Poll: Paul Harrell would not carry a P320 without safety.

[3MTA3]

or Kevin.

Guy is confused. A Chad (female equivalent: Stacy) is someone perceived to get a lot of tail. It's a term used by incels to reference the popular set -- IE. preppy jocks/social hot chicks.

You forgot Stacy's mom...

 

[wired]

You forgot Stacy's mom...

She's got it going on.

 

[3MTA3]

She's got it going on.

Never, forget Stacy's Mom

 

[mkwerx]

I have always been a fan of Paul... but the more I learn about firearms the more I find myself questioning him as a person, and therefore his videos as well.

Specifically what I am talking about is the fact that Paul has been involved in at least 2 major shooting incidents that left people dead. Paul was not convicted in either of these shootings, but the fact that he has even been involved in a single fatal shooting would raise my brow, and having it happen twice is either the worst luck in the world or something else is going on.

Anyway like I said I have always been a fan of Paul, but as I learn more about him and his past I find it harder and harder to take his advice seriously - especially when it comes to gun safety.

That's a strange way to judge a person. Some people's luck is different than others. I've had numerous incidents where the presence of a firearm has made a big difference. Thankfully I haven't had to put the trigger on them - Paul has. I doubt highly that he enjoyed doing so. There is only ONE incident documented and searchable publicly about his use of deadly force - that being when he was camping in eastern Oregon when some drunk jackazzes in a pickup truck decided to try running his wife over. He had an AR15 as a camp gun and shot the man who was trying to murder his wife. Grand Jury no-billed. If you can point to the other incident, I'd love to read about it - because I've looked for that info before and there was nothing that turned up on Google or Duck Duck Go besides a couple news articles about his eastern Oregon incident.

Paul has related another story where he and a friend were hunting in the desert when they started taking incoming rounds. No shots were returned by himself or his friend.

Paul has talked some of his military experience - he is a combat veteran, so maybe he's had to kill in service to his country before. He doesn't yammer on about it the way some other youtubers do to try and up his cred.

He also makes it plain in every video that his advice is not gospel and that the viewer should do for them what they decide is the best course of action. Hardly the mark of a megalomaniac or know-it-all.

There are members of this forum who have taken lives in self defense, and they don't freely share it. There are members here who have stacked bodies wearing the uniform of their country, they don't talk about it. Are those men to be judged because they've taken a life or lives in defense of themselves, their fellow soldiers/officers/citizens, or in defense of their country? I wouldn't think so, but as Paul likes to say "you be the judge" - I just hope that were you to find yourself in his shoes, you would be judged fairly.


As for the next bit - your questioning why a *military veteran* would chose to have a safety, especially on a gun that has proven to be unsafe when dropped - when the US military almost exclusively utilizes weapons with manual safeties? I believe training and familiarity shape those preferences. His stated reasoning for only carrying manual safety equipped P320s is the light nature of the trigger. If you have watched his other videos, his preferred carry semi-automatics almost all have safeties - his Beretta 92FS, his assorted 1911's, his FN FiveseveN - all safety equipped guns.

If you are comfortable carrying your pistol without a safety, that's what matters. I wouldn't carry a P320 that wasn't fixed (and I mean really fixed) under recall or of new enough production not to have the issues the original P320's had. They went boom readily when struck from behind or dropped. The Sig, unlike most other modern striker fired pistols, does not use a trigger safety as part of its design. If you look at Glock, Smith & Wesson, FN, Walther, Ruger, even Taurus - their striker fired pistols all have a trigger safety as the first and possibly most important mechanism. Secondly is the firing pin block. On those guns, the trigger cannot move rearward unless either the center pivoting safety is depressed first, or in the case of FN and Smith & Wesson, if the lower half of the trigger isn't depressed first since they use a jointed trigger face (though I think newer FN's have gone more Glock-like, I haven't fondled a 509 recently enough to remember or care)

The Sig doesn't have that. Part of the issue with the older 320's - the trigger shoe itself was heavy enough to have momentum when dropped to fire the gun. Part of what made the trigger so good on the 320 also made it less-safe than the others. If you look at other non-trigger-dongus equipped guns, you'll note that they are typically light-ish double action triggers with long trigger pulls to offset the risk of not having a manual thumb activated safety. The most recognizable of these guns would be the Kahr pistols. The original Walther P99 was a double action pistol with a heavy first shot and lighter follow up shots, with a decocker on the top of the slide.

