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Doesn't matter it seems; just barrel lengths, whether it has or doesn't have a stock, and does it fall into any of the NFA categories (since the calibers are for rifled barrels, that leaves SBRs and AOWs)

Edit. I don't know if the ATF would accept "multi cal" on a SBR lower markings for "making" but... that's more @wired Wheelhouse
You have to list caliber, but I don't know if that means you can change said caliber once approved. Just don't know if it is ever an option or not
 
You have to list caliber, but I don't know if that means you can change said caliber once approved. Just don't know if it is ever an option or not
Right, I do seem to recall that the ATF have said changing barrels and calibers A-OK if it's still going to be a SBR, but changing to a 16" barrel means it can be removed from SBR registry at your request.
 
What's the deal with caliber changes and NFA? Say 5.56 NATO to 300 BO?

Sorry if this is a drift worthy of a new thread.
IN THE PAST the understanding of the rule was that it was fine to have different uppers and there was no reason to worry about the ATF as long as you had the original upper or one that matched it's caliber / length around because anything you swapped out wasn't a permanent change, however if you got rid of the upper listed on your Form 1 or 4 than it was a permanent change that required you to notify the ATF

That being said (and obviously JMHO), if the ATF is worried about what you have listed on your form and what you have on your SBR or in your inventory, you have MUCH bigger problems and they are only looking for more felonies to bury you with
 
IN THE PAST the understanding of the rule was that it was fine to have different uppers and there was no reason to worry about the ATF as long as you had the original upper or one that matched it's caliber / length around because anything you swapped out wasn't a permanent change, however if you got rid of the upper listed on your Form 1 or 4 than it was a permanent change that required you to notify the ATF

That being said (and obviously JMHO), if the ATF is worried about what you have listed on your form and what you have on your SBR or in your inventory, you have MUCH bigger problems and they are only looking for more felonies to bury you with
I read that as "it's a non issue"...
 
What's the deal with caliber changes and NFA? Say 5.56 NATO to 300 BO?

Sorry if this is a drift worthy of a new thread.
The form 1 is to build an SBR.Dont read too much into it. Its asking what you are going to build the rifle as. What length barrel and what caliber. Its a snapshot in time. After that you are not under legal obligation to either retain the upper you used to build the gun with ( in the case of the AR ) or to keep the length the same. The ATF likes you to notify them of permanent length and caliber changes but that is not a legal requirement and there isn't even a government form to do that with. Its really just a pretty please sort of thing.

You cannot put multi on the form. It will not get approved.
 
I have a question on the RPQ for the eForm 1 regarding conflicting instructions. The eForm 1 asks for a scanned and signed copy of the RPQ but the RPQ instructions item 10 states the following...

10. Sign and date the form. The signature must be original. Exceptions: In the case of eforms or where a variance has been granted a digital/electronic signature may be used.

Has anyone run into a problem using a digital signature instead of a signed and scanned RPQ?
 
I have a question. If it ends up taking a year or two for final approvals, does that mean folks are stuck with a brace on their SBR's even though they have an "SBR" and have met all the requirements to properly comply with the new rule? ;)
Well seeing as how you typically have to file a form 1 prior to even building the firearm, having the brace on it just means you are now in possession of an illegal SBR per their rules. Regardless if the paperwork was filed or not. Congrats, we're all felons regardless of compliance or not.
 
Well seeing as how you typically have to file a form 1 prior to even building the firearm, having the brace on it just means you are now in possession of an illegal SBR per their rules. Regardless if the paperwork was filed or not. Congrats, we're all felons regardless of compliance or not.
Thats not what their rule says at all.
 
For those interested in getting electronic prints from ups store here are some notes fyi. Not sure if I will use them or not, may just use for a suppressor.

1. Go to printscan.com to fill out info and pay $65. I selected "atf" for the category it asks for fwiw. You can do this in parking lot on phone if desired. I think there are other companies you can sign up to do it but this was the one they recommended in the store fwiw.
2. Select the ups store and appointment date and totally ignore appointment date and time as it is 100% meaningless.
3. Go to store and use QR code printscan sent on email. They will log u in. You need 2 forms of id, driver's license and car registration are acceptable but CHL is not on their list. Scanner is pretty finicky you have to be patient. You can go back and re roll if you don't like a result.
4. After you select finish they will send you an email saying info was sent to atf. Totally ignore that &cuz it's just some bs email to confirm that printscan got your prints
5. Next email is payment receipt
6. Next email is link for the eft file. Takes about 5 minutes to get this email
7. When you get home you can download the Eft file on computer using the email link they sent. Don't try to do it on phone it won't let you. The link is only good for 24 hours.

Basically you have to be prepared to go through some confirmation stuff like enter verification code they sent you, and deal with finicky scanner, and decide if the $ is worth it to you or not vs other methods. That's how I look at it anyway.
 
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For those interested in getting electronic prints from ups store here are some notes fyi. Not sure if I will use them or not, may just use for a suppressor.

