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Oregon - Where not to Carry - Concealed Carry - CHP Holders

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by RicInOR, Mar 17, 2015.

  1. RicInOR

    RicInOR Washington County Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    From Pat Garrett, Sheriff Washington County
    http://www.co.washington.or.us/sheriff/

    My question is on the last entry below ->



    Where Not To Carry Your Firearm
    Quick Refresher for Those Who Carry Concealed


    ab6e2b6a-9b59-4574-8bd0-99ab75c337ec.jpg
    Oregon law provides very few limits on where a person with a Concealed Handgun License (CHL) can carry a firearm, and federal laws contain a few more prohibitions.
    Even if you have a Concealed Handgun License, you cannot carry a firearm on any of the following properties:


    - Federal buildings

    - Court facilities

    - Indian lands unless by tribal permission; this may also apply to certain casinos on Indian lands

    - Secure areas of airports

    - Social Security offices

    - Posted private property where the owner prohibits firearms


    For more information, read ORS 166.370.




    What I understood was that if you are on Private property and asked to leave that you must. And if you are carrying legally and refuse to leave, that is a very serious trespass charge which might cause you to loose your gun rights. I had not heard about this "Posted" before. Also, posted does not appear in 166.370 - but I get that it might appear in some court ruling.

    Does anyone know this for certain, so I don't have to spend the $$ with my lawyer?

    Thanks,
     
  2. ZigZagZeke

    ZigZagZeke Eugene Silver Supporter Silver Supporter 2015 Volunteer

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    IANAL, however, "Posted private property where the owner prohibits firearms" is incorrect. Those signs do not have the force of law. They must first determine that you are carrying, then ask you to leave. If you don't leave you are then trespassing and may be arrested.
     
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  3. solv3nt

    solv3nt Portland Well-Known Member

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    164.205 Definitions for ORS 164.205 to 164.270. As used in ORS 164.205 to 164.270, except as the context requires otherwise:

    (1) “Building,” in addition to its ordinary meaning, includes any booth, vehicle, boat, aircraft or other structure adapted for overnight accommodation of persons or for carrying on business therein. Where a building consists of separate units, including, but not limited to, separate apartments, offices or rented rooms, each unit is, in addition to being a part of such building, a separate building.

    (2) “Dwelling” means a building which regularly or intermittently is occupied by a person lodging therein at night, whether or not a person is actually present.

    (3) “Enter or remain unlawfully” means:

    (a) To enter or remain in or upon premises when the premises, at the time of such entry or remaining, are not open to the public or when the entrant is not otherwise licensed or privileged to do so;

    (b) To fail to leave premises that are open to the public after being lawfully directed to do so by the person in charge;

    (c) To enter premises that are open to the public after being lawfully directed not to enter the premises; or

    (d) To enter or remain in a motor vehicle when the entrant is not authorized to do so.


    (4) “Open to the public” means premises which by their physical nature, function, custom, usage, notice or lack thereof or other circumstances at the time would cause a reasonable person to believe that no permission to enter or remain is required.

    (5) “Person in charge” means a person, a representative or employee of the person who has lawful control of premises by ownership, tenancy, official position or other legal relationship. “Person in charge” includes, but is not limited to the person, or holder of a position, designated as the person or position-holder in charge by the Governor, board, commission or governing body of any political subdivision of this state.

    (6) “Premises” includes any building and any real property, whether privately or publicly owned. [1971 c.743 §135; 1983 c.740 §33; 1999 c.1040 §10; 2003 c.444 §1]

    https://www.oregonlegislature.gov/bills_laws/lawsstatutes/2013ors164.html

    Oregon law doesn't define whether or not "lawfully directed" applies to signs. Since it doesn't say that signs hold the letter of the law, I think that a prosecutor would have a hard time convicting you of trespassing with a firearm because the property owner had a sign.
     
    Ed Guinn likes this.
  4. Hawaiian

    Hawaiian Tigard Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Respect is a two way street. If I owned a bar and had a no firearms sign posted, I would hope that my customers would respect my right as a private property owner to set rules for when you visit my establishment. Just as I would respect your right to drink elsewhere.

    This is no different from visiting my home. If you are stopping by for coffee, you are welcome to carry. If you are stopping by to have a few beers or throw back a few shots, then I would ask that you leave your firearm at home or in your vehicle. If you don't agree with my rules, then you shouldn't stop by.
     
    NoFlinch likes this.
  5. jjackffrost

    jjackffrost central oregon Active Member

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    God knows the state of Oregon don't respect private property rights why should anyone else. (sarcasm)
     
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  6. Norm0931

    Norm0931 Hillsboro, OR Sgt. Sheep Silver Vendor 2016 Volunteer

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    it's "Posted Private Property" not "private property with a sign against guns posted." Basically, if you don't know you are on private property (say a parking lot) and there are no signs, its unreasonable for you to know you can't carry there. If the owner informs you it's private property AND you can't carry then you are required to leave or you can be charged with trespass with a deadly weapon. He added that part in mostly for Intel and Nike because they have huge sections of land that people tend to walk around without permission.
     
