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You did a fine job of completely misunderstanding me.

What I was saying is that the people presented to us as R or D aren't any different. There are absolute differences in Americans whose individual ideals reflect the R or the D, but the puppets(Obummer being one) aren't any different.

See, there is also an element on this forum that implies that any argument against the bullbubblegum being forced down our throats is "negative" and "combatant". Of course it is. What else would any argument be at it's core? I feel sorry for anyone that disagrees with me that isn't passionate enough to call me out. Not that you disagree, but that you could be so emasculated as to suggest we shouldn't even disagree any more.

Leftism is in fact a disease. Anyone that thinks my rights are on any bargaining table is in fact the enemy. Anyone with goals of the continued stripping of American values has no place in my world. "Tolerance" is still just another word for not having the fortitude to care about right or wrong anymore. I'll never stoop to that level.

But hey, you joined for talk of shooting sports and firearms. Why even spread your obvious Lefty views in the Legal/Political section? Anyone tired of people posting opinions in the opinion section should be angry at the existence of that section in the first place.


I don't recall saying any of that. Nor do I feel emasculated (just ask your buddy Taku down at the bottom there, he's always crying about me giving him bubblegum that he can't process). If you truly think that politicians on the Right have any more interest in preserving your rights than those on the Left, then you are an idiot, and your own worst enemy. And if you go around calling people diseased for expressing an opinion that doesn't meet with your own, then you're no better than the people you complain about.

As I recall it was Bush who introduced the Patriot Act in his first term, a huge abuse of our rights. He could have removed it in his second right? Then you blame the next guy for taking advantage of it! Of course they did, which government wouldn't!? Views like that are as narrow minded as it gets.

I'd like to know what makes my views obviously "lefty" though, as I guarantee that I'm more conservative than some of you. In fact you're outright beneath me, and I wouldn't let some of the trash on here water my lawn. I do believe in a balanced discussion though (which is what a political forum should really be about, rather than the exact opposite that you state in your response, AND the whole point of reply), and working toward the good of the people and the country, that also means parties working together to get anything done. This is something that appears to be beyond your train of thought, as does the fact that if you want your counterparts to take you seriously or listen to you then you have to listen in return, and do so without getting angry and resorting to name calling.
 
^^^ Leftism used to be Codependence but that term is considered out of date. Nowadays the buzz phrase is Pathalogical Altruism.

There are plenty or morons from the right collecting unemployment, and receiving free healthcare from free "lefty" clinics. They could always get a job at McDonald's IF they actually wanted a job.
 
Bush used the Patriot Act to fight terrorists, the current administration has greatly expanded its scope to persecute its "enemies both foreign and domestic." Not a lot of Rs sponsoring all these bills to strip us of our right to self defense and when those fail miserably now choose to tax firearms and ammo. Are you even OLD enough to remember Bush 1 as an adult. Some of us older folks experienced the 60s and Vietnam, and Carter, and Clinton, and thank the Lord for Reagan. We've also watched a strong country diminish because some people think personal responsibility for actions are unnecessary. Also that people who produce by some reason should hand it over to those who simply take. So are we outspoken, heck yeah. Will we quietly go in to the night...NOPE. We will turn the tide either at the ballot or by other means. Wanna know why? Because right is on our side. The Constitution IS the Law of the Land and plenty of Americans still care about oaths. The current aberration in power will go away in 2014 or definitely in 2016 and the course correction will be made. The money to take care of the non producers is running out. Tell us, 3 things for the country that the current Administration has improved in it nearly 5 years in office without blaming it all on Bush again. Let me guess, you lost high school track race because your mom or dad wasn't in the stands or your girlfriend dumped you before the big meet?


Brutus Out
 
I don't recall saying any of that. Nor do I feel emasculated (just ask your buddy Taku down at the bottom there, he's always crying about me giving him bubblegum that he can't process). If you truly think that politicians on the Right have any more interest in preserving your rights than those on the Left, then you are an idiot, and your own worst enemy. And if you go around calling people diseased for expressing an opinion that doesn't meet with your own, then you're no better than the people you complain about.

As I recall it was Bush who introduced the Patriot Act in his first term, a huge abuse of our rights. He could have removed it in his second right? Then you blame the next guy for taking advantage of it! Of course they did, which government wouldn't!? Views like that are as narrow minded as it gets.

I'd like to know what makes my views obviously "lefty" though, as I guarantee that I'm more conservative than some of you. In fact you're outright beneath me, and I wouldn't let some of the trash on here water my lawn. I do believe in a balanced discussion though (which is what a political forum should really be about, rather than the exact opposite that you state in your response, AND the whole point of reply), and working toward the good of the people and the country, that also means parties working together to get anything done. This is something that appears to be beyond your train of thought, as does the fact that if you want your counterparts to take you seriously or listen to you then you have to listen in return, and do so without getting angry and resorting to name calling.

