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Overseas Contacts?

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by Drame22, May 17, 2013.

  1. Drame22

    Drame22 Portland, OR Member

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    Hello all,

    I was just wondering how FFL dealers get their contacts overseas. I'm in the process of getting my Class 3 FFL for C&R, and frankly I'm getting tired of gun shops upping the Mosin-Nagant prices a few dollars every week or two.

    So without leaving the nation, how do I find an overseas contact who's willing to sell me milsurp rifles? I read how two stoners in Florida managed to create an entire international business using only a laptop in their living room. I'm not wanting to go quite that far, I'm more looking to simply add to my collection from the source rather than have to pay these ridiculous fees($240 for a single Mosin? Yea right).

    Specifically I'm wondering how these kids got these contacts online. Do you have to contact the armory directly? Where's a good place to go for news about this kind of stuff?

    Cheers,
    Drame22
     
  2. samuelm16

    samuelm16 se pdx Well-Known Member

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    ive always wanted a m44 but im wary of the cheap ammo drying up sooner than later i mean how many crates can there be left?
     
  3. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    Are you also getting your import/export license? If not you still have to use one of them to move your goods..........

    How exactly do you get a "Class 3" with a C&R? The only way I know to get an SOT (what you need to deal in NFA items) is to have an 01 FFL.

    If you mean you are trying to buy C&R eligible NFA items as an individual that is also ok but you still can not import them.

    Last I am confused about your "Class 3" then talking about buying bolt action guns.

    Here is a good spot to start reading, Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - National Firearms Act (NFA) - Firearms | ATF
     
  4. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    Well it is the longest round serving in military history being in service since 1891. That means today is has had 123 years of service and still being used and made...............

    Price may change but "drying up" like 8mm did and even bulk .30-06 slowing down wont happen any time soon.
     
  5. Drame22

    Drame22 Portland, OR Member

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    How do I get an import/export? Even if it's extra work it's worth it to snub these freakin' gun stores. Who knows, maybe I'll set up my OWN gun store and sell guns at reasonable prices. My concern is more about keeping guns and ammo cheap and plentiful rather than shooting for highest profit margin because people are still willing to pay it.


    I don't know how many crates are left sam, but I do know that gun shops are gobbling them up, then marking them up 100% or more. Bud's just did that. Took their Mosins out of stock for a few days, brought them back and jacked up the price another $40, to a total of $180, a ridiculous price for a Mosin. Sometimes I wish I was president for just a day. A few hours and several hundred black vans later, all the scalpers would have mysteriously disappeared, relocated to a remote island where they can scalp each other all they like.


    Class 3 is for Curios & Relics. The requirements are that it fits into one of three categories. Either it's over 50 years old(not including replicas), certified of historical interest, or most of the gun's value stems from the fact that it is a historical piece. Since I'm only purchasing Mosin 91/30's and Type 53 carbines, I feel they fall into both the 1st and 3rd category. Probably the 2nd too.

    Is it possible to work with an importing company, or is that considered 'strawman' purchases? I don't want to break the law, but I do want to get this done quickly and efficiently(unlikely with our government, but hey, a man can dream) so I can start adding to my collection again. It's been months since I've bought a Mosin because of the gun panic prices.

    Sorry all, lot of pent up anger, but now my ranting is over!

    Should I be contacting the BATF for import/export, or is it a seperate branch? It is possible to just get an import?

    Cheers,
    Drame22
     
  6. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    So many things wrong there but ok.

    Class 3 has NOTHING to do with C&R, read the link I posted before. It deals with NFA items. There are some NFA items that are C&R eligible. I am very well aware what a C&R license is as I have one. I also own several NFA items.

    As for "strawman" I think you have a total misunderstanding on that one as well since what you are proposing has NOTHING to do with that.

    So to be an importer you have to basically have a business, tax ID, probably a fixed business location as well (but not sure about that). Then on top of that you have pay all the ATF fee's. So basically you are looking at thousands of $$$ and probably over a year to get it all taken care of to save a few $$ on a couple rifles............ So say a MN cost you $100 and you are only going to mark it up 10% because you are such a good guy. That is $10/ gun. Lets just say you only spent $10,000 to get set up you would have to sell 1000 rifles just to break even. That is basically selling 3 a day and that takes time. I assume you have a regular job so that is going to cut into that time. Each year to keep up your licenses and fee's you will probably have to sell at least 200 rifles. Of course you have to collect taxes and spend time dealing with all that as well.

