National BATFE at registration ploy again?

[Caveman Jim]

CALL TO ACTION!!!!!
Let's get busy folks, our rights are never safe anymore and we need to step up when the time comes. Share this information with all your friends and family to get the word out.

 

[2A2Dend]

DONE

Thanks for bringing this our attention.

 

[EHJ]

ATF illegally copying 4473 forms
* ATF using digital scanners. "ATF has been copying FFL Bound Books for years — with or without FFL permission. During annual compliance inspections in other states, FFL dealers have reported that ATF industry operations investigators (IOI) brought in digital cameras and photographed the entire dealer 'Bound Book' without permission of the FFL holder. Other dealers reported investigators brought in digital scanners and scanned portions of the Bound Book — line by line. Of course, the Bound Book contains the dealer's full record of lawful firearm sales transaction records."

 

[cookie]

Your politicians and unionized government employees are a crime gang.

 

[2A2Dend]

Your politicians and unionized government employees are a crime gang.

Unfortunately, it's a trait people are finally seeing, that's emerging all over the country.
Problem is, it's a huge snowballing affect in their tactics. The Bastiches!!!

 

[CBT]

RED ALERT! ATF Sneaking in a NATIONAL REGISTRATION! - DC Dirty Laundry

Listen up! The ATF is trying to change the 4473 form (FFL Firearms Transfer Record that you fill out when you buy a new firearm) and they are going to sneak in a National Registry at the same time. The STATED purpose of the change is to provide science deniers a spot under gender to […]

dcdirtylaundry.com

Can anyone tell me how they can get away with this?

 

[cookie]

RED ALERT! ATF Sneaking in a NATIONAL REGISTRATION! - DC Dirty Laundry

Listen up! The ATF is trying to change the 4473 form (FFL Firearms Transfer Record that you fill out when you buy a new firearm) and they are going to sneak in a National Registry at the same time. The STATED purpose of the change is to provide science deniers a spot under gender to […]

dcdirtylaundry.com

Can anyone tell me how they can get away with this?

Unionized government employees are a crime gang.

 

[awshoot]

About 3 years ago, GQ (the magazine) put out a biased video on gun traces in which it is revealed that the records from shops that go out of business are digitized and stored as TIFF files:

Just this summer, The Atlantic repurposed much of that older raw tape, including some not shown before, to make it's own propaganda. In this version the boss dude couldn't remember if the files were saved as JPEG or something else (it's the same interview as the GQ version so it seems GQ only used the part of the interview where he got the right filetype):

JPEG, TIFF, Whatever: In 2012, four years BEFORE the GQ video was published, an OCR (optical character recognition) software company published this video showing how easy it is to turn ANY image files into searchable text, in the background, en masse:

I actually use the desktop version of ABBYY's software and it is remarkably good at turning handwriting into computer searchable text, and extremely good at turning printed text into digital text.

Now, I have zero evidence the ATF is OCRing it's digitized records and I am not suggesting that they are, but I also recognize that the day the law changes, or the day someone stops caring what the law says, they are nothing but a software package plus a server room away from having a registry built out of the records from all the dealers who went out of business. If it is a legal change that sparks this, all the in business dealers will also be required to do a data dump.

 

[EHJ]

Apparently they've been doing it for years...
And now with the 'new' form 4473 - they place page 3 detailed info on page 1 now - to make it easier...?

Background Checks, Registration & Confiscation | GOA

Background Checks, Registration & Confiscation “Confiscation could be an option.” — Gov. Andrew Cuomo (New York Times, 1/09/13) 1. ATF illegally copying 4473 forms * ATF using digital scanners. “ATF has been copying FFL Bound Books for years — with or without FFL permission. During annual...

gunowners.org

 

[EHJ]

 

[awshoot]

... or the day someone stops caring what the law says ...

Apparently they've been doing it for years...
And now with the 'new' form 4473 - they place page 3 detailed info on page 1 now - to make it easier...?

Well, what do you know? They're ahead of the game for the day when they decide to search those TIFF files.

ATF using digital scanners. "ATF has been copying FFL Bound Books for years — with or without FFL permission. During annual compliance inspections in other states, FFL dealers have reported that ATF industry operations investigators (IOI) brought in digital cameras and photographed the entire dealer 'Bound Book' without permission of the FFL holder. Other dealers reported investigators brought in digital scanners and scanned portions of the Bound Book — line by line. Of course, the Bound Book contains the dealer's full record of lawful firearm sales transaction records."

