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Pets and accidental discharges?

Discussion in 'Education & Training' started by LiaB, Jul 31, 2012.

  1. LiaB

    LiaB Vancouver, WA Member

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    I apologize if this is a completely ridiculous question. I was thinking about guns for HD with kids in the home and how to secure said guns, when I started thinking about other things in the home that might also cause safety concerns.

    So my question is: Is it possible for a pet to fire a loaded and "cocked" gun?

    Example: My hypothetical shotgun is sitting in the corner of the room, and since it is for HD it is ready to go. Could my hypothetical dog knock it over and then stick his nose/paw in the trigger guard and fire it?
     
  2. matt_w

    matt_w Hillsboro, OR Active Member

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    mjbskwim and (deleted member) like this.
  3. MrNiceGuy

    MrNiceGuy between springfield and shelbyville Well-Known Member

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    Why would it be impossible?

    Whenever I read something like this:
    All I can think is that you just answered your own question.
     
  4. PhysicsGuy

    PhysicsGuy Corvallis, OR Resident Science Nut

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    Does your dog know how to work a safety? Or do you not know how to activate one? :p
     
  5. Tony617

    Tony617 Washington State Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I keep my shotgun loaded with a full magazine and an empty chamber. I do not believe a shotgun is drop safe. I have a Mossberg 590A1 and it has a tang safety.
     
  6. LiaB

    LiaB Vancouver, WA Member

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    Matt: I know that the sound of racking a shotgun is supposed to make criminals flee all on it's own, but doesn't that go against basic HD where you are ready to go at all times?

    MrNiceGuy: You are right, I did end up answering my own question. But the real question is, why didn't any of my safety courses mention this? How does one balance HD with securely storing a firearm at all times? And why do so many people suggest a shotgun for HD when they are so very hard to secure?

    PhysicsGuy: A. Safeties fail and B. Dogs are smart. :D

    Tony617: So you have to disengage the safety and load the chamber before you can use the gun. That just seems like too many steps to me. I do agree with you though, about them not being drop safe.

    To recap: In addition to regular safety concerns, you should also consider the animals in your house. Thanks everyone for helping me think this situation through. It seems that every person has to decided what trade offs they are willing to make when it comes to safety and time to shoot. The most secure gun safe is going to cut down on your reaction time, but a firearm out in the open may be a safety hazard.
     
  7. Burt Gummer

    Burt Gummer Portland Completely Out of Ammo

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    [video=youtube;hO5TNU3fiJo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hO5TNU3fiJo[/video]
     
  8. Greenbug

    Greenbug Bend Well-Known Member

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    Maybe try storing your HD gun where your dog can't get to it....? A couple of pegs or hooks on the wall inside your closet above the door should work well for this. Or simply keep your closet door closed?
     
  9. Tony617

    Tony617 Washington State Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I keep the safety off and just have to rack the slide on my shotgun. I also have a pistol and have a bedside holster to keep it in. I keep my pistol cocked and locked.

    Here's the holster:

    http://www.cabelas.com/product/Blac...side+holster&WTz_l=Header;Search-All+Products
     
  10. davemata

    davemata Spokane, WA Well-Known Member

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    ?!?
    Just use the safety. A properly maintained shotgun won't have a failure at the safety. It's marginal to go hot while bringing the shotgun to the shoulder, that's how I shoot trap, and if I can do it, anyone can.

    If we're going to get twisted up over edge cases and what ifs, just leave the ammo out. If you're fine with leaving the chamber empty, then this isn't a huge difference.
     
  11. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    LMAO... Most military's are full of those. ;)
     
  12. Darknight

    Darknight Salem Active Member

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    Safety on, load magazine, hit slide release, but don't cycle the slide and then place where you want. Bad guy comes around, you take safety off, cycle the slide (universal warning) then pull the trigger. It doesn't get much more cat or dog proof then that.
     
  13. Riot

    Riot Benton County, Washington Well-Known Member

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    Most of all my guns are on FIRE with the trigger depressed and a magazine in the mag well. Shotgun has the tube filled, trigger depressed and on FIRE but obviously the chamber is empty (I double check all of them before the trigger is depressed). Only the pistols are loaded in condition one. And if they are not in my safe they are in a holster...always. This ensures that they are ready to go but still safe from a negligent discharge. This works for me and my guns, this may not work for you.

    I'm actually contemplating welding the shotgun safety on FIRE (it's a Mossberg 500A). If I have that bad boy loaded and pointing at something, I sure as heck don't want to be worrying about it being on SAFE.
     
  14. davemata

    davemata Spokane, WA Well-Known Member

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    Why warn? Wouldn't that sound give away position and intent, immediately escalating the situation, and at the same time giving away any surprise you have on a big, blinky silver platter? The warning was your locked windows and doors.
     
  15. Darknight

    Darknight Salem Active Member

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    Well, I was trying to stay on topic with my answer. The question had to do with animals; and I don't know of any other way to get a round from the magazine tube of a shotgun into the chamber, then to cyle the slide manually. The sound is just a side benefit, depending on how you look at it. However, I don't think anyone could argue that not having a round in the chamber would make it pretty much impossible, even for a very curious cat or dog, to fire it. But, if you happen to know a cat or dog that can do that, please let me know, I would like to see it for myself. :thumbup:
     
  16. davemata

    davemata Spokane, WA Well-Known Member

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    Heh, it would take a thumb.

    I'm not going to lay out my hd weapon habits for teh intarwebz, but my dog and cat have never fired my mossy, nor could they. To go from where it lives(d) to ready to play requires a grab, raising to the shoulder, and thumbing the safe.

    I guess one could get a rack or gun stand and mount it at eye level. Would prevent random hot doggin'.
     
  17. AlphaCoyote

    AlphaCoyote Oh, I get around. New Member

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    No round in the chamber. The racking IS the warning shot. The idea is not to kill, but to get the MF out of your house so you and your family live to be old. I'd give up a few objects in the house to avoid something more ugly. Lock the doors and windows before you go to bed, keep good insurance for the objects that have no value in comparison to your family, and think long term.

    Dogs can't rack a pump action shotgun. But they can step on a safety, come back and smell the trigger. Your kid walks into the room and says, "No Daisy!" Boom. You go buy a wheelchair. A small one. And then you live with your decision to keep a round in the chamber with a dog roaming the house.
     
  18. mat33

    mat33 Portland, OR Active Member

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    From Massad Ayoob The subtleties of safe firearms handling by Massad Ayoob

    The slide action shotgun is one of the most classic backwoods home firearms. It is customary to chamber a round and put the gun "on safe" when actually hunting with it. Problems rarely occur with this. However, I would strongly advise that the gun never be stored with a live shell in the chamber. The reason is that these guns are at least theoretically capable of firing if struck hard enough on either end. Once again, it is firing pin movement and "inertia discharge" that's at fault.

    You would think that if anyone needed a shell in the chamber of their shotgun all the time, it would be a working police officer who can face a life or death gunfight at any moment. Yet, though the repeating shotgun was a standard law enforcement weapon throughout the 20th century and remains so today, you will never find a police department that authorizes carrying one in the patrol car with a chambered shell.