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And to the unasked question - where does it stop? I think the media companies need to be managed separately and have some of their civil protections stripped from them, where media can print what they want, but selling bias as journalism that encroaches on reputations of others needs a lowered bar in terms of financial accountability. I think papers like the Times or WaPo should have to pay for their woke and oft perceived libelous BS.

This is a slippery slope. While i agree in principal, it is difficult for me to determine who should judge what is woke and libelous.

What i may find repugnant, you might delight in.
Or what you find woke and libelous, i might take as just another day in life.
 
This is a slippery slope. While i agree in principal, it is difficult for me to determine who should judge what is woke and libelous.

What i may find repugnant, you might delight in.
Or what you find woke and libelous, i might take as just another day in life.
Yes. Consider that some elements on the left have been calling for the same sort of censorship, but they have a very different idea of what media sources would be affected, and how.
 
This is a slippery slope. While i agree in principal, it is difficult for me to determine who should judge what is woke and libelous.

What i may find repugnant, you might delight in.
Or what you find woke and libelous, i might take as just another day in life.
That's a bit of the gamble, I think. Whether it's judge or judge-and-jury, just the sheer threat of real financial liability may be enough to temper the discourse that's been coming out of mainstream media more and more over the past couple of decades.

They still have free speech as we all do. There's just a similar bar (potentially) for being held accountable for those words. Sort of like the, "I can say what I want to my neighbor, but that doesn't mean they might not decide to try and kick my bubblegum."
 
"Despite Parler's security woes, @donk_enby was careful to counter rumors that hackers had accessed all Parler information, including the images of driver's licenses that Parler asks users to submit if they want a verified account. "Only things that were available publicly via the web were archived," @donk_enby wrote in a Twitter post. A Reddit rumor that hackers gained access to more private data on the site—due to SMS provider Twilio cutting ties with Parler and disabling its two-factor authentication—was "bull* * * *it," @donk_enby confirmed in a message to WIRED."
 
That's a bit of the gamble, I think. Whether it's judge or judge-and-jury, just the sheer threat of real financial liability may be enough to temper the discourse that's been coming out of mainstream media more and more over the past couple of decades.

They still have free speech as we all do. There's just a similar bar (potentially) for being held accountable for those words. Sort of like the, "I can say what I want to my neighbor, but that doesn't mean they might not decide to try and kick my bubblegum."
I'm wary of anything that puts any branch of the government in charge of determining what is true and what is false. Perhaps a Jury trial could work in these cases, but we'd all likely need to spend a lot more time performing jury duty.
 
I've been researching Free Speech due to my obsession with truth. Truth and Free Speech do not go hand in hand. In fact, many liberal judges on the SC have voted against punitive measures vs falsehoods in defense of free speech. I don't really like that to be honest, but I can see the reasoning. I think the spread of misinformation is one of the greatest challenges to our democracy. How can you get people to talk and agree when they are so far apart on what the truth is? Hence my obsession with it in this current political climate.
 

I never really cared for Karl, but this is a pretty damn convincing argument for why the free market does not exist on the internet, how to fix it, and why a "Internet Bill of Rights" is the best solution.
 
I'm wary of anything that puts any branch of the government in charge of determining what is true and what is false. Perhaps a Jury trial could work in these cases, but we'd all likely need to spend a lot more time performing jury duty.
That's why I advocated for civil penalties. Criminal, I think, protections absolutely stay in place as the 1st. I'm focused on the financial. That's really the part that makes media companies pay attention. Judge and jury ruling on monetary punishment, not incarceration or the like.
 
I've been researching Free Speech due to my obsession with truth. Truth and Free Speech do not go hand in hand. In fact, many liberal judges on the SC have voted against punitive measures vs falsehoods in defense of free speech. I don't really like that to be honest, but I can see the reasoning. I think the spread of misinformation is one of the greatest challenges to our democracy. How can you get people to talk and agree when they are so far apart on what the truth is? Hence my obsession with it in this current political climate.
I have also been pondering and studying this; It's a conundrum to be sure. We have some vastly different perceptions of reality that we seem to be living in in our society, and those are mostly dictated by two (actually many many more than two, but two are dominant) viewpoints being expressed to us through our media. And it's caught in a feedback loop: Media source finds a viewpoint that sells to a certain group of consumers --> that group of consumers becomes more entrenched in that viewpoint --> media pushes even further toward that view to continue capturing their consumers --> loop.

