National Pistol Brace rule Dropped!

[Yarome]

Another friend of mine mentioned he would rather pay the $200 and register a stripped lower as an SBR than admit being in possession of a constructed SBR… and he's an attorney.

If you are determined to own an NFA item and adding yourself to the national registry... that would seem the absolute safest route to take. Removing as much potential risk as is allowable.

It brings up a very valid point as well. It's not a prerequisite that you be guilty of anything to be charged... or otherwise be in a position to have to pay to seek legal counsel. The potential costs of which should be considered. However minor you perceive it.

An agency willing to break the law to make "law"... with no regard to turning millions of law abiding citizens into felons... has a trust factor of about nill in my book. Hedging your risk when dealing with the devil seems wise.

For those that will say, "no one has to be a felon as long as they register within 120 days" I would say... it's likely that the vast majority of owners simply won't get the memo within that time frame and be walking felons without even being aware of it. I also don't see any effort being made by the alphabets to actually inform the general public. (Mailers? TV or online media ad campaigns? Public radio spots? Etc?)

 

[CamoDeafie]

For those that will say, "no one has to be a felon as long as they register within 120 days" I would say... it's likely that the vast majority of owners simply won't get the memo within that time frame and be walking felons without even being aware of it. I also don't see any effort being made by the alphabets to actually inform the general public. (Mailers? TV or online media ad campaigns? Public radio spots? Etc?)

"If you or a family member owned a firearm with a brace attached, you may be entitled to settlement in class action suit, call Dewey Cheatem & Howe law firm "

Half serious Half joking

 

[bradsteen]

"If you or a family member owned a firearm with a brace attached, you may be entitled to settlement in class action suit, call Dewey Cheatem & Howe law firm "

Half serious Half joking

If only the lawsuit was titled to reflect the actual affected party, i.e. 40 million braced pistol owners v United States.

 

[billdeserthills]

Just like being a motorcycle rider. Right of way doesn't mean "chit" if you're dead...

While it's true that many people prefer to simply submit to authority, I do not. The ATF doesn't have the right to allow millions of Americans to legally buy & subsequently install braces on their AR pistols and then turn around and say that they've now changed their minds and make those millions, who followed the law, guilty of a new law that undermines the ATFs original ruling

 

[billdeserthills]

Just another reason to remain silent, not inviolate the 5th, and avoid this fiasco.

Sounds like it will be easy for some to pretend to simply go along with what they know is illegal behavior by our govt overlords-- just remember that unjust treatment once accepted will continue

 

[Alexx1401]

While it's true that many people prefer to simply submit to authority, I do not. The ATF doesn't have the right to allow millions of Americans to legally buy & subsequently install braces on their AR pistols and then turn around and say that they've now changed their minds and make those millions, who followed the law, guilty of a new law that undermines the ATFs original ruling

Sadly this is FAR from the first time they have done this. Them "not having" authority is exactly like saying something is not constitutional. The great lock down was not something they had authority to do either. As long as some black robes go along really does not matter. ATF at one time let people make shotguns for a good while then changed their mind. Told everyone who had one they were now NFA items. At one time they let people make "pen guns" and sell them. Then came along and said those were an NFA item. If this all shakes out that the feds win, and the brace makes something NFA no doubt a few will keep what they have. Most will probably never have a problem. A few will get in a bind and it will cost them a LOT. None of the people who lose everything will still feel it was worth it later but, too late then

 

[skidoo j]

For electronic fingerprints go here and click the "atf choose service". This gets done at a participating UPS store near you. You can choose the store when you go thru the steps. I just got mines done this morning. Had an appointment at 12pm and was done by 12:06. Got an email with the files less than 2 minutes later.

PrintScan - Welcome!

Begin your appointment journey with PrintScan's Fingerprinting Services. Explore our options for Live Scan Fingerprinting and Card Scan Fingerprinting.

appointment.printscan.com

How big was your eft file?

 

[ilikegunspdx]

If the 922r issue is real (FE if it has in fact caused ATF to delay publishing the brace rule in the federal register) and will cause people to have to destroy their firearm then why aren't there more videos and discussion on it? Is it because it's so complicated that most people throw up their hands? Seems like this issue should be getting way more attention than the 88 day thing.

A cliff notes version of 922r:

Understanding 922r Compliance

We cover everything you need to know about 922r compliance - what it is (in plain language) and how to comply with it. 922r isn't that complicated afterall.

gununiversity.com

 

[Rkangel]

Just a suggestion....
Can we start and/or pin a new thread (or link to a thread if it already exists) regarding the step by step Amnesty SBR process? That way people who choose to SBR can go there to get info in one place, and people who want to discuss the morality and legality of the ruling can discuss here. Finding what we're looking for on either side of the debate was already difficult at 40 pages of quotes and counter quotes... It's becoming impossible at 60 pages.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Just a suggestion....
Can we start and/or pin a new thread (or link to a thread if it already exists) regarding the step by step Amnesty SBR process? That way people who choose to SBR can go there to get info in one place, and people who want to discuss the morality and legality of the ruling can discuss here. Finding what we're looking for on either side of the debate was already difficult at 40 pages of quotes and counter quotes... It's becoming impossible at 60 pages.

Nah. We just need everyone to read through 60 pages or we could do what happened with Measure 114, make 30 new threads In a week

 

[arrowshooter]

Has anyone else seen or heard that NFA items can no longer be used by anyone other than the registered owner? :

PS: I am pretty sure I would have not missed it above, but..........

