Piece for Hiking

[Kruel J]

I own a GP100, I would still take a G20 10mm. Someday soon.

 

[smoothbore]

Forget the Glocks and S&W pistols. You might lose or scratch em up.
Get yourself a nice Hi-Point in 9mm or 45 cal, and load up with the hottest hard cast bullets you can get your hands on and hit the trail.If you lost a glock or Smith, you would cry yourself to sleep for a month or more.Not so with the UGLY (according to most) Hi-point. They are reliable,accurate as you are and tougher than most. They work and do it on the cheap.Personally the 9mm is all you need, and smaller framed than the 45.You don't need a hog leg to protect yourself from a Black Bear,Wolf, or Cougar here in the NW. You just need to know how, and where to shoot.If you don't put the shot where it belongs, even a howitzer isn't going to do the job.

 

[Certaindeaf]

That's totally photoshopped, man!



This is reality!

 

[ArtBrownSr]

I've done a lot of reading about this subject, since I hike in Bear (grizzly & black) country. Bear spray is the most effective product and the jury is still out on those bells. I've often read that dogs are not such a good idea, might actually attract them, of if off leash, actually create the problem by finding the bear that was leaving you alone. As for firearm choice, shot placement is the key to your success in stopping them from turning you into hamburger; that's why they say Bear Spray is the top choice. Many times the shot or two someone got off that didn't stop them, infuriated them and well, your problems may only have begun or ended entirely. Most often it seemed those who were successful with a handgun were using a 44 magnum or larger; 45LC, 454 Casull, 460 or 500 S&W magnum. As mentioned by many, I would feel pretty comfortable with a 10mm and even a 45acp with the right round and at least a 4" barrel. As written in many article, you are not needing more than 5 or 6 round capacity, as you are not going to have the time to get off that many rounds. If you do, then the bear was likely not a problem to begin with, and you should have just done what was necessary to back out of the possible confrontation zone. They always say if you are hiking alone that you should make noise, talk to your self out loud every so often, to make your presence known. Typically I bring my 1911 w/4.25" barrel or 44 magnum, and I always carry High Potency Bear Spray.

I would like to point out that SHOT PLACEMENT should NOT INCLUDE A HEAD SHOT on a Grizzly/ Brown the only bone able to be penetrated by bullets into the brain cavity is at the back of the nasal cavity! Eyes are held outside of the scull proper by a circle of bone wth the optical nerve entering at an angle through a small hole NOT adjacent to the brain and the ear likewise is not a viable target for a lethal shot. Therefore Unless you can consistently hit a quarter coming at you at 30 miles an hour from 60 feet away you should be shooting at the heart and lung area and expect to be hit by the falling body.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Legend has it that Jack Ruby could hit a quarter.. but not at 60 feet away.

 

[The Heretic]

I would like to point out that SHOT PLACEMENT should NOT INCLUDE A HEAD SHOT on a Grizzly/ Brown the only bone able to be penetrated by bullets into the brain cavity is at the back of the nasal cavity! Eyes are held outside of the scull proper by a circle of bone wth the optical nerve entering at an angle through a small hole NOT adjacent to the brain and the ear likewise is not a viable target for a lethal shot. Therefore Unless you can consistently hit a quarter coming at you at 30 miles an hour from 60 feet away you should be shooting at the heart and lung area and expect to be hit by the falling body.

Long time ago, I read a little blurb in one of the field sports magazines ("Sports Afield" or something like that?) where two guys were fishing in Alaska and one was attacked by a brown bear. His fishing partner shot the bear six times in the back of the head with a standard .44 magnum 240 grain JHP load. All six bullets visibly bounced off the head of the bear, only making it angry (or angrier).

For any attacking dangerous animal of stout size and makeup (i.e., hard to kill), such as a bear, the first goal is to stop the charge/attack. I have seen more than one animal shot through the lungs, the heart, even the brain, who did not stop immediately. But the animals I have shot through their shoulders piled up on the spot because their muscles and bones simply would not, could not, work no matter how much they still tried to move.

