Picked up my CCL application today and....

[eliduc]

I picked up my conceal carry application today from the Klamath County Sheriff Department after reading all the statutes. I was a bit surprised that the application asks if you own a functioning firearm and if you do what make is it. This goes beyond what is required by the State to be on a CCL application. It seems to me that this is kind of back door registration. Not a universal registration but nevertheless. Of course, if a person is applying it is a given that he/she owns a handgun so maybe it isn't that big of a deal. It doesn't even specify that the gun is a handgun so I guess I will put down the junk muzzeloader I have. Well, it's not really junk but it's the least of the guns that I own.

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[Member 5605]

Weird.

If you were in Washington youcoukd write down that dewalt nail gun you bought at home depot.

 

[Caveman Jim]

Or a marine emergency flare gun......

 

[Caveman Jim]

Up here in Grays Harbor there was nothing like that on my application but that was 20 years ago. Times have changed like Drs asking about guns.

 

[Joe13]

"...I don't own any guns. I'm just a certificate collector..."

 

[PiratePast40]

Sorry to hear that they're pulling that crap. Not sure if it's legal for the sheriffs department to request or require information above and beyond the state requirements. In some states, a carry license or permit is only valid for the gun that you have associated with the permit. Hope we're not going down that road.

 

[bnsaibum]

I'm no lawyer, but it seems as if that requirement might run counter to state law.

Issuance of concealed handgun license
§ 166.291 (4) Application forms for concealed handgun licenses shall be supplied by the sheriff upon request. The forms shall be uniform throughout this state in substantially the following form:

http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/166.291

<broken link removed>

 

[tiggers97]

I would use the RollingStones definition, following their "most dangerous guns" profile: handgun

 

[eliduc]

Only if that nail gun uses a powder charge and not compressed air. Most of them use air.

I'm no lawyer, but it seems as if that requirement might run counter to state law.

http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/166.291

<broken link removed>

(4) Application forms for concealed handgun licenses shall be supplied by the sheriff upon request. The forms shall be uniform throughout this state in substantially the following form:
______________________________________________________________________________

APPLICATION FOR LICENSE TO CARRY

CONCEALED HANDGUN

Date________

I hereby declare as follows:

I am a citizen of the United States or a legal resident alien who can document continuous residency in the county for at least six months and have declared in writing to the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services my intention to become a citizen and can present proof of the written declaration to the sheriff at the time of this application. I am at least 21 years of age. I have been discharged from the jurisdiction of the juvenile court for more than four years if, while a minor, I was found to be within the jurisdiction of the juvenile court for having committed an act that, if committed by an adult, would constitute a felony or a misdemeanor involving violence, as defined in ORS 166.470. I have never been convicted of a felony or found guilty, except for insanity under ORS 161.295, of a felony in the State of Oregon or elsewhere. I have not, within the last four years, been convicted of a misdemeanor or found guilty, except for insanity under ORS 161.295, of a misdemeanor. Except as provided in ORS 166.291 (1)(L), I have not been convicted of an offense involving controlled substances or completed a court-supervised drug diversion program. There are no outstanding warrants for my arrest and I am not free on any form of pretrial release. I have not been committed to the Oregon Health Authority under ORS 426.130, nor have I been found to be a person with mental illness and presently subject to an order prohibiting me from purchasing or possessing a firearm because of mental illness. If any of the previous conditions do apply to me, I have been granted relief or wish to petition for relief from the disability under ORS 166.274 or 166.293 or 18 U.S.C. 925(c) or have had the records expunged. I am not subject to a citation issued under ORS 163.735 or an order issued under ORS 30.866, 107.700 to 107.735 or 163.738. I have never received a dishonorable discharge from the Armed Forces of the United States. I am not required to register as a sex offender in any state. I understand I will be fingerprinted and photographed.

The rest of the app is mostly vital statistics; age, height, weight, hair color etc.