Ha! I love that you constantly accuse those of your own tactics. Name calling? You're right there with your remarks of "idiot". "Beneath" you? Please, you are the trash we were warned and are doing the warning of. I know exactly who brought The Patriot Act in and I have never defended that. You however have defended King O and obviously voted for him.

Really, I am an individual with individual rights that I will protect. I won't pretend that I am required to follow some unwritten rule when expressing exactly how disgusted I am with the direction our country has taken. I will not allow someone else's fear that true statements somehow allow our government to commit illegal acts, which is exactly how all this came about.

Finally, to clear up a simple matter of fact, Bus brought in The Patriot Act and never spoke against it, only for it. Why would I accuse him of the double standard Obongo is guilty of? He's the one that screamed AGAINST it, then not only renewed it, but expanded it and then did illegal bubblegum behind our backs on top of it all.

No wonder Taku is constantly smoking you with reality. You can't possibly get ahold of it.
 
Bush used the Patriot Act to fight terrorists, the current administration has greatly expanded its scope to persecute its "enemies both foreign and domestic." Not a lot of Rs sponsoring all these bills to strip us of our right to self defense and when those fail miserably now choose to tax firearms and ammo. Are you even OLD enough to remember Bush 1 as an adult. Some of us older folks experienced the 60s and Vietnam, and Carter, and Clinton, and thank the Lord for Reagan. We've also watched a strong country diminish because some people think personal responsibility for actions are unnecessary. Also that people who produce by some reason should hand it over to those who simply take. So are we outspoken, heck yeah. Will we quietly go in to the night...NOPE. We will turn the tide either at the ballot or by other means. Wanna know why? Because right is on our side. The Constitution IS the Law of the Land and plenty of Americans still care about oaths. The current aberration in power will go away in 2014 or definitely in 2016 and the course correction will be made. The money to take care of the non producers is running out. Tell us, 3 things for the country that the current Administration has improved in it nearly 5 years in office without blaming it all on Bush again. Let me guess, you lost high school track race because your mom or dad wasn't in the stands or your girlfriend dumped you before the big meet?


Brutus Out

And how many terrorist attacks have occurred on US since 2001? How many were stopped thanks to the PA? The Patriots Act was an excuse that has assisted the government, the present administration and governments to come in exacting greater control over the population. Do you know that anyone in the world can open a bank account in the US without ever having been a resident. Do you know that whereas a Green Card holder (here legally) cannot vote, in many cases cannot claim unemployment or food stamps, but they CAN buy as many guns as they like. They sound like privileges that would assist terrorism to me.

Domestic terrorism is still terrorism, unless you're qualifying something under the rather stupid age old adage of "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter." What makes your act more honorable than someone else's? Is it simply that you agree with one, and not the other.

You tell me three positive things that any administration has done for the US since 1943 or earlier, that were greater than the bad they ultimately inflicted on us or someone else.

And why is it that you self proclaimed "wise old guys" feel the need to response and interject your comments with personal insults and half *** attempts at sarcasm.
 
Bush used the Patriot Act to fight terrorists, the current administration has greatly expanded its scope to persecute its "enemies both foreign and domestic." Not a lot of Rs sponsoring all these bills to strip us of our right to self defense and when those fail miserably now choose to tax firearms and ammo. Are you even OLD enough to remember Bush 1 as an adult. Some of us older folks experienced the 60s and Vietnam, and Carter, and Clinton, and thank the Lord for Reagan. We've also watched a strong country diminish because some people think personal responsibility for actions are unnecessary. Also that people who produce by some reason should hand it over to those who simply take. So are we outspoken, heck yeah. Will we quietly go in to the night...NOPE. We will turn the tide either at the ballot or by other means. Wanna know why? Because right is on our side. The Constitution IS the Law of the Land and plenty of Americans still care about oaths. The current aberration in power will go away in 2014 or definitely in 2016 and the course correction will be made. The money to take care of the non producers is running out. Tell us, 3 things for the country that the current Administration has improved in it nearly 5 years in office without blaming it all on Bush again. Let me guess, you lost high school track race because your mom or dad wasn't in the stands or your girlfriend dumped you before the big meet?


Brutus Out

The important thing to remember, no matter who is in power. Once you give the government a powerful tool to "fight terrorists", "quell insurrection", it will be only a matter of time before those new powers are used on you.
 