 

[E4mafia]

Well, what do you know? They're ahead of the game for the day when they decide to search those TIFF files.

And my suspected fears are all but confirmed with this thread.

Thank you @awshoot

Always told people who say there is no registry, "well what do you think a 4473 is?, only has your name/location/SSN (if you provide) and make/model/caliber and firearm type listed in it". Now I wonder how long before we have another one of those yearly data breaches where everyone's private info is then leaked.

 

[E4mafia]

Thanks to @EHJ for the article from GOA.

BONUS POINTS: how safe is our CHL application? it only serves one obvious intent after all and very likely is on a digital record somewhere since we do live in the digital age.

 

[awshoot]

Interesting that ATF agents are using phones to take pictures of documents at dealer's place of business:

(I am not saying ATF uses that software, just showing that such software is available)

 

[SUPER X]

And my suspected fears are all but confirmed with this thread.

Thank you @awshoot

Always told people who say there is no registry, "well what do you think a 4473 is?, only has your name/location/SSN (if you provide) and make/model/caliber and firearm type listed in it". Now I wonder how long before we have another one of those yearly data breaches where everyone's private info is then leaked.

And serial no. Of firearm

 

[Greenbug]

They were always intending to keep the records for future use, no question there.

The reason they are moving the gun information to the first page is because of the first question on the form....
"Are you the actual purchaser/transferee of the firearms listed on this form?"

Typically the firearm information is not filled in on page three before the purchaser fills out section A of the form. One could argue that since there were no firearms listed on the form when you signed it, you purchased nothing? Sneaky lawyers!

I guess one could argue that you never really purchased any guns, that is, if they weren't listed on the form before you signed it...

 

[awshoot]

...
Typically the firearm information is not filled in on page three before the purchaser fills out section A of the form. One could argue that since there were no firearms listed on the form when you signed it, you purchased nothing? Sneaky lawyers!
...

Current form: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4...n-record-over-counter-atf-form-53009/download
proposed form: f_4473_5300._9_pt._1_revision_09-18-2019_with_watermark.pdf

Maybe it is some leaglistic thing but I suspect it is a change to make searches easier. The new form puts the name of the purchaser and firearm on the same page, so if you are doing a manual search, you now look at one page rather than two pages to connect the dots. In one of those videos above at the ATF tracing center, the boss guy says that if you can shave a few seconds off a task you do millions of times, it's a big deal.

To a computer, where the text doesn't matter so I don't think moving the data around is helpful in that respect (and because now there are more versions, it actually makes the programming a very slight amount more difficult because you have to deal with yet another set of coordinates).

One way they could get a large boost in productivity (so let's hope they don't do it) is to reduce the filled in part to two pages. That would knock down the scanning time by 1/6th (there are three pages of boilerplate right now) and reduce the number of pages to be manually searched by 1/6th. It wouldn't matter to a computer of course.

 

[awshoot]

...
Can anyone tell me how they can get away with this?

Explain how Andrew McCabe could commit perjury to a Federal Court about the Steele dossier and face no legal consequences, not even an admonishment from whatever bar association he belongs to. Explain how Rosie O'Donnell could do what Dinesh D'Souza did, but nothing happened to her and Dinesh went to jail.

At some level, the law is irrelevant and all that matters is power.

I heard a commentator once on the radio explain the difference between "rule of law" and "rule by law" -- I wish I could remember who for a citation. Anyway, the rule of law is the ideal our Constitution sought to create, where all people were subject to the same rules equally. Rule by law is more what we have become, where some people are controlled or oppressed by the imposition of the law on them by those with power -- being ruled by law makes one subject to loss of life, liberty, and/or property on the whim of those with power. This is where we see that one group is allowed to X, but other groups get hammered for the exact same thing. And in this rule by law system, there exists a level that is beyond all laws at all. Think Hillary.

 

[CBT]

Ok, I get it. See it every day. One set of rules for some and another for the rest of us but I would think some of the lawyers on the side of the 2nd would have issue. They do have the 1986 Firearms Protection Act on their side. I'm not a fan of the Act, by any sense of the word, but it does seem to have a section in it that addresses this:
Federal Law 18 U.S.C. 926 <18 U.S. Code § 926 - Rules and regulations