    Here are a couple more links for you;

    Firearms - Guides - Importation & Verification of Firearms, Ammunition and Implements of War - Types of Importers | ATF

    Firearms - How To - Import Firearms, Ammunition, and Implements of War | ATF

    Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Importing & Exporting | ATF

    The ATF has all the information.
     
  7. Gaucho Gringo

    Gaucho Gringo Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    Check with the various C&R dealers. A Mosin 91\30 can still be bought for less than $130.00.
     
  8. Drame22

    Drame22 Portland, OR Member

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    Man, and here I was thinking 'Well the can't have THAT many fees just to import things....', but as usual, the American government astounds me with it's pointlessly complex system of laws, by-laws, fees, transfers, etc etc etc etc etc. No wonder people don't like working with the government.


    And yes, I would be a 'good guy'. In fact, I believe it should be written into law that businesses cannot charge more than 110% of what they paid to make or purchase the product they're selling.


    Well that scraps my plans for revenge then. Would just having a C&R license allow them to ship Mosins directly to me? At the very least I want to eliminate FFL transfer fees. $25 for the first and $15 for every one after that is a ridiculous price just to sign some papers.
     
  9. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    It appears you do not know much about business. First off 110% means an item that you bought for $100 would sell for $210. So I am assuming that you mean 10% mark up. You do know that is not enough to operate a business right? Most businesses have to have an average of 20-30% mark up JUST to break even. They have lots of expenses to pay for, lights, wages, insurance, rent, ect. If you cant pay for all these things there is no business.

    Next, do we really need the government in our lives more? In the first paragraph you complain about the government then in the second you want them to do something. Make up your mind, you can not have both. Myself and most others here prefer less. Also if you did that there would be no free market but that is a whole different issue. If you don't like the price of something don't buy it............

    Yes with a C&R you can have guns that fall under the license shipped directly to you. That is the whole point of the license. Well if you think the feels that your FFL charges are ridiculous find another one or get your own FFL and find out exactly what it costs to operate your business.
     
  10. TonsOfOregonBrass

    TonsOfOregonBrass Sandy, OR Active Member

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    If you really want to be a "nice guy" you should only mark the guns up "a dallah over cost". You will become a millionaire through volume.
     
  11. porkchopexpress

    porkchopexpress Tualatin, Oregon Active Member

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    I don't know about gun dealers but I work for an HVAC company and there is no way we could survive on a 10% markup. That barely covers our insurance and rent. Not to mention vehicle maintenance, healthcare and other benefits, office staff.. I don't think most people grasp how much money overhead takes up. They think just because you bought an item at $10.00 you should be able to sell it at $11.00 and make a profit. It just isn't possible.

    I am always curious what gun stores pay for their firearms and what their actual mark up is.
     
  12. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    The icing on the cake... none of you have mentioned the costs of business licenses, and taxes... like on top of any local (city of Portland, Metro, County) State, and Federal taxes, you'd have to pay social security taxes on anything over the first $400 per year that equates to 14% as you'd be self-employed... most people don't know that their employers have to match (from their pockets) what is withheld in Social Security from their employees' paychecks... then don't forget about annual inventory taxes.

    Has anyone other than myself ever come to the conclusion that the cause for price inflation is government activities/policies and NOT "corporate greed"?
     
    Nwcid and (deleted member) like this.
  13. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    Generally guns themselves have very little mark up, I would say 5-10%. This is the case with most "big ticket" items. Say you have a $1000 item and mark it up 35% (what is considered average mark up) that is $350 on that one sale but that is a big jump in $$$.

    Where most places make their money is on the small sells. As I said before a store needs about an AVERAGE mark up of about 35% to be successful. Since you are only marking up guns 5-10% you have to mark other items up higher. I once bought some stuff from box electronics store though a friend that was a manager. Big item was $500 retail and I paid just over $400 (so about 10$ mark up). I bought another item that was about $100 retail and paid about $50 (about 50% mark up). The one that really got me was the small items. A 4 pack of rechargeable batteries retailed for $8.99, I paid $1.88 (mark up of 378%). There were a couple other items that were in that same price range but that one sticks in my mind.

    Ever wonder why stores try to get you to buy batteries, cables and other odds and ends when you are at the check out? Well those "small" items are usually marked up 200-500%.