IMO this involves hitting the animal where their locomotion will be impaired by a projectile capable of penetrating muscles and bones and breaking those bones. The recommendations I have read have been to hit said animal in the front shoulders (assuming that area is available to shoot), first one shoulder, then the other, then the rear hips, one, then the other - as is possible. The animal may not die from the shots, but if it cannot move towards its victim then you have time to take a kill shot.

Hence a load of sufficient power with proper bullet design and mass that could penetrate heavy flesh and bone sufficiently to do the job. This is why my minimum bear loads are 300 grain Barnes JSP (heavy jacket) .44 magnum hot loads (claimed 1300 fps) - that load has the best chance of breaking a shoulder/hip joint on a bear of any load I could put into my 329PD (and not have the gun blowup - a Ruger or heavier built handgun could take more) - if I do my job and put the bullet in the right place while under pressure.

I shudder to think of someone going out in the woods and having to defend themselves against a large bear with a 9mm loaded with 115 to 125 grain JHPs meant for defense against a human. They should at least get a heavy bullet load meant for the purpose - Buffalo Bore make some, not sure who else does.

 

[Certaindeaf]

This why you needs armor piercing ammos! lol

 

[teflon6string]

Legend has it that Jack Ruby could hit a quarter.. but not at 60 feet away.

So a ruble at one meter was well within his skillset.

 

[teflon6string]

I would like to point out that SHOT PLACEMENT should NOT INCLUDE A HEAD SHOT on a Grizzly/ Brown the only bone able to be penetrated by bullets into the brain cavity is at the back of the nasal cavity! Eyes are held outside of the scull proper by a circle of bone wth the optical nerve entering at an angle through a small hole NOT adjacent to the brain and the ear likewise is not a viable target for a lethal shot. Therefore Unless you can consistently hit a quarter coming at you at 30 miles an hour from 60 feet away you should be shooting at the heart and lung area and expect to be hit by the falling body.

And don't miss. A bad shot or deflected projectile might end up hitting Bear Brown, zig-zagging and summersaulting through the grass a few yards behind the bear. "Awwwesome!"

 

[Certaindeaf]

Strong like bear people have some stories.
Seems like a Russian dude was out "hiking" (shudder) when he stumbled upon a bear on the path. Our hero took his hat off and tossed it at the bear's face as it stood up on its hind legs and when the bear tried to catch the hat with its paws, the fella gutted the bear with his belt knife. end of story

 

[The Heretic]

This why you needs armor piercing ammos! lol

Lacking a more proper projectile, a 147 gr FMJ might be better than a 115 gr JHP when shooting a heavy boned dangerous animal. Some prof. hunters in Africa have used solids on some animals there. But I would prefer a JSP for anything in the USA (I don't think I will ever get to hunt or even visit Africa). It depends on the cartridge and the animal.

I have black bear and cougar on my property. I have no problems with them but if I did I would be okay carrying a .357 mag, maybe even a 9mm - but I prefer my .44 magnum.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Lacking a more proper projectile, a 147 gr FMJ might be better than a 115 gr JHP when shooting a heavy boned dangerous animal. Some prof. hunters in Africa have used solids on some animals there. But I would prefer a JSP for anything in the USA (I don't think I will ever get to hunt or even visit Africa). It depends on the cartridge and the animal.

I have black bear and cougar on my property. I have no problems with them but if I did I would be okay carrying a .357 mag, maybe even a 9mm - but I prefer my .44 magnum.

I hear you. I think a hard-cast Keith slug is great for a whole bunch of animals.. .358 (I load Keith type slugs in my 9mm's and Keith's proper for revolvers for general purpose/field use) or .430, depending on whatever.
For mountain lions, I'd favor something more frangible as they are so lightly boned and "thin" in body that at grappling distances, I'd prefer to cut the body in half (fingers crossed)with one shot than just put a hole through it. But of course a Keith slug would work there too, just as they would on humans.

 

[Hamilton Felix]

Backpackers count weight.

Back in the mid 1980's I did some backpacking in another state. I wanted something light but effective, and easy to conceal in a little rectangular "camera pouch" that had been designed for that.

I went with a 2½" Charter Arms Bulldog .44 Special. It my second, actually. I'd traded off my first, a mid 1970[s 3" Bulldog. I still think it was a good choice. Charter Arms offers a selection of Bulldogs today, even a 4" "target" version. In fact, they have a .45 ACP Pit Bull that is only a bit fatter than the .44 Specials.