This takes place with both the largest news consuming demographics, mostly defined as "left" and "right." Both groups think the other is being fed lies while they are receiving truths. In addition, all the smaller viewpoints sit somewhere on that spectrum, depending on their business model or agenda.

How do you find a solution that works for everybody? I have no idea.
 
I have also been pondering and studying this; It's a conundrum to be sure. We have some vastly different perceptions of reality that we seem to be living in in our society, and those are mostly dictated by two (actually many many more than two, but two are dominant) viewpoints being expressed to us through our media. And it's caught in a feedback loop: Media source finds a viewpoint that sells to a certain group of consumers --> that group of consumers becomes more entrenched in that viewpoint --> media pushes even further toward that view to continue capturing their consumers --> loop.

This takes place with both the largest news consuming demographics, mostly defined as "left" and "right." Both groups think the other is being fed lies while they are receiving truths. In addition, all the smaller viewpoints sit somewhere on that spectrum, depending on their business model or agenda.

How do you find a solution that works for everybody? I have no idea.
Agree with all above.

But now add in - One "side's" media and communication/comfort zone is literally being striped from them. Half the nation is feeling true oppression by the other half merely for exercising their 1st amendment rights.

If the 1st can be infringed, what's to stop there?

Especially on a web site that exercises our 1st amendment rights to show support and respect we all share for the 2nd amendment?
 
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I'd be okay if... media sites, just as people.. are held accountable and responsible for the content and speech they provide.. including the relative censorship/choosing what to post publicly and what to remove..... and are held responsible for the things they say/post.

This is a proven system, it is something recognized by the SCOTUS. None of that " we are not responsible, cannot be held accountable for whatever we say/post/allow to be posted" :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
Two competing Americas.

One side was established early on, used money that ALL paid into from taxes, government work, foundations and now this early adopter side that has become the near monopoly has taken this network and put their chokehold on it.

How does a separate (and free) America exist within this? Is it feasible to run your own network lines? No. You won't have the tax help or the government help that was there in the start.

Because of this, the internet is not free. It is restricted by those holding the servers you pay for, those maintaining the line to your home, to the cell tower. The illusion is complete. The 1st amendment has never been on the internet.
 
I'd be okay if... media sites, just as people.. are held accountable and responsible for the content and speech they provide.. including the relative censorship/choosing what to post publicly and what to remove..... and are held responsible for the things they say/post.

This is a proven system, it is something recognized by the SCOTUS. None of that " we are not responsible, cannot be held accountable for whatever we say/post/allow to be posted" :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Great :(

Now I gotta go pull that paintball/lighter fluid idea quick... :eek:
 
Agree with all above.

But now add in - One 'side's" media and communication/comfort zone is literally being striped from them. Half the nation is feeling true oppression by the other half merely for exercising their 1st amendment rights.

If the 1st can be infringed, what's to stop there?
If the government was doing the stripping of rights, I would be much more concerned. Private companies follow a profit model, and just like Newsmax and MSNBC, they will push whatever viewpoint and agenda pays them. The majority of the free market is rejecting MAGA, and I don't blame them. MAGA is not a great PR look for broad market appeal at this point.

It is our right as American citizens to say whatever we want to say in a public area. In a private area, wwe do not have that right; we can express ourselves only as as long as the owners allow us to. Right now, the internet is not a public area. Perhaps it should be. My experience from truly unmoderated places on the internet is that most people don't like to be there, and they rapidly turn into a bubble.
 
How can you get people to talk and agree when they are so far apart on what the truth is?
If you want truth go to a philosophy forum.

News should report the facts, and not spin them. Editorials are opinion and should be clearly labelled as such. This is the most egregious issue with the likes of CNN; they masquerade opinion as fact.
 
Hahahaha. Ideas are protected
You think...

bigbrother.jpeg
 
The majority of the free market
In media, that is not so. The majority of media is owned by a select few super corporations, and has always been on one particular side, against the rest. If there were actual free market, we would have two vastly different groups of media companies and the Associated Press would not be solely in the pockets of certain companies :rolleyes:
Legally, according to SCOTUS rulings :rolleyes:
 
How do you find a solution that works for everybody?

IMHO....
By understanding and respecting......
That everyone has a right to state their positions.

Good or Bad/Right or Wrong.....it's left to you. Rrrrright. It's "Up to You" to make decisions.

:s0001:OMG.....he's advocating for a violent overthrow of the overseers.

Really?:s0092:

Aloha, Mark

PS....Note: that the quoted material.....is not meant to address anyone in particular. The post is just my comment.
 
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