video on the 922r problem from a reputable/non-hype source:

I hope my Nak9 doesn't get snarled up, even though in current configuration it sits at 6 compliance parts. (ALG trigger, Magpul furniture)

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Excellent discussion here on the 922r issue starting at the 10:39 mark which clears the muddy water a bit for me. I found it very helpful (I didn't watch any of the other parts). I may be hearing it wrong but sounds like if the pistol was originally imported with a brace on it, according to atf that makes it "illegal", retroactively.

So my #1 question right now is what if it did not come in the country with a brace and the importer never sold it with a brace? In that case it could not be in an "illegal" configuration right?

#2 Q then would be what if I took that pistol I bought with no brace and added a brace to it, did it then cross that threshold of retroactive 922r illegality? What if I put a brace on it after I apply for the brace amnesty sbr? Woudl it then trigger the 922r illegality? If so wouldn't that have already happened with other sbr applications that were originally imported pistols?

As I understand it the reason 922r issue is such a potential big deal is one would have to destroy the gun. Personally I wouldn't be worried about bogieman atf gonna take you to jail over it, more that their computer spits out a form letter some day in the future saying your gun needs to be destroyed due to 922r violation.

 

[Gypsyman]

Looks like they are shooting for a Jan 31st publication date.

ATF Says Imported Braced-Guns Can be Registered, Rule to be Published Next Week

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) clarified its position on some of the millions of firearms affected by the upcoming pistol brace ban.

thereload.com

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Looks like they are shooting for a Jan 31st publication date.

ATF Says Imported Braced-Guns Can be Registered, Rule to be Published Next Week

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) clarified its position on some of the millions of firearms affected by the upcoming pistol brace ban.

thereload.com

That's great info thx for posting that! It's interesting to hear ATF say what their "intent" is in that article.

From all I've heard that seems to be their "intent" today (at least on the surface), to register braced firearms. However my concern is for example let's say the Kampala lady is our next president and she wants to ban assault weapons aggressively. ATF could use the 922r thing in the future to have individuals destroy or turn in their guns (basically accomplishing confiscation with no work on their part other than sending out a letter). Atf has shown they change with the politics winds, such as past bump stock determinations and braces that have flip flopped multiple times. I'll say one thing, the push to ban "assault weapons" will not end anytime soon so we need to be aware of the climate we are living in. Look at WA state many years ago. Laws are so different now and they are again pushing for an AWB. "Intent" is only accurate for the exact time it was stated. The same info gathered can be used in the future when they have a different "intent".

 

[asiparks]

Looks like they are shooting for a Jan 31st publication date.

ATF Says Imported Braced-Guns Can be Registered, Rule to be Published Next Week

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) clarified its position on some of the millions of firearms affected by the upcoming pistol brace ban.

thereload.com

This was the bit from the linked article that I hope answers a lot of 922 questions-
""[A] person with an imported pistol that was subsequently equipped with a 'stabilizing brace' will have the same options as anyone else under the final rule," the agency explains in a soon-to-be-released question-and-answer section on its website. "Should that person choose to register the firearm, no further modification of the firearm with domestic parts is required."

There's more content not quoted but it sounds as though users will be able to register imported braced guns as SBRs even though they're not 922r compliant

This bit might reassure some who keep referring to the 88 day non event:
"The second thing is that while you are… while you are waiting, once you get an application in, you should save proof that you applied, screenshot or printout. And while you have the application in, while it's sitting on our desk as we're processing it, obviously there's nothing unlawful about your continued possession of that weapon."

This bit amused me on expectations of compliance:
"And he said those looking to register the guns, which the ATF itself estimated could be minimal given it only received 580 of an estimated 520,000 bumpstocks when it banned those devices, could use the full 120 days to submit their application."

 

[ilikegunspdx]

This was the bit from the linked article that I hope answers a lot of 922 questions-
""[A] person with an imported pistol that was subsequently equipped with a 'stabilizing brace' will have the same options as anyone else under the final rule," the agency explains in a soon-to-be-released question-and-answer section on its website. "Should that person choose to register the firearm, no further modification of the firearm with domestic parts is required."

There's more content not quoted but it sounds as though users will be able to register imported braced guns as SBRs even though they're not 922r compliant

This bit might reassure some who keep referring to the 88 day non event:
"The second thing is that while you are… while you are waiting, once you get an application in, you should save proof that you applied, screenshot or printout. And while you have the application in, while it's sitting on our desk as we're processing it, obviously there's nothing unlawful about your continued possession of that weapon."