Personally I can go either way - a manual safety is no hindrance nor is it necessarily a help. I actually prefer a manual safety on the Smith & Wesson M&P - not so much because of the extra layer of safety it provides, without the thumb safety it is as safe as any Glock. I like the safety because the shape, location, and size provide an excellent place for my shooting hand thumb to ride and not interfere with the slide stop. With a P320 - given the history of their unintentional boom-booms, I would maybe prefer the safety, because that's one more thing to keep the gun from putting an extra hole in me if I drop it.

My current carry gun doesn't have the thumb safety. I just bought a Walther PDP today that also does not have a thumb safety - I don't even think they have an option for it - and the trigger is far, far lighter and shorter in travel than my M&P. It also has a Glock-style dingus in the center of the trigger.

If your gun works for you, and you don't have nightmares or undue concerns about it - leave it as it is and carry on, as Kansas would say. If you ARE concerned, as has been mentioned you can retrofit one to your gun if you have the skills or the cash. Personally, I wouldn't mind having an X-carry 320 *with* the manual safety. The X-series pistols are very comfortable ergonomically, I love the beavertail they have that the original 320's don't, and they point so naturally.

I dunno how long you've been carrying a pistol, but its honestly normal to have second thoughts, concerns over your carry piece, and questions like that. When I carried a double action or DAO pistol - I used to worry "is my trigger too heavy, am I going to jerk it off target because its so heavy if I have to use the gun for real" - when I carried single actions, I worried the safety lever would accidentally come off and I've be walking around with a cocked & unlocked gun with a 3 or 4 lb trigger being the only thing between having a hole in my thigh or not. I've abandoned carry guns for one concern or another - some valid, some not so much looking back. I love how Springfield XD pistols shoot for me - but unless I grip them funky, they don't always reliably disengage the grip safety. These days there are after market extended versions that would negate that, that weren't around when I was carrying and shooting XD's. Back in the Sandy Hook days, I traded my Glock for a pistol that used metal magazines, because it looked like maybe we were going to get douched with nasty gun control, and honestly I was afraid that long-term, my Glock's polymer mags were going to crack and fail (not necessarily and unfounded worry, as I had a gen 4 Glock 19 magazine that was left loaded as a spare completely shatter without being dropped - just sitting it developed a major crack that rendered it useless on the spine of the magazine)

Your P320 is probably going to be fine. If you decide it's not, you've got a ton of guns out there that you may find better, and the 320 is in hot demand on the used market now so you could likely get out of it what you paid, maybe more. I just sold a Gen 3 Glock 26 today for $500 - that's what the gun sold for new (actually, more. I bought it from a friend who is LE, who was the original buyer. He bought it thru the Blue Label program, carried it for years as his secondary gun, then switched to the Glock 43 and 43X for backup / off duty carry)

Question really is why a military veteran who is a avid gun expert choose to have a safety only p320.

I have a full size x series p320 and it's very accurate but it has no safety. Wondering if I should add one…

 

[American123]

She's got it going on.

I am not disappointed this was already here because that was what I was going to write if it wasn't already.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Me too but way better.

 

[throneofbeards]

That's a strange way to judge a person. Some people's luck is different than others. I've had numerous incidents where the presence of a firearm has made a big difference. Thankfully I haven't had to put the trigger on them - Paul has. I doubt highly that he enjoyed doing so. There is only ONE incident documented and searchable publicly about his use of deadly force - that being when he was camping in eastern Oregon when some drunk jackazzes in a pickup truck decided to try running his wife over. He had an AR15 as a camp gun and shot the man who was trying to murder his wife. Grand Jury no-billed. If you can point to the other incident, I'd love to read about it - because I've looked for that info before and there was nothing that turned up on Google or Duck Duck Go besides a couple news articles about his eastern Oregon incident.

Paul has related another story where he and a friend were hunting in the desert when they started taking incoming rounds. No shots were returned by himself or his friend.

Paul has talked some of his military experience - he is a combat veteran, so maybe he's had to kill in service to his country before. He doesn't yammer on about it the way some other youtubers do to try and up his cred.

He also makes it plain in every video that his advice is not gospel and that the viewer should do for them what they decide is the best course of action. Hardly the mark of a megalomaniac or know-it-all.

There are members of this forum who have taken lives in self defense, and they don't freely share it. There are members here who have stacked bodies wearing the uniform of their country, they don't talk about it. Are those men to be judged because they've taken a life or lives in defense of themselves, their fellow soldiers/officers/citizens, or in defense of their country? I wouldn't think so, but as Paul likes to say "you be the judge" - I just hope that were you to find yourself in his shoes, you would be judged fairly.