 

[CamoDeafie]

Has anyone else seen or heard that NFA items can no longer be used by anyone other than the registered owner? :

PS: I am pretty sure I would have not missed it above, but..........

National - ATF: Nobody else can shoot your NFA weapon, even when you are present

Was on the FAQ for the ATF's efile page ( https://eforms-form1.atf.gov/faq ) checking on the brace info and I saw this: Q. If I am the registered owner of a NFA item, can someone else shoot my item in my presence? No. Only Responsible Person(s) listed on the approved registration may have...

www.northwestfirearms.com

 

[arrowshooter]

Aw, missed it. Sorry guys.

 

[Member 53328]

Cliffs note version.

While I agree a charge from the ATF likely be thrown out, how much money do you have set aside for a self defense attorney? Notwithstanding potential arrest, jail pending hearing , bail bond, and lost work time. There is no aspect of this that seems worth it when you can just take off the brace or make the pistol a rifle, 922R being considered.
Another aspect to consider in WA, is the AWB may pass, which would potentially result in the ATF denying your application due to it being illegal to "create" a new AW. The likelihood of the AWB becoming law before you get your stamp back is almost certain.
Another friend of mine mentioned he would rather pay the $200 and register a stripped lower as an SBR than admit being in possession of a constructed SBR… and he's an attorney.
So many pitfalls over the desire to get something for free…

View attachment 1352277

As much of a trap as the Chinese finger trap pictured on the star wars character pictured…..

AKA no trap at all.

Let's say you put in for your pistols to be a SBR through the "free" tax stamp.
Let's say you go past the 88 days (highly unlikely). Let's say your stamp gets denied and now they a "coming" for you.

Remove the brace and you have a pistol. The ATF can do nothing. You now own a pistol and not a SBR. Your photo (with the ATF) is "date stamped" right? Just like everyone was saying we needed to do for 114……..

Don't believe everything on the internet or the fear mongering that the 2A community loves to spread.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Remove the brace and you have a pistol. The ATF can do nothing. You now own a pistol and not a SBR. Your photo (with the ATF) is "date stamped" right? Just like everyone was saying we needed to do for 114……..

You could also destroy the brace, fairly easy if you have something resembling a blender or a wood chipper actually if you have a 3d printer and a plastic shredder device to recycle the filament pieces that would be my first thought on how to destroy the braces...or you could just sell it to someone here

 

[mhayd93]

As much of a trap as the Chinese finger trap pictured on the star wars character pictured…..

AKA no trap at all.

Let's say you put in for your pistols to be a SBR through the "free" tax stamp.
Let's say you go past the 88 days (highly unlikely). Let's say your stamp gets denied and now they a "coming" for you.

Remove the brace and you have a pistol. The ATF can do nothing. You now own a pistol and not a SBR. Your photo (with the ATF) is "date stamped" right? Just like everyone was saying we needed to do for 114……..

Don't believe everything on the internet or the fear mongering that the 2A community lives to spread.

The notion of Constructive Intent are worth considering in such a hypothetical scenario, especially since filing a Form 1 is basically expressing your intent to construct an NFA item.

It is not fearmongering to evaluate all potential outcomes—regardless of their likelihood—of utilizing this SBR tax holiday. If the scenario you presented is literally not possible, then yeah, call it fearmongering.

It's okay for people to not be excited about this "amnesty," and equally okay for them to be skeptical if there is even the slightest chance that attempting to get a free Form1 could actually end up backfiring.

 

[Member 53328]

You could also destroy the brace, fairly easy if you have something resembling a blender or a wood chipper actually if you have a 3d printer and a plastic shredder device to recycle the filament pieces that would be my first thought on how to destroy the braces...or you could just sell it to someone here

Or just put it where you put your bump stock. Haha.

 

[Member 53328]

The notion of Constructive Intent are worth considering in such a hypothetical scenario, especially since filing a Form 1 is basically expressing your intent to construct an NFA item.

It is not fearmongering to evaluate all potential outcomes—regardless of their likelihood—of utilizing this SBR tax holiday. If the scenario you presented is literally not possible, then yeah, call it fearmongering.

It's okay for people to not be excited about this "amnesty," and equally okay for them to be skeptical if there is even the slightest chance that attempting to get a free Form1 could actually end up backfiring.

Then remove the brace and don't file for a stamp. It's really that easy.

 

[Rkangel]

Has anyone else seen or heard that NFA items can no longer be used by anyone other than the registered owner? :

PS: I am pretty sure I would have not missed it above, but..........

One of the many things that has changed (or that they are trying to sneak through) and why we can't assume SBR-ing pistols now under the amnesty period will be the same as the SBR process of the past. We keep finding out more and more grey areas and gotchas in this 300 page monstrosity. I think it will be wise to be patient and know what we're getting into before signing the bottom line on amnesty SBRs.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Remove brace, don't file for stamp; end up getting screwed because firearm have the following items

A weight, length similar to the smallest legal rifle that's not a SBR (16" AR15 M4gery)

Rifle style sights as opposed to red dot sight/ghost rings

A length of "pull" that's similar/"consistent" with a rifle (M4/Commando/Uzi/etc) even if you're using a sling or a cheek rest and the tube doesn't contact shoulder

A buffer tube that while necessary for operation, has "enough" surface area (undefined )to "shoulder"

It was marketed as a large pistol with a brace

YouTube idiots demonstrating how to fire one without a stock but still cheek welding or using sternum or push-pull sling method ("its consistent with shouldering a rifle" )