  7. PiratePast40

    PiratePast40 Willamette Valley Well-Known Member

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    I agree that people have every right to determine what others do in their own home, and we should respect that. But a side issue was just brought up, and that is about carrying when drinking. Many states have a prohibition against carrying in a bar, or even when in a restaurant that has a bar. In those states, there seems to be a consensus that anyone who lets alcohol touch their lips while carrying, immediately turns into a stark raving maniac and shoots everyone in sight. Yes, that's an exaggeration, but the point is that there is no problem in bars in Oregon, where no such prohibition exists. We need to be careful when we make assumptions about the imagined behavior of others. We have Ceasefire and others doing that with us, and we know what the reality is.
     
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  8. CWOUSCG

    CWOUSCG Member

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    I agree with you on your own home however.........

    What is the difference with guns in a business? If you decide you don't want dogs you cannot ban guide dogs, if you don't like someone of a different race you cannot ban them from your bar, why do you feel you have the right to ban guns?
    You opened your business with a license from the city and agreed to operate it in accordance with the laws, CC and/or OC are legal so why do you not feel obligated to follow the law? After all it was we, your fellow citizens, who gave you permission to operate your bar in our town.
     
  9. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    Yeah, good point. Try to exclude gays from your establishment, too... watch what happens to your business.
     
  10. Koda

    Koda Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    here is the WCSO newsletter the OP is referring to. Scroll down to see where not to carry: http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs131/1114870388019/archive/1120292111089.html
    FWIW this is a good newsletter to subscribe to if your a Wa. Co. resident, occasionally they have CHL topics now and then too. Despite my praise the letter is incorrect where signs do not carry the force of the law.


    My thoughts...

    Homes vs buisnesses... big difference. If I'm entering your home its because of a personal invite and I will respect your home as I will also respect our friendship and your home is not open to the public. If I enter your business its not because I was invited its because its open to the public at large and I have business to conduct and so I will follow the public law, you must ask me to leave (if you even know and you never will).

    Bars and alcohol. If you don’t drink when your carrying I highly highly respect that but please for the love of god lets not tie our own hands with more gun free zone laws. Those states that have enacted such laws have NOT reduced gun violence in bars so please don’t assume someone whose lawfully carrying and lawfully having a drink is suddenly going to go berserk. Its not the gun or the booze its the fact that they already have criminal intentions and any law is irrelevant to them at that point. Gun free zones do not work, anywhere.
     
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  11. RicInOR

    RicInOR Washington County Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Hmmm, I wondered about that. Now, how do you know the owner prohibits firearms?
     
  12. Norm0931

    Norm0931 Hillsboro, OR Sgt. Sheep Silver Vendor 2016 Volunteer

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    Homosexuality is specifically protected by both state and federal law. Gun Owners are not a protected group as we see everyday.
     
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  13. CWOUSCG

    CWOUSCG Member

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    I disagree. Gun ownership is in the COTUS which qualifies as law, SCOTUS has further ruled that Keep and Bear is protected.

    I know they also said there are limits however they were talking about Government not individuals being able to limit RTKBA. There is no precedent for individuals being able to supersede law AFAIK.
     
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  14. Norm0931

    Norm0931 Hillsboro, OR Sgt. Sheep Silver Vendor 2016 Volunteer

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    Gun "Ownership" not Gun "Owners." Big difference in the eyes of the law.
     
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  15. CWOUSCG

    CWOUSCG Member

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    Umm, no.
     
  16. Norm0931

    Norm0931 Hillsboro, OR Sgt. Sheep Silver Vendor 2016 Volunteer

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  17. CWOUSCG

    CWOUSCG Member

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    ...the right of the people....

    Have a nice day.
     
  18. Deebow

    Deebow Portland Well-Known Member

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    This is why I only open carry on the range. And why I think open carry is a dumb idea.

    It is also why I carry/dress/cover myself when carrying my concealed firearm so that people don't know. If anyone discovers that I am carrying my gun, they have done so because they have done one (or more) of these two things:

    1) Undressed me
    2) Attempted unsuccessfully to illegally relieve me of my life or property

    I never feel it necessary to tell anyone if/when/how I am carrying my gun, so carry prohibitions on the designated areas mean little to me. I carry everywhere

    - Federal buildings-- Don't go there. They have nothing I need.

    - Court facilities-- Not a plaintiff or a defendant, and only had jury duty once. Never go there.

    - Indian lands unless by tribal permission; this may also apply to certain casinos on Indian lands-- Rarely go there to gamble. Vegas much more fun.

    - Secure areas of airports-- Flying is a hassle (whole other story), but most places I drive.

    - Social Security offices-- Been there three times in my life, only for SSN Cards. Like walking into the bar in Star Wars. They have nothing I need.

    - Posted private property where the owner prohibits firearms-- I don't hang out with these kind of alpha p*ssies. They DEFINITELY have nothing I need.
     
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