Other State Permant US Resident Challenges California's Gun Laws

[rdb241]

NEWS: Permanent US Resident Challenges California Gun Laws - GetZone

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[Stomper]

Although I agree with the lawsuit.... but 35 years as a permanent resident alien? Get your bubblegumming U.S. citizenship already!

 

[asbtg]

I'm sure I'm illustrating my ignorance here but as he "retains Netherlands citizenship" he is de facto not a US Citizen and not privy to the Rights and Amendments due a Citizen, foreign-born or not. Am I wrong?

 

[The Heretic]

I'm sure I'm illustrating my ignorance here but as he "retains Netherlands citizenship" he is de facto not a US Citizen and not privy to the Rights and Amendments due a Citizen, foreign-born or not. Am I wrong?

1) All or at least most of the rights in the Bill of Rights are inalienable (inherent, natural) and therefore everybody has them.

2) The SCOTUS has ruled that at least some of the rights protected by the BOR legally apply to anybody in the USA, especially if they are here legally, whether a citizen or not. There are a few that only apply to citizens, such as the right to vote.

 

[asbtg]

Thank you for the clarification; I suppose a better way to put it would be "If you want all the benefits of citizenship, become one." I'd like to believe most of the BoR is inalienable but the history of civilizations in the Decadence phase proves otherwise. We need to fight for the 2nd, 4th and any others from whatever direction, whether we agree with the rationale or not or they will be dissolved. After 30+ years in this country if he wants to complain about his rights to a firearm, apply for Citizenship and vote about it. Anything else is piss in the wind.

 

[Tangent123123]

Washington State allows permanent residents to own firearms and carry concealed, but OR has a rule that restricts it. Not everyone has $725 in their pocket for the citizenship paperwork.

 

[capdek]

Although my wife and I moved here from Canada back in 2001 with the full intention of eventually becoming US citizens, it is a very long, tedious and expensive process, and if you ever intend on permanently moving back to your country of origin, as a US citizen, you are required by law to file your US 1040 the rest of your life no matter where you live. If you come here legally, you are obligated to pay US income tax, including deductions for Social Security and Medicare, but you are not eligible to vote or serve on a jury, and you will be denied any sort of security clearance. You are also not eligible for a Oregon CHL unless you file the N-300 "Declaration of Intent to Become a US Citizen" which my wife and I did back in 2008 when we finally got our permanent resident status (green cards). Since it was always our intent to become US citizens, we were able to file the N-300 in good conscious although there is no time requirement for actually following through with citizenship.
Although, I do think it is somewhat cheesy to come here and never actually apply for US citizenship, if this gentleman from the Netherlands intends on going back to his home country one day permanently, I might see why he would shy away from citizenship given the tax requirement. As long as he's here legally and paying his taxes and following the law, I do think he is entitled to the rights spelled out in the Constitution - including the second amendment.
My wife and I have always been very pro-American. We originally hail from Windsor, Canada which is right across the border from Detroit, MI. My Canadian father worked for many years in Detroit and my wife's Canadian father served in the US Army fighting the Japanese in the Aleutian Islands during WWII. My father-in-law wanted to move to the US after he was honorably discharged, but my mother-in-law wanted to stay in Canada to be close to her relatives. When my father-in-law passed in November of 2007, my mother-in-law told the funeral home her husband was a veteran, and so the funeral home arranged for a military display at the head of his casket and attendance at his service by a Canadian military honor guard. When my wife and I arrived, we saw that the display had the Canadian flag at the center with the flag of Ontario on the left and the UN flag on the right. I told the funeral people my father-in-law had proudly served in the US Army and he would most definitely want the US flag flying as part of the display. They told us they didn't have one, but you can bet your life my father-in-law did and so I went to the house and brought his US flag to the funeral home which they put up in place of the ridiculous UN flag. They must have told the Canadian honor guard about this because on the day of the service, two US Army soldiers were standing at the head and foot of his casket. I cried like a baby because I know how proud he would have been.
I feel a bit sorry for born Americans who will never experience the process of becoming a US citizen. Finally, after waiting many years, you get to stand before a Federal Judge, raise your right hand and pledge the Oath of Allegiance to the United States of America, say the Pledge of Allegiance and sing the Star Spangled Banner. It is an event my wife and I will never, ever forget. It is such an honor and yet so humbling to become a United States citizen and it is a privilege most of you will never experience. And when we see so many Americans (many of them right here in Portland) who treat their birthright with such disdain and disgust, we simply shake our heads in disbelief. They simply have no idea what it means to be an American. So sad.

 

[Tangent123123]

Canada recognizes dual citizenship, but not all countries do. So it makes sense for people from certain countries who plan on moving back to their originating country not become citizens.

 

[capdek]

Yes, that's true. Not sure about the Netherlands, but a colleague of mine is originally from Germany and he had to jump through a number of hoops to be able to retain his German citizenship before becoming a US citizen.
To be honest, I disagree with this.
When you become a US citizen, you swear under oath to renounce all prior allegiance to any foreign prince, potentate or country you have previously been a subject or citizen of. Your country of origin may accept your dual status, but the United States does not. It's true the US does not take away your foreign passport nor force you to renounce your previous citizenship with your country of origin, but the fact is, you are - under oath - renouncing your previous citizenship. That is a pretty serious step and it should not be taken lightly. When my wife and I swore our oath to the United States, we did so knowing full well that even though Canada may still consider us Canadian citizens, we have chosen to be American citizens only.

 

[capdek]

Here is the Oath of Allegiance to the United States of America:
"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."
You are required to stand, raise your right hand and swear this oath to become a United States citizen. It is a very serious thing and you should not say it unless you truly mean it.
It's shameful that so many of our politicians don't seem to take their oath to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States all that seriously.

 

[ob1]

Canada recognizes dual citizenship, but not all countries do. So it makes sense for people from certain countries who plan on moving back to their originating country not become citizens.

One reason is that some countries do not allow ownership of land (and firearm ownership) or drastically restrict it, by non-citizens. A viable approach in some cases is to naturalize in the US as a primary citizenship, and then to "re-affirm" citizenship in the original birth country in order to maintain an overseas household.. I know of several examples, such as vets married to foreign wives.

 

[Goosebrown]

I'm sure I'm illustrating my ignorance here but as he "retains Netherlands citizenship" he is de facto not a US Citizen and not privy to the Rights and Amendments due a Citizen, foreign-born or not. Am I wrong?

You are wrong. The 14th amendment states that all rights are extended equally to allbthe residents of a state except voting rights. If you're there you have the right.