The politics forum on this board has really gone to the dogs recently.

Any moment I expect the UFO nuts to show up....they'd fit right in.

giorgio_tsoukalos_aliens.png
 
And how many terrorist attacks have occurred on US since 2001? How many were stopped thanks to the PA? The Patriots Act was an excuse that has assisted the government, the present administration and governments to come in exacting greater control over the population. Do you know that anyone in the world can open a bank account in the US without ever having been a resident. Do you know that whereas a Green Card holder (here legally) cannot vote, in many cases cannot claim unemployment or food stamps, but they CAN buy as many guns as they like. They sound like privileges that would assist terrorism to me.

Domestic terrorism is still terrorism, unless you're qualifying something under the rather stupid age old adage of "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter." What makes your act more honorable than someone else's? Is it simply that you agree with one, and not the other.

You tell me three positive things that any administration has done for the US since 1943 or earlier, that were greater than the bad they ultimately inflicted on us or someone else.

And why is it that you self proclaimed "wise old guys" feel the need to response and interject your comments with personal insults and half *** attempts at sarcasm.

Typical, with zero balance in your intellectual bank account you can't answer my question on 3 things. For me, its easy....

Beat Nazi Germany who deserved it, in 1945, Beat Japan in 1945 who totally deserved it, Berlin Airlift saved hundreds of thousands from starving to death.
Kennedy: Lowered taxes as a Dem, Kept Russian Nukes out of Cuba, got the US into Space. Bad : he started to ramp up Vietnam with "advisors".

Whose supporting domestic terrorism? Nowhere did I say I support that. Who cares if someone has a bank account and doesn't live here. Switzerland is fine with that. Green cards are for education or coming to work here, or rarely for political asylum. Why should a person with a green card receive unlimited social services??? And if you seriously wonder why someone with a green card should be allowed to vote this conversation is over as there no forensic specialist that could pierce your wall of illogic. Sorry, if a person isn't a US citizen they don't have a say in our national political process, morally, ethically or legally.

Brutus Out
 
1970 a school mates dad who was a member of the John Birch Society, a true pro constitution organization explained to us all about the New World Order. Well At first I thought yeah right!. Over the years I have watched the New World Order grow. People were ignorant in the 1970s of what was going on and these days people are way more ignorant because things are quickening and they still can't see it.
 
Ha! I love that you constantly accuse those of your own tactics. Name calling? You're right there with your remarks of "idiot". "Beneath" you? Please, you are the trash we were warned and are doing the warning of. I know exactly who brought The Patriot Act in and I have never defended that. You however have defended King O and obviously voted for him.

Really, I am an individual with individual rights that I will protect. I won't pretend that I am required to follow some unwritten rule when expressing exactly how disgusted I am with the direction our country has taken. I will not allow someone else's fear that true statements somehow allow our government to commit illegal acts, which is exactly how all this came about.

Finally, to clear up a simple matter of fact, Bus brought in The Patriot Act and never spoke against it, only for it. Why would I accuse him of the double standard Obongo is guilty of? He's the one that screamed AGAINST it, then not only renewed it, but expanded it and then did illegal bubblegum behind our backs on top of it all.

No wonder Taku is constantly smoking you with reality. You can't possibly get ahold of it.

I don't accuse, I state facts that can be seen in response to other peoples comments all across this board. To which I am indeed also guilty, I'd be the first to admit it. I'm also of the school of "don't give it, if you can't take it." I'd say the same to your face too, which is the biggest difference between me and the army of armchair generals that have apparently been talking a good fight for the past 40 - 50 years waiting for their time to come. I did not vote for Obama, you however most likely voted for Bush (the genuine that he is, and solely because he's a Republican) twice.

No wonder Taku is constantly smoking you with reality. You can't possibly get ahold of it.
Just for this sentence, any credibility I thought you might have just went out the window.
 
Typical, with zero balance in your intellectual bank account you can't answer my question on 3 things. For me, its easy....

Beat Nazi Germany who deserved it, in 1945, Beat Japan in 1945 who totally deserved it, Berlin Airlift saved hundreds of thousands from starving to death.
Kennedy: Lowered taxes as a Dem, Kept Russian Nukes out of Cuba, got the US into Space. Bad : he started to ramp up Vietnam with "advisors".

Whose supporting domestic terrorism? Nowhere did I say I support that. Who cares if someone has a bank account and doesn't live here. Switzerland is fine with that. Green cards are for education or coming to work here, or rarely for political asylum. Why should a person with a green card receive unlimited social services??? And if you seriously wonder why someone with a green card should be allowed to vote this conversation is over as there no forensic specialist that could pierce your wall of illogic. Sorry, if a person isn't a US citizen they don't have a say in our national political process, morally, ethically or legally.