 

[blackmouth]

I picked up my conceal carry application today from the Klamath County Sheriff Department after reading all the statutes. I was a bit surprised that the application asks if you own a functioning firearm and if you do what make is it. This goes beyond what is required by the State to be on a CCL application. It seems to me that this is kind of back door registration. Not a universal registration but nevertheless. Of course, if a person is applying it is a given that he/she owns a handgun so maybe it isn't that big of a deal. It doesn't even specify that the gun is a handgun so I guess I will put down the junk muzzeloader I have. Well, it's not really junk but it's the least of the guns that I own.

Be aware that I am not a lawyer, however if I were submitting that form, in response to the query of "if you own a functioning firearm and if you do what make is it" I would write into the space provided, 'not applicable' and initial it.

 

[Doc In UPlace]

Maybe "N.O.Y.F.B."

 

[blackmouth]

Maybe "N.O.Y.F.B."

When I first read your response, I was flummoxed, and then I realized that N O Y F B was your intended reply to the question on the form. ----While I realize that your reponce exhibits a certain 'cache' it could be interpreted as a devil may care attitude by any level thinker.

Maybe "N.O.Y.F.B."

I premise that the difference in our proposed answers could be directly related to the attention that we choose to draw to oneself.

 

[PiratePast40]

If I recall, there was a thread some time ago about a sheriffs office in that part of the state. Not sure if it was Klamath County, but the gist of it was that they were undermanned, underfunded and overrun with meth labs. One of the deputies was giving a member a face full about wanting a permit. Boiled down to the guy knowing the deputy socially and it was going to be tough to raise a stink about the sheriffs office adding extra requirements with regard to CHLs. I can understand their frustration, but that's no reason to be rude to the law abiding, and taxpaying citizens.

 

[Doc In UPlace]

Oh I think level thinking is a relative term anyhow.
A person could translate the NOYFB attitude into a circle with a line drawn through it at the diagonal, for example. What are they gonna do, get a search warrant to confirm the answers on the application?
I have several family members who currently are, or have been police, and I work with police occasionally as an investigator so "sic caveat emptor" in regards to my perspective.

What's more I grew up in KF, up to freshman year of High School at Klamath Union, which probably makes it even more "don't try this at home. Ever.".

 

[eliduc]

I wouldn't malign the police officers in this county too much. I think most of them recognize that we have a lot of drug related crimes and that people have a right to protect themselves. The above description of our county is accurate and it is a large rural county with sparse law enforcement. This is what is shocking. Consrvative Eastern Oregon counties are held to be more pro gun friendly. The addition to the application I am sure came from higher up. Our elected sheriff has a long and distinguished law enforcement history. Unfortunately, it was with the LA Police Department. Yes, there is a temptation to ignore the question. I guess it depends on how much you want the license. The question I have is, if someone applies and has something in their background that they might not even be aware of for which there is a ground for denial other than a felony or misdemeanor conviction is the sheriff going to confiscate their firearms? Is the question designed to provide an excuse for denial where applicants refuse to answer it?

 

[The Heretic]

Oregon is "shall issue" if you meet the requirements.

I don't believe they can deny based on not telling them what firearms you own.

Personally, I would just ignore the question. If they make a stink about it, then I would make a stink about it right back. The sheriff cannot deny the application based on you not answering that question.

If you don't want to ignore it, then answer with the firearm that is the most innocuous firearm you own.

 

[eliduc]

Here's another one, perhaps worse than the last one. ORS 166.291 Section 3 A states: The application must also list the applicants residence address or addresses for the previous three years. The Klamath County Application on the top of page 2 states: List all states lived in as an adult (18 years and older) This seems to be in conflict with the statute and is a "substantial" varience from model application form provided by the statute. The danger here is that the application may be delayed, perhaps indefinitely if another liberal state (Calif. Washington) where an applicant lived 20 years ago fails to respond to a back ground check request.

 

[blackmouth]

'There should be law'.

 

[bnsaibum]

As far as I know there is no statute saying that one must own any firearms in order to apply for and get a CHL.

 

[eliduc]

As far as I know there is no statute saying that one must own any firearms in order to apply for and get a CHL.

You are correct. There isn't any such statute in Oregon. I could lie but I have a Curios &Relics license and a gun listed under that license. I'm not sure that gun would even be legal in California. Army Special 38 revolver.