As for the next bit - your questioning why a *military veteran* would chose to have a safety, especially on a gun that has proven to be unsafe when dropped - when the US military almost exclusively utilizes weapons with manual safeties? I believe training and familiarity shape those preferences. His stated reasoning for only carrying manual safety equipped P320s is the light nature of the trigger. If you have watched his other videos, his preferred carry semi-automatics almost all have safeties - his Beretta 92FS, his assorted 1911's, his FN FiveseveN - all safety equipped guns.

If you are comfortable carrying your pistol without a safety, that's what matters. I wouldn't carry a P320 that wasn't fixed (and I mean really fixed) under recall or of new enough production not to have the issues the original P320's had. They went boom readily when struck from behind or dropped. The Sig, unlike most other modern striker fired pistols, does not use a trigger safety as part of its design. If you look at Glock, Smith & Wesson, FN, Walther, Ruger, even Taurus - their striker fired pistols all have a trigger safety as the first and possibly most important mechanism. Secondly is the firing pin block. On those guns, the trigger cannot move rearward unless either the center pivoting safety is depressed first, or in the case of FN and Smith & Wesson, if the lower half of the trigger isn't depressed first since they use a jointed trigger face (though I think newer FN's have gone more Glock-like, I haven't fondled a 509 recently enough to remember or care)

The Sig doesn't have that. Part of the issue with the older 320's - the trigger shoe itself was heavy enough to have momentum when dropped to fire the gun. Part of what made the trigger so good on the 320 also made it less-safe than the others. If you look at other non-trigger-dongus equipped guns, you'll note that they are typically light-ish double action triggers with long trigger pulls to offset the risk of not having a manual thumb activated safety. The most recognizable of these guns would be the Kahr pistols. The original Walther P99 was a double action pistol with a heavy first shot and lighter follow up shots, with a decocker on the top of the slide.

Personally I can go either way - a manual safety is no hindrance nor is it necessarily a help. I actually prefer a manual safety on the Smith & Wesson M&P - not so much because of the extra layer of safety it provides, without the thumb safety it is as safe as any Glock. I like the safety because the shape, location, and size provide an excellent place for my shooting hand thumb to ride and not interfere with the slide stop. With a P320 - given the history of their unintentional boom-booms, I would maybe prefer the safety, because that's one more thing to keep the gun from putting an extra hole in me if I drop it.

My current carry gun doesn't have the thumb safety. I just bought a Walther PDP today that also does not have a thumb safety - I don't even think they have an option for it - and the trigger is far, far lighter and shorter in travel than my M&P. It also has a Glock-style dingus in the center of the trigger.

If your gun works for you, and you don't have nightmares or undue concerns about it - leave it as it is and carry on, as Kansas would say. If you ARE concerned, as has been mentioned you can retrofit one to your gun if you have the skills or the cash. Personally, I wouldn't mind having an X-carry 320 *with* the manual safety. The X-series pistols are very comfortable ergonomically, I love the beavertail they have that the original 320's don't, and they point so naturally.

I dunno how long you've been carrying a pistol, but its honestly normal to have second thoughts, concerns over your carry piece, and questions like that. When I carried a double action or DAO pistol - I used to worry "is my trigger too heavy, am I going to jerk it off target because its so heavy if I have to use the gun for real" - when I carried single actions, I worried the safety lever would accidentally come off and I've be walking around with a cocked & unlocked gun with a 3 or 4 lb trigger being the only thing between having a hole in my thigh or not. I've abandoned carry guns for one concern or another - some valid, some not so much looking back. I love how Springfield XD pistols shoot for me - but unless I grip them funky, they don't always reliably disengage the grip safety. These days there are after market extended versions that would negate that, that weren't around when I was carrying and shooting XD's. Back in the Sandy Hook days, I traded my Glock for a pistol that used metal magazines, because it looked like maybe we were going to get douched with nasty gun control, and honestly I was afraid that long-term, my Glock's polymer mags were going to crack and fail (not necessarily and unfounded worry, as I had a gen 4 Glock 19 magazine that was left loaded as a spare completely shatter without being dropped - just sitting it developed a major crack that rendered it useless on the spine of the magazine)

Your P320 is probably going to be fine. If you decide it's not, you've got a ton of guns out there that you may find better, and the 320 is in hot demand on the used market now so you could likely get out of it what you paid, maybe more. I just sold a Gen 3 Glock 26 today for $500 - that's what the gun sold for new (actually, more. I bought it from a friend who is LE, who was the original buyer. He bought it thru the Blue Label program, carried it for years as his secondary gun, then switched to the Glock 43 and 43X for backup / off duty carry)

Wow, thank you for that response. This is the kind of information I was seeking. You nailed it!!