Brutus Out


We made money out of WWII, and not after watching a number of allied nations fight for 4 years, while selling them bubblegum that the people thought we gave freely. Out of Great Britain alone we made 115 billion GBP + 2% interest on the lease lend program (that they finished paying back in 2006). We then used liberated nazi's for the space program and instigated the Cold War, and tested nuclear weapons on our own soil for 50 years. We didn't go to war until Japan bombed Pearl Harbor (largely due to the volume of antisemitism and lack of US public support for the war in Europe). None of which was done out of goodness of our hearts, perhaps I should have stipulated that in my question, although I did see the WWII statement coming before I even finished typing.

I'll give you a score of one for the Cuban Missile crisis, and another half a point for blind patriotism.

Regarding Green Card holders, they also pay into the system, are accountable to our laws, live, work, and raise families here, citizenship is only about a matter of money, as is attaining a Green Card in the first place. It seems fair to me that they should be entitled to unemployment (that they like us citizens pay for) if they need it. I noticed you didn't pick a problem with them owning as many guns as they like. On that point you have a double standard.
 
Renfield, still waiting for your answers to three things the current administration has done right.... SILENCE, I thought so. Of course you didn't vote for Obama, you either didn't vote, weren't legally allowed to vote or voted for a third party. Come on up to Skagit County and I will debate you face to face, hell, we will even sell tickets to support a charity.

And I am pretty sure that no one on this site has a high enough current security clearance to comment with knowledge on whether the Patriot Act has stopped terrorist attacks on American soil so that is a red herring question. Or if they do they aren't going be a security leak.

Brutus Out
 
Renfield, still waiting for your answers to three things the current administration has done right.... SILENCE, I thought so. Of course you didn't vote for Obama, you either didn't vote, weren't legally allowed to vote or voted for a third party. Come on up to Skagit County and I will debate you face to face, hell, we will even sell tickets to support a charity.

And I am pretty sure that no one on this site has a high enough current security clearance to comment with knowledge on whether the Patriot Act has stopped terrorist attacks on American soil so that is a red herring question. Or if they do they aren't going be a security leak.

Brutus Out

That's because I can't think of any. I never said otherwise. ... actually having said that, pulling the troops out of Iraq, and reducing numbers in Afghanistan. I wouldn't credit him with OBL since he wasn't the trigger man. The VA's budget was also increased by 16% although, again how much he was directly responsible for would be a grey area. I'm a harsh judge. Further to which, if you took the time to speak to people on the left, without calling them names, or calling them diseased, you would find that they are just as unhappy with the present administration as you are.
 
We landed at Normandy when we had a militarily high probability of winning the beachhead. You might study Lend Lease a bit more as well. We didn't wait for 4 years from when Hitler invaded Poland in 1939. I am not sure where you learned or read your history, because your version is provable WRONG but again, you can't answer my questions. Just 3 things.

Why should I care if green carders can purchase firearms? They are a tool like a hammer or a chop saw and should be available to all folks who can use them responsibly. Here's where your argument fails.... by getting a green card those people WANT to come to the US.... for the above reasons. You want to come to our country.... then either live by the laws of the land or move back to your country of origin. Plenty of people have excellent reasons to come to the US. Nothing wrong with that. But don't come to take advantage of our freedoms, economy, education or general security without contributing or complain when you can't vote. Go through the process and become a US citizen, if it costs more money, sell your firearms, your economic challenges are not mine just as I would not expect you to fix my car just because it broke.

We're not perfect here in the US but most of us happen to like it here, some days more than others. If the kitchen is too hot get out. I'd rather be in the company of "the arm chair generals" who fought with valor in Vietnam, served in Adak, frickin Alaska during the Cold War you said the US invented? Ever hear of a guy named Stalin, Andropov, Kruschev? To continue, those " armchair generals" helped Reagan bankrupt the Soviet Union, and bring down the Berlin Wall.... how, why, because they were willing to serve, here, in Europe, Asia, the Near and Mid East, the Pacific, the Artic, the Anartctic and space. Some drafted, some not but after 1974, all volunteered. And yes defended the right of bubblegummers foreign and domestic to spout their particular drivel of the day. Proudly we served. Not you nor a poor, poor excuse for an executive can take that fact away. We know exactly who we are and what we have accomplished.
Any doubts about where you stand vanish to the most casual of observers by a read of your posts.
Brutus Out
 
We landed at Normandy when we had a militarily high probability of winning the beachhead. You might study Lend Lease a bit more as well. We didn't wait for 4 years from when Hitler invaded Poland in 1939. I am not sure where you learned or read your history, because your version is provable WRONG but again, you can't answer my questions. Just 3 things.

