Poll: Paul Harrell would not carry a P320 without safety.

[Andy54Hawken]

The question is not freedom to be different, the question is… is it safer?

Both questions go "hand in hand".

Is it safer...?
For who....?

Just 'cause Paul Harrell thinks its safer....just means that he thinks its safer....and that he does something a certain way.
It may not be safer or work for someone else.

Carry as you wish...carry how it works for you....is my and has always been my position.
Andy

 

[Stomper]

Both questions go "hand in hand".

Is it safer...?
For who....?

Just 'cause Paul Harrell thinks its safer....just means that he thinks its safer....and that he does something a certain way.
It may not be safer or work for someone else.

Carry as you wish...carry how it works for you....is my and has always been my position.
Andy

In other words, Andy is saying….. "it's YOUR testicles at stake, you can risk shooting them off (or not) if that's your choice".



Geez….. SOME people are just so thick-skulled around here.

 

[throneofbeards]

Both questions go "hand in hand".

Is it safer...?
For who....?

Just 'cause Paul Harrell thinks its safer....just means that he thinks its safer....and that he does something a certain way.
It may not be safer or work for someone else.

Carry as you wish...carry how it works for you....is my and has always been my position.
Andy

You're just a green haired relativist. Things are inherently safer or not. No such thing as "it depends" unless you went to Berkeley for a good brain washing

 

[OregonForest]

You're just a green haired relativist. Things are inherently safer or not. No such thing as "it depends" unless you went to Berkeley for a good brain washing

ackshually zhe has purple hair!

 

[Stomper]

You're just a green haired relativist. Things are inherently safer or not. No such thing as "it depends" unless you went to Berkeley for a good brain washing

Actually…. Andy went to Ranger school, and then Somalia University, among others.

 

[throneofbeards]

ackshually zhe has purple hair!

Mine is zebra

 

[American123]

You're just a green haired relativist. Things are inherently safer or not. No such thing as "it depends" unless you went to Berkeley for a good brain washing

I will be more direct.

It is safer in the aspect that you are less likely to accidentally have the firearm discharge if it has a safety engaged and you are habitual about using it when not actively firing it.

Boiled down for you: "Is it safer?" - Yes.

Where the realm of "it depends" exists - regardless of one's attendance to Berkley, but purely as part of the population capable of critical thinking - is that if you are evaluating a pistol using all factors, the rules of firearm safety are universal for any firearm, if a person is adherring to them diligently and without fail, a safety mechanism could encourage carelessness because it can add to the attitude "the gun is safe if the safety is on" and the rules of firearm safety don't apply in that instance. I've observed this before where people felt they could ignore the rules of firearm safety if their guns safety mechanism was engaged. While I understand and agree that it is possible to point guns at people either purposefully or accidentally without shooting them, it is not a habit that promotes a safe experience for others/self. Hence why, "it depends" is definitely valid until those extraneous factors are quantified.

It's like doing math with multiple variables and asking for 1 rational number answer - unless it can be reduced or simplified to a single variable, there will be a range of solutions.

 

[throneofbeards]

I will be more direct.

It is safer in the aspect that you are less likely to accidentally have the firearm discharge if it has a safety engaged and you are habitual about using it when not actively firing it.

Boiled down for you: "Is it safer?" - Yes.

Question really is why a military veteran who is a avid gun expert choose to have a safety only p320.

I have a full size x series p320 and it's very accurate but it has no safety. Wondering if I should add one…

 

[Andy54Hawken]

You're just a green haired relativist. Things are inherently safer or not. No such thing as "it depends" unless you went to Berkeley for a good brain washing

No....but truth be told here....I wouldn't mind green hair...considering the hairline I have left.

In any event and in all seriousness :
I would suggest that you read and follow forum rules #1and #3.
Andy

 

[American123]

Question really is why a military veteran who is a avid gun expert choose to have a safety only p320.

I have a full size x series p320 and it's very accurate but it has no safety. Wondering if I should add one…

Sounds like you should have led with what your question really was then.

He obviously feels more confident if that pistol has a safety, and it doesn't necessarily mean anything more than that.

For example, I am an avid Glock user and trust them with my life, but when I carry in a manner that a pistol is pointing in the direction of my penis and testicles, I still like to use the Sig 938 with the external safety and hammer, because I have the option to render it incapable of firing even if it suffered catastrophic damage or the trigger was somehow pulled. Even if the Glock theoretically was perfectly safe, I still feel better using the Sig for that purpose and it doesn't have to have any more legitimacy than that.

 

[American123]

No....but truth be told here....I wouldn't mind green hair...considering the hairline I have left.