 

[3MTA3]

The important thing about Stacy's mom is that in 20 years Stacy will still have it going on as well.

 

[American123]

The important thing about Stacy's mom is that in 20 years Stacy will still have it going on as well.

This is the sage advice many young men are missing out on these days.

 

[Member 52301]

The CHAZ was the name of the public space given it by rioters up in Seattle.

Oh yes, I remember that now. Another dumb bunny, dirt bag, thuggish, criminal rioting, filthy/dirty, etc. GROUP with it's own SPECIAL PLACE. Ugh.

I want to say something else BIG time (LOL) but it would get deleted or censored so I will not say it HERE when it comes to slang and regular people getting confused when the 'WOKE SALAMI GROUPS' (Cough!) want people to call them some SPECIAL NAME because it suits them for an hour or a day or whatever in their OWN LITTLE WORLD! LOL

Cate

 

[Member 52301]

That's a strange way to judge a person. Some people's luck is different than others. I've had numerous incidents where the presence of a firearm has made a big difference. Thankfully I haven't had to put the trigger on them - Paul has. I doubt highly that he enjoyed doing so. There is only ONE incident documented and searchable publicly about his use of deadly force - that being when he was camping in eastern Oregon when some drunk jackazzes in a pickup truck decided to try running his wife over. He had an AR15 as a camp gun and shot the man who was trying to murder his wife. Grand Jury no-billed. If you can point to the other incident, I'd love to read about it - because I've looked for that info before and there was nothing that turned up on Google or Duck Duck Go besides a couple news articles about his eastern Oregon incident.

Paul has related another story where he and a friend were hunting in the desert when they started taking incoming rounds. No shots were returned by himself or his friend.

Paul has talked some of his military experience - he is a combat veteran, so maybe he's had to kill in service to his country before. He doesn't yammer on about it the way some other youtubers do to try and up his cred.

He also makes it plain in every video that his advice is not gospel and that the viewer should do for them what they decide is the best course of action. Hardly the mark of a megalomaniac or know-it-all.

There are members of this forum who have taken lives in self defense, and they don't freely share it. There are members here who have stacked bodies wearing the uniform of their country, they don't talk about it. Are those men to be judged because they've taken a life or lives in defense of themselves, their fellow soldiers/officers/citizens, or in defense of their country? I wouldn't think so, but as Paul likes to say "you be the judge" - I just hope that were you to find yourself in his shoes, you would be judged fairly.


As for the next bit - your questioning why a *military veteran* would chose to have a safety, especially on a gun that has proven to be unsafe when dropped - when the US military almost exclusively utilizes weapons with manual safeties? I believe training and familiarity shape those preferences. His stated reasoning for only carrying manual safety equipped P320s is the light nature of the trigger. If you have watched his other videos, his preferred carry semi-automatics almost all have safeties - his Beretta 92FS, his assorted 1911's, his FN FiveseveN - all safety equipped guns.

If you are comfortable carrying your pistol without a safety, that's what matters. I wouldn't carry a P320 that wasn't fixed (and I mean really fixed) under recall or of new enough production not to have the issues the original P320's had. They went boom readily when struck from behind or dropped. The Sig, unlike most other modern striker fired pistols, does not use a trigger safety as part of its design. If you look at Glock, Smith & Wesson, FN, Walther, Ruger, even Taurus - their striker fired pistols all have a trigger safety as the first and possibly most important mechanism. Secondly is the firing pin block. On those guns, the trigger cannot move rearward unless either the center pivoting safety is depressed first, or in the case of FN and Smith & Wesson, if the lower half of the trigger isn't depressed first since they use a jointed trigger face (though I think newer FN's have gone more Glock-like, I haven't fondled a 509 recently enough to remember or care)

The Sig doesn't have that. Part of the issue with the older 320's - the trigger shoe itself was heavy enough to have momentum when dropped to fire the gun. Part of what made the trigger so good on the 320 also made it less-safe than the others. If you look at other non-trigger-dongus equipped guns, you'll note that they are typically light-ish double action triggers with long trigger pulls to offset the risk of not having a manual thumb activated safety. The most recognizable of these guns would be the Kahr pistols. The original Walther P99 was a double action pistol with a heavy first shot and lighter follow up shots, with a decocker on the top of the slide.