The allies landed in Normandy together not 'us'. The only singular 'we' the US achieved during WWII was to drop atomic weapons on the Japs, which I'm tremendously happy that we did, and I did answer your ridiculous question.

Why should I care if green carders can purchase firearms? They are a tool like a hammer or a chop saw and should be available to all folks who can use them responsibly. Here's where your argument fails.... by getting a green card those people WANT to come to the US.... for the above reasons. You want to come to our country.... then either live by the laws of the land or move back to your country of origin. Plenty of people have excellent reasons to come to the US. Nothing wrong with that. But don't come to take advantage of our freedoms, economy, education or general security without contributing or complain when you can't vote. Go through the process and become a US citizen, if it costs more money, sell your firearms, your economic challenges are not mine just as I would not expect you to fix my car just because it broke.

How many terrorists have you ever heard of that have actually ticked YES on the "are you a terrorist" on the immigration form. Or stand up and say "you got me, I'm a terrorist." Terrorists are really, really good at lying, so are crazy people.

We're not perfect here in the US but most of us happen to like it here, some days more than others. If the kitchen is too hot get out. I'd rather be in the company of "the arm chair generals" who fought with valor in Vietnam, served in Adak, frickin Alaska during the Cold War you said the US invented? Ever hear of a guy named Stalin, Andropov, Kruschev? To continue, those " armchair generals" helped Reagan bankrupt the Soviet Union, and bring down the Berlin Wall.... how, why, because they were willing to serve, here, in Europe, Asia, the Near and Mid East, the Pacific, the Artic, the Anartctic and space. Some drafted, some not but after 1974, all volunteered. And yes defended the right of bubblegummers foreign and domestic to spout their particular drivel of the day. Proudly we served. Not you nor a poor, poor excuse for an executive can take that fact away. We know exactly who we are and what we have accomplished.
Any doubts about where you stand vanish to the most casual of observers by a read of your posts.
Brutus Out

Unless you are an actual combat veteran keep the rest of your hoo haa to yourself. I am, I've been to those places and I don't bubblegum and whine like a little girl about it. The armchair generals that you claim will not go quietly into the night will indeed do just that, unless you purposely waited to be in the prime of your 70's, you're piss and wind. That will fall to my generation and our children just as long as we can unite them after you guys have alienated one half of the country from the other.
 
So go back to bammy camp.
All you do is complain here, and mimmick the obama shills on the real news sites. I think there are a pretty good group here at NWF, BUT every post you make is a gripe.

And Piss off with that comment, That SANE people have the audacity to complain that out GUN forums have become the home of every right-wing-kook in the country has nothing to do with Obama and everything to do with caring about or rights. Of course from your many OTHER posts, we realize you don't care about RIGHTS, you care about your own wacko-agenda where people who smoke pot are EXECUTED.

Naw, nothing statist about THAT comment, now is there?

Give it up. You're a statist thug who want's a theocracy in the USA to make it just like the '50s NEVER WAS. You're little better than Obama. Just a different FLAVOR of statist thug.
 
Typical, with zero balance in your intellectual bank account you can't answer my question on 3 things. For me, its easy....

Beat Nazi Germany who deserved it, in 1945, Beat Japan in 1945 who totally deserved it, Berlin Airlift saved hundreds of thousands from starving to death.
Kennedy: Lowered taxes as a Dem, Kept Russian Nukes out of Cuba, got the US into Space. Bad : he started to ramp up Vietnam with "advisors".

Whose supporting domestic terrorism? Nowhere did I say I support that. Who cares if someone has a bank account and doesn't live here. Switzerland is fine with that. Green cards are for education or coming to work here, or rarely for political asylum. Why should a person with a green card receive unlimited social services??? And if you seriously wonder why someone with a green card should be allowed to vote this conversation is over as there no forensic specialist that could pierce your wall of illogic. Sorry, if a person isn't a US citizen they don't have a say in our national political process, morally, ethically or legally.

Brutus Out

If you are going to present an argument it would really behoove you to get the facts straight. I would strongly suggest that you research what a green card is because you a wrong and have just lost a ton of credibility.
When it comes to taking someone's word as truth, I do until I hear them present something as truth that really is not. From that point on anything that they say and that I already do not know to be the truth, I view as suspect. It boils down to the old "if you bs me about stuff that I do know, how would I know when you are bs-ing me on stuff that I don't know".
 
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