1. Go to printscan.com to fill out info and pay $65. I selected "atf" for the category it asks for fwiw. You can do this in parking lot on phone if desired. I think there are other companies you can sign up to do it but this was the one they recommended in the store fwiw.
2. Select the ups store and appointment date and totally ignore appointment date and time as it is 100% meaningless.
3. Go to store and use QR code printscan sent on email. They will log u in. You need 2 forms of id, driver's license and car registration are acceptable but CHL is not on their list. Scanner is pretty finicky you have to be patient. You can go back and re roll if you don't like a result.
4. After you select finish they will send you an email saying info was sent to atf. Totally ignore that &cuz it's just some bs email to confirm that printscan got your prints
5. Next email is payment receipt
6. Next email is link for the eft file. Takes about 5 minutes to get this email
7. When you get home you can download the Eft file on computer using the email link they sent. Don't try to do it on phone it won't let you. The link is only good for 24 hours.

Basically you have to be prepared to go through some confirmation stuff like enter verification code they sent you, and deal with finicky scanner, and decide if the $ is worth it to you or not vs other methods. That's how I look at it anyway.
Can the file be used for multiple forms? Once you have it downloaded it's yours to use again in the future?
 
Can the file be used for multiple forms? Once you have it downloaded it's yours to use again in the future?
Yes it's an eft file on your computer. I assume atf has an expiration date on when they can be used but I don't know. I need to swing into shop to order suppressor I may ask them.

Edit: then again I may be totally wrong about the expiration 🤣 :p 🤣 Maybe you just notify atf if you lose any fingers? :s0070:

B6E379AD-AD13-429D-9C85-28072C3CB2E2.jpeg
 
Lets go to the FAQ's that we all love so much ;)

23. CAN I POSSESS A PISTOL AND UNATTACHED "STABILIZING BRACE"? •
An NFA firearm need not be assembled to be regulated as such. Whether a person may be in constructive possession of an NFA firearm depends on the facts of a particular case.


The 'same drawer' thing is silly, they aren't going to Chaos Theory themselves together the way Christmas lights will tangle left alone in a box
Re what is or is not constructive possession, I found a video of the first training on 1/31 and it is discussed at the 22:55 mark, also 26:19, also 36:35(ish), also 42:00 (best example imo)

 
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Re what is or is not constructive possession, I found a video of the first training on 1/31 and it is discussed at the 22:55 mark, also 26:19, also 36:35(ish), also 42:00 (best example imo)

Thanks for taking the time to time mark those and dispel the ficton from fact. That's very generous of you!

I heard the same thing you did. 👍
 
Re what is or is not constructive possession, I found a video of the first training on 1/31 and it is discussed at the 22:55 mark, also 26:19, also 36:35(ish), also 42:00 (best example imo)
So I have this problem, had it my entire life, were people will accuse me of "just saying the first thing that comes into my mind" which I can guarantee you is not true, if it was most things out of my mouth would be just a strung together amalgamation of inquiries of a persons heritage, ability to chew gum and pass gas at the same time and anatomical impossibilities all tied together with the most bubblegum of bubblegum words that you have ever heard.
:s0033:

As a result just about everything I post goes through soooo many edits that some people find me 'vague' :rolleyes: and on occasion I remove the point I was trying to make along with the bubblegum. Oh, and I am also terrible at typing, and long post make my fingers cramp
Allow me to try again:

The 'same drawer' thing is silly because there is no functional difference between one drawer and one drawer over, or across the room or even in another part of the house. You wouldn't put them in the drawer on the belief that they will self-construct themselves and 'intent' is a spectrum from no intent all the way over to having done extensive research and collected the need tools. I believe they are being vague because constructive intent is a useful tool for them and by avoiding defining it at this time they believe they will be able to define it as they wish when they want to aid in their investigations / prosecution / persecutions
 
The 'same drawer' thing is silly because there is no functional difference between one drawer and one drawer over, or across the room or even in another part of the house. You wouldn't put them in the drawer on the belief that they will self-construct themselves and 'intent' is a spectrum from no intent all the way over to having done extensive research and collected the need tools. I believe they are being vague because constructive intent is a useful tool for them and by avoiding defining it at this time they believe they will be able to define it as they wish when they want to aid in their investigations / prosecution / persecutions
I agree with most of that. Using a little common sense I think the main take-away is that simple possession does not constitue a crime.... unless they are able to prove your intent. IE., Carrying your pistol in a rifle bag in your vehicle, there's a stock in there with it and the pistol tube is compatible with the stock... it's reasonably arguable that your "intent" was to use that firearm as an SBR.

In most cases, as noted, I believe a constructive possession charge would simply be an add-on, you were being a massive dumba** and you've got a whole lot more serious charges to worry about. Even then, the most likely is simply the tactic of piling on charges for the purpose of obtaining a more favorable plea bargain for the prosecution.

What doesn't fly... legally owning part "A" and legally owning part "B", in and of itself equates to a felony.... as some are trying so hard to make everyone believe. Simple fearmongering.

To me, that seems more like telling people, "Don't ever use a metal wrench! It's a lightning rod and you will get stuck!". If you're holding it high over your head running around on a hill during a lightning storm... that may very well be true... but that "truth" certainly doesn't rank very high in the realm of infinite possibilities for anyone that owns a wrench.

Has it happened before? Sure! Common sense would dictate that it still doesn't mean it can/will happen to everyone else. YMMV
 
No ones going through your sock drawers looking for stocks. Its one of those things that when they raid your meth lab they pile on whatever charges they can find or you try and sell the stock /brace in the box with an MP5 "pistol" on armslist ( yeah, thats happened) and the "buyer" ends up being a ATF agent.
 

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