This bit amused me on expectations of compliance:
"And he said those looking to register the guns, which the ATF itself estimated could be minimal given it only received 580 of an estimated 520,000 bumpstocks when it banned those devices, could use the full 120 days to submit their application."

Agree but I'm also cognizant of how in the past they said bumpstocks were ok, and braces were ok. If you were to look at their statement that braces do not make it fall under nfa at that time you would think that means forever. In actuality it only meant until the next president came in when they reversed their decision. The reversals on braces happened 4 times total as I understand it. We can't take them at their word unfortunately. It shouldn't be that way but that is the reality of ATF's behavior in the past. Imo a future president may push them to ban "assault weapons" or even confiscation and we need to be aware of that.

 

[Yarome]

Their "intent" though should be taken with a grain of salt, IMO. That's not how it's written in the rule, and a "rule" is more actionable than a simple letter saying, basically, "well, it's not our intent to enforce that portion [right now] and registrations will be allowed". For how long? Just during the amnesty period? Will the rule be revised to reflect the change of gears? Why write it in at all if it was never their intention to make it actionable?

It seems to me they likely got too much backlash on it and were forced to compromise not to enforce it (allow registration), but their flip-flopping record is well proven.

A good thing... for now... sure.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Their "intent" though should be taken with a grain of salt, IMO. That's not how it's written in the rule, and a "rule" is more actionable than a simple letter saying, basically, "well, it's not our intent to enforce that portion [right now] and registrations will be allowed". For how long? Just during the amnesty period? Will the rule be revised to reflect the change of gears? Why write it in at all if it was never their intention to make it actionable?

It seems to me they likely got too much backlash on it and were forced to compromise not to enforce it (allow registration), but their flip-flopping record is well proven.

A good thing... for now... sure.

In terms of strategy of what to do on braces I'm kind of thinking if I register anything under amnesty period or after, it will be things I can afford to lose. It might be nice to have no worries when using certain braced/stocked pistols at the range or when OSP rolls up on you in the woods. At the same time those are guns that they may someday go after. The political climate can change for the worse pretty fast and even state level Law enforcement may be under directives to enforce in the future.

Personally I'm not as worried about the $200 savings vs what can they do in the future once you have signed up (for those specific guns I mean). So it's a risk vs benefit thing. The "got to hurry up and sign up because the servers will be swamped" is real and I get that. However every single con job attempt I've seen in the past always forces you to do something in hurry, that is largely why they work. We use the emotional "emergency" part of our brain instead of the slower logic part. For me the worst case scenario when waiting a bit to see how things shake out is that it may cost you $200 if wait too long. Best case is this crap gets thrown out in court then there would be no need to register any of them. Just thinking out loud...

 

[Yarome]

In terms of strategy of what to do on braces I'm kind of thinking if I register anything under amnesty period or after, it will be things I can afford to lose. It might be nice to have no worries when using certain braced/stocked pistols at the range or when OSP rolls up on you in the woods. At the same time those are guns that they may someday go after. The political climate can change for the worse pretty fast and even state level Law enforcement may be under directives to enforce in the future.

Personally I'm not as worried about the $200 savings vs what can they do in the future once you have signed up (for those specific guns I mean). So it's a risk vs benefit thing. The "got to hurry up and sign up because the servers will be swamped" is real and I get that. However every single con attempt I've seen in the past always forces you to do something in hurry, that is largely why they work. We use the emotional "emergency" part of our brain instead of the slower logic part. Just thinking out loud...

Yeah. I can care less about the $200, too. It's certainly not worth potentially giving up even a grain of my freedoms by acting hastily. Absolute worst case... the rule sticks and you absolutely "must" own an SBR... simply disassemble your pistol, apply for a stamp and rebuild it after approval. All this "now or never" stuff is straight up BS.

I have no doubt the e-form server is going to get bogged down and may require a little patience, but I don't subscribe to the belief that it's only a matter of time for it to go up in flames permanently... any day now... and leave zero opportunity to register long before the amnesty expires. It's also a likely scenario that the gooberment has already seen the load increase, identified "this is gonna be a problem", and are in progress of dedicating more server and bandwidth resources. Who knows!?

Talk about "make believe" and fearmongering!

We are still incredibly early into it all since the initial announcement, it hasn't even hit the register yet, and so many folks are already trying to sell they idea, "you might already be too late! Comply now!!"

Sheesh......