Personally I can go either way - a manual safety is no hindrance nor is it necessarily a help. I actually prefer a manual safety on the Smith & Wesson M&P - not so much because of the extra layer of safety it provides, without the thumb safety it is as safe as any Glock. I like the safety because the shape, location, and size provide an excellent place for my shooting hand thumb to ride and not interfere with the slide stop. With a P320 - given the history of their unintentional boom-booms, I would maybe prefer the safety, because that's one more thing to keep the gun from putting an extra hole in me if I drop it.

My current carry gun doesn't have the thumb safety. I just bought a Walther PDP today that also does not have a thumb safety - I don't even think they have an option for it - and the trigger is far, far lighter and shorter in travel than my M&P. It also has a Glock-style dingus in the center of the trigger.

If your gun works for you, and you don't have nightmares or undue concerns about it - leave it as it is and carry on, as Kansas would say. If you ARE concerned, as has been mentioned you can retrofit one to your gun if you have the skills or the cash. Personally, I wouldn't mind having an X-carry 320 *with* the manual safety. The X-series pistols are very comfortable ergonomically, I love the beavertail they have that the original 320's don't, and they point so naturally.

I dunno how long you've been carrying a pistol, but its honestly normal to have second thoughts, concerns over your carry piece, and questions like that. When I carried a double action or DAO pistol - I used to worry "is my trigger too heavy, am I going to jerk it off target because its so heavy if I have to use the gun for real" - when I carried single actions, I worried the safety lever would accidentally come off and I've be walking around with a cocked & unlocked gun with a 3 or 4 lb trigger being the only thing between having a hole in my thigh or not. I've abandoned carry guns for one concern or another - some valid, some not so much looking back. I love how Springfield XD pistols shoot for me - but unless I grip them funky, they don't always reliably disengage the grip safety. These days there are after market extended versions that would negate that, that weren't around when I was carrying and shooting XD's. Back in the Sandy Hook days, I traded my Glock for a pistol that used metal magazines, because it looked like maybe we were going to get douched with nasty gun control, and honestly I was afraid that long-term, my Glock's polymer mags were going to crack and fail (not necessarily and unfounded worry, as I had a gen 4 Glock 19 magazine that was left loaded as a spare completely shatter without being dropped - just sitting it developed a major crack that rendered it useless on the spine of the magazine)

Your P320 is probably going to be fine. If you decide it's not, you've got a ton of guns out there that you may find better, and the 320 is in hot demand on the used market now so you could likely get out of it what you paid, maybe more. I just sold a Gen 3 Glock 26 today for $500 - that's what the gun sold for new (actually, more. I bought it from a friend who is LE, who was the original buyer. He bought it thru the Blue Label program, carried it for years as his secondary gun, then switched to the Glock 43 and 43X for backup / off duty carry)

Thank you for your post and explanation.

Cate

 

[Stomper]

It's Chad's, in case no one else said it yet.. But being a Chad can also mean a super alpha dude too

Are you sure they're not called Chodes instead?

 

[OldTengu]

I wouldn't carry one, period. I'd rather carry a shield or my 43.

 

[wired]

The important thing about Stacy's mom is that in 20 years Stacy will still have it going on as well.

Yeah, But you'll be divorced from Stacy and some other guy will be fondling the silicone.

 

[mkwerx]

Yeah, But you'll be divorced from Stacy and some other guy will be fondling the silicone.

Yep, and the spousal support will pay for the occasional lift or enhancement too.

 

[Old Dog]

Seven pages dissecting a "Youtube personality's" preference for carry mode of a pistol he doesn't even carry?

Must be a slow month for topics in the wide world of firearms.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Are you sure they're not called Chodes instead?

Taint true!

 

[Stomper]

Taint true!

It's a urethral truth!

 

[Red98422]

before I can respond to your post here is a list of caveats I have to address first

This was so well done lol, I don't know if others got the joke though

 

[PaulF]

Around time 4:30 Paul Harrell says he would not carry the p320 without a safety! Do any of you carry the p320 without a safety?
Video

Paul F wouldn't carry a carry a P320 period.


But with a good holster manual thumb safety isn't required.