In any event and in all seriousness :
I would suggest that you read and follow forum rules #1and #3.
Andy

Plus - if you had green hair you'd have more natural camouflage with foliage, assuming the hue was similar and you weren't looking like a poison dart frog.

 

[throneofbeards]

Sounds like you should have led with what your question really was then.

He obviously feels more confident if that pistol has a safety, and it doesn't necessarily mean anything more than that.

For example, I am an avid Glock user and trust them with my life, but when I carry in a manner that a pistol is pointing in the direction of my penis and testicles, I still like to use the Sig 938 with the external safety and hammer, because I have the option to render it incapable of firing even if it suffered catastrophic damage or the trigger was somehow pulled. Even if the Glock theoretically was perfectly safe, I still feel better using the Sig for that purpose and it doesn't have to have any more legitimacy than that.

Good answer. That's my thinking to

 

[American123]

Oh here comes male Karen thirsty for control and attention.

In an attempt to "be excellent to eachother" I'm going to let you know in case you didn't, that being an outright bubblegum to other people isn't something that is encouraged on the forum and while you're welcome to continue showing your skills in that ability if you find the need, it won't be well received or garner a positive result.

Andy was just being less direct than I about trying to help you.

 

[3MTA3]

All my pistols have a safety. The reason is that Mrs. 3M's does and I keep operation consistent for her sake. I've also ingrained swiping off the safety as I raise to a shooting position and back on as I lower it. Doesn't slow me down a bit.

Swipe on, swipe off...

Yer pistol yer choice.

 

[DirectDrive]

The question is not freedom to be different, the question is… is it safer?

You have to decide for yourself.
Some people don't want to have "one in the pipe" (condition 3, Israeli Carry)
Some want a manual safety
Some don't want a manual safety

The real safety is your training, your discipline.....aka your brain.

 

[throneofbeards]

You have to decide for yourself.
Some people don't want to have "one in the pipe" (condition 3, Israeli Carry)
Some want a manual safety
Some don't want a manual safety

The real safety is your training, your discipline.....aka your brain.

Great point, so Israeli military and police do not chamber a round?

 

[American123]

Another lecture by someone who's lecture was not requested. I think they're called involuntary pep talks.

There's an ignore button if you don't want to see my writings in the future, based on our exchange thus far is seems like you've already helped a lot of people practice how to find it.

 

[P7M13]

Whole Lotta feedin' going on...

 

[WillametteWill]

I would suggest that you carry in the manner which works best you and your situation.

This could be the same as a you tube gun guy or not....
In any event...its your life and your choice...what or how someone else does things may be good for them...but not for you.
Andy

The question is not freedom to be different, the question is… is it safer?

This is an area where I know my view differs from what has become the "norm" in gun culture. First, I 100% agree with Andy's statement above and don't judge people on their manner of carry, whether it be AIWB or no safety. I like to have discussions to learn more. I've thought about starting a thread on this topic just to hear from others that do not share my view.

I'm pro-safety on striker fired guns. I worked in law enforcement during the period where we shifted from revolvers to semiautos. Many departments initially went to DA/SA guns to have a longer, heavier first trigger pull to help reduce accidental/negligent discharges. Generally most have obviously switched to striker fired guns. There is some more recent research to show that ND's are about 3x more likely with the lighter trigger pull of a SA or striker fired gun than with a 12 pound DA pull. There is also research (out of Germany) to show that even experienced officers tend to touch to the trigger when their guns are drawn and they don't even know it.

As a result, I have this discussion with my students, most of which are newer shooters, encourage them to seek other informed opinions, and decide what is best for them. One trend that I'm seeing is lighter and lighter trigger weights on SF guns. I talk with folks who frequently have pull weights at what my 1911 triggers are at, about 4 1/2 pounds. Many would say I would be crazy to carry a 1911 with no safety and the grip safety disconnected (and I would agree) yet they think a SF gun with the same pull albeit a slightly longer pull is okay. I would disagree.

In the end, we are still in America, and I don't think any less of someone who carries a Glock. They may be right, I may be wrong. Their perspectives are worthy of my considerations.

Things are inherently safer or not.

Respectfully disagree. I've pointed out my preference of safeties. However, the next person could point out that if you forget to take your safety off in a gunfight this will be unsafe and cause you to die. I've been to and led enough classes to see, many times, where when you add some stress, people forget to disengage their safety. It is a training issue, but it is still an issue.

Subjects in this area are rarely black and white. Like in law enforcement, the only thing black and white are the doors on the cars.

 

[Stomper]