It's not a magnum and you shouldn't try to handload it to being a magnum. But it throws a big bullet, is reliable and definitely does not weigh very much.

That mid 80's Bulldog disappeared in a divorce around 2008. I'm really thinking about replacing it. Charter has an interesting line today.

 

[FullMetalJerk]

Charter Arms has less than stellar quality control. I heard a story years back about a Kodiak bear that was full of .45acp slugs. A round that will barely dent a scooter probably has no place in the woods. I'd go with a .45 Super or 10mm instead. I like to think of the .45acp as a big .380acp. Both rounds usually travel at subsonic speeds and don't penetrate very well. The forty five was designed for a 5" barrel, it needs barrel length to perform.

 

[The Heretic]

I had a CA Bulldog Pug, the first CA, not anything since - .44 Special. It was okay, but I sold it and got a Ruger SP101 which I liked, but the snubbie had a lot of blast and recoil. Since then I have not bought any snubbies (did buy compact autos), any revolver I buy now has to have at least a 3" barrel, preferably 4 to 5", either S&W or Ruger.

 

[The Heretic]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=334084713769663

 

[Certaindeaf]

.Ruger SP101 which I liked, but the snubbie had a lot of blast and recoil..

Yeabut a 2'x2' ball of plasma does some serious contact damage. here kitty, lol

 

[Hamilton Felix]

Charter Arms has less than stellar quality control. I heard a story years back about a Kodiak bear that was full of .45acp slugs. A round that will barely dent a scooter probably has no place in the woods. I'd go with a .45 Super or 10mm instead. I like to think of the .45acp as a big .380acp. Both rounds usually travel at subsonic speeds and don't penetrate very well. The forty five was designed for a 5" barrel, it needs barrel length to perform.

Good points. I've always thought of my .380 as a blown out .32 auto. You're right, the .45 is slow. I've so far refused to go below 4 inches in my carry gun, and for many years carried a 5" 1911 (that lightweight full length Springfield might be a good compromise). I wasn't counting on expansion in the short non-magnum gun, just on big old SWC bullets.

I haven't handled a Charter Arms for some years, and I hear the company has gone through a few deaths, resurrections and changes of ownership. I will say I recently used the "email questions" feature on their site one evening, and the very next morning a guy called back. I'd given my home number. My wife gave him my work number, and we talked briefly until the Power Dispatcher called and I had to go do some 240KV switching. So I will say the present company is responsive. We hear good and bad about QC. They have always been "carry much and shoot seldom" guns. I'm curious as to what I could do with their 4.2" Target Bulldog.

Still, if one is willing to carry a bit more weight in the field, I think I'd take my stainless .44 Magnum Mountain Gun. Its weight is about the same as a full sized steel 1911. I wouldn't want a .44 Mag lighter than that. I look at the Charter .44 Special as the lightweight option for backpackers who count ounces.

And I'm still daydreaming about a longslide 10mm....

 

[The Heretic]

My 329PD is very much a carry often shoot seldom kind of gun - solely due to the lack of mass vs. the power of the cartridge. Going to have it ported eventually - when I get a

 

[Hamilton Felix]

LOL! Yeah, I need a few of those Round Tuits, too.

I guess if you are willing to pay the money and take a bit of a beating using it, that 329PD would be one to carry. It's not much heavier than the Charter Arms. But I have to say, a Magnum that light is scary. Even with the stainless Mountain Gun with Pachmayr Grippers, when you turn loose a 320 grain "Bear load," you definitely know something has happened in your hand. At nearly a pound lighter, the AirLite version must be an experience.

As it happens, we have two .38 Centennials that my wife carries. One is stainless, one is AirWeight and ported, a Performance Center special from a few years back. Based on our experience with those little guns, I'm betting that even with porting, that 329PD will be a bit "snappier" than the stainless Mountain Gun.

I have to wonder about the 329PD and others in that family, loaded well below Magnum levels, and kept as home defense guns. Nothing wrong with a big revolver as a house gun, and I'll bet it's not bad to shoot when loaded to Special levels.