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Oseltamivir

Discussion in 'Preparedness & Survival' started by 9mmguy, Feb 21, 2013.

  1. 9mmguy

    9mmguy Portland, OR Member

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    Forgive me if this question has been asked before, but is there a legal way to obtain antiviral drugs oseltamivir (Tamiflu) for pandemic preparedness? Has anyone been successful just asking their doctor for SHTF Tamiflu?
     
  2. knuckle Head

    knuckle Head southeast Well-Known Member

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  3. bolus

    bolus Portland Gold Supporter Gold Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    Back when the first SARS was going to kill us several years back I had a patient want a year's worth of tamiflu and cipro for himself for the season. Yeah, I could not really agree with that plan

    There are problems with stocking up on Tamiflu. First, you have to take it within the first few days of a flu to be effective. With all the viruses that go around during the season, how are you sure you arent going to waste it on a cold because you started too early or didnt know it wasnt a flu? So you may think you should get a bunch of doses then. But at a $120 a treatment that your insurance isnt going to pay for, how many are you going to get?

    The next problem is that tamiflu doesnt treat the secondary pneumonia's that are more often the killers. So do you stock up on antibiotics as well? when do you take them? With all the multidrug resistance bacteria going around, which antibiotic should you stock up on? Multiple different types? It becomes real complicated and real expensive and potentially dangerous really quick

    The better approach if a pandemic breaks out is to stay at home. Better to spend the money on supplies to live in your house for a few weeks than stock up on medications that may be wasted or cause side effects.
     
  4. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    As bolus said... pneumonia is the main complication of flu. One thing you can do is get a pneumonia vaccine:

    Vaccines: VPD-VAC/Pneumo/main page

    I got mine a few years ago, was kinda pricy and took a bit of convincing for the doc to give it to me, I ended up lighting up a smoke in the office and he was like "ok fine, put that thing out".

    As a combination of factors... the fact that I'm self employed, don't go out much, and don't have children, all of the major flu outbreaks we've had over the last few years including swine, etc I havn't gotten sick, even without getting a flu vaccine. If you do have kids, maintaining good hygiene around the house (handwashing) and if someone is actually sick, staying away are good ways to maintain your health in the face of flu outbreaks.

    Also, cipro while being a great drug to treat certain systemic infections, with all the jerks out there who are hoarding it, or taking it when it's not needed will quickly result in drug resistance in many bacteria greatly reducing it's utility. I think they're already working on 4th generation quinolones as a result:

    CDC - Quinolones and the Clinical Laboratory - HAI
     
  5. 9mmguy

    9mmguy Portland, OR Member

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    Thanks, the three of you, this is excellent input! I understand the main protection is being able to remain isolated for several weeks. I am stocking some antibiotics (true, I am no medical expert, but if someone was really sick, they could still be a lifesaver), and I will look into pneumonia vaccination. I was just hoping to keep some Tamiflu around for the worst case scenario.
     
  6. 308

    308 ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Platinum Supporter Silver Supporter

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    Interesting thread.
    I honestly never get sick, however, this year has been different. I've had a nasty cold type symptoms that have come and go for close to two months now. Last week it kept me down all week with body pain, chills, headache and worst of all, some sort of eye type infection that makes me look like I smoked a bag of weed. feels like I have sand in my eyes and very uncomfortable. It's odd how it comes and goes.

    My wife works at Providence and had a flu shot. She has had none of the symptoms I have, so perhaps I should start getting flu shots. I've always been reluctant to do so.
     
  7. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    You should only use an anti-biotic of there is actually a sign of infection. If someone has a nasty puss oozing cut with streaks moving up the rest of the tissue... yea clear case for ABX, however "flu like" symptoms are no time to bust out the ABX. You are better off treating with NSAIDs (advil, tylenol, etc) to control fever, high fever can result in seizures and brain damage, and body aches.

    The drugs I stockpile and encourage everyone to follow suit are:

    * Advil (Ibuprofen) - use as a fever reducer, swelling reducer, head and body aches
    * Asprin - Heart attack, people who are allergic to ibuprofen or have other sensitivity to it.
    * Loperamide (immodium, others) - for treating diarrhea
    * Diphenhydramine (benadryl) - allergic reaction

    Without a lot of training, you can save a lot of lives, and make your life better with all of these drugs. Plus, the generic versions of these drugs can be purchased for pennies per pill ($5 buys 200 ibuprofen tabs at walmart). Other than overdosing, you can't do a lot of damage with these drugs.

    If you are looking for some other stuff to add:

    * Loratadine - (claratin) non-drowsy antihistamine
    * Dextromethorphan - (DXM) commonly found in OTC cough suppressants, can also be used as a sedative/hypnotic for people who are really in bad shape.
    * Guaifenesin - (found in mucinex) broad spectrum expectorant, loosens mucus and makes coughing more productive
    * Pseudoephedrine - opening nasal passages and improved breathing, works best when taken with guaifenesin. It's OTC, but still controlled (might have to check I think oregon banned it), the replacement phenylephedrine is barely effective.
    * Oral Glucose - Tablets or paste (for those who have diabetic loved ones).
    * Triple Anti-biotic ointment - can never have enough!
    * Muscle rub - contains menthol and camphor oils, you can also rub on chest to help with congestion.

    There are tons of other OTC drugs that are useful, these are the ones I've found most useful and keep a stock of them on hand. I highly recommend doing some more research on what is available OTC before trying to line up controlled drugs you don't know how to use.
     
  8. Modeler

    Modeler Molalla, Oregon Soccer Fan

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    You know that they're talking about Tamiflu, right? You know that it's an anti-viral and isn't an antibiotic, right? You know that Tamiflu is marketed specifically for treating the flu, right?
     
  9. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    Re-read bolus' post... that pretty much says it all about tamiflu and why I don't think it's worth even having. The topic is broader now...
     
  10. 9mmguy

    9mmguy Portland, OR Member

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    Your input is much appreciated, AMProducts and everyone.

    Here is another question for those who know a bit about antibiotics: I often hear warnings against using antibiotics in cases where there is no infection, without a doctor's advice, etc. So what are the risks of taking antibiotics without an actual infection? I understand that every time I take an antibiotic there is a risk the same antibiotic won't work again when I may need it in the future. But in a really bad scenario, say a pandemic without professional help anywhere in sight, wouldn't I want to err on the "take 'em" side?
     
  11. chowser2

    chowser2 seaside Member

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    Allergic reaction and die, or causing one in somebody else that you are trying to treat. You would not believe the number of people I see that have a sulfa allergy or pen vk allergy.

    Could cause diarrhea which in some cases could be deadly if you don't have enough clean water to stay hydrated.

    Cipro and those in its class could cause tendon rupture.(rare but it happens)

    Some antibiotics increase some effects of other drugs, like blood thinners.
    Some make birth control not work well.(if it was a long term shtf and you had to bug out with a pregnant lady throwing up every few hours that would not go well) sex is probably the last on your mind at this point but just saying.

    People should not mess with drug if they are not trained. It can be dangerous.


    People think o I have this book that tells me what to do. If it was that easy those people responsible for writing those prescriptions and dispensing them would not need a doctorate and 9+ years of schools.
     
    AMProducts and (deleted member) like this.
  12. chowser2

    chowser2 seaside Member

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    Tamiflu on average if you take it starting the first 1-2 days of the flu only makes you better 1-3 days faster.



    So yes you could try to have it on hand in case of a pandemic, and that medicine won't really cause too many problems. But I doubt a doctor will write you an rx for it in case of a pandemic. Some will but most doctors won't.