Oregon Registration Laws?

[Nwcid]

The last gun I sold I had transferred through a FFL for my own peace of mind. If it was used in a crime after the fact it won't point to me. If I knew the person (friend, co-worker, relative) I wouldn't require it. Having a CHL would go a long way to easing my mind if selling to a stranger. I would still ask for a bill of sale.

How do you figure?

When guns are traced the first place they start is from the maker and then follow the path until the first "non licensed person" receives it. Then they knock on that door first. So if you were the original purchaser of that gun you very well may still get a knock on your door. There is NO registration on Title 1 firearms so they have NO way to know that you are no longer in possession of it. Here is right from the ATF how a trace works. <broken link removed>

With that said if they come knocking all you have to do is say you sold it and in the majority of cases that is the end of the story. I guess transferring it at an FFL can help a little but how do YOU prove you transferred it at all?

 

[duane black]

How do you figure?

When guns are traced the first place they start is from the maker and then follow the path until the first "non licensed person" receives it. Then they knock on that door first. So if you were the original purchaser of that gun you very well may still get a knock on your door. There is NO registration on Title 1 firearms so they have NO way to know that you are no longer in possession of it. Here is right from the ATF how a trace works. <broken link removed>

With that said if they come knocking all you have to do is say you sold it and in the majority of cases that is the end of the story. I guess transferring it at an FFL can help a little but how do YOU prove you transferred it at all?

Agreed.

I really like the Texas Gun Trader form, for anybody interested. Seems to cover the bases reasonably well. I would also add the good guy card as a stipulation of the sale, I know some would disagree. To each his own.

<broken link removed>

This can be a dangerous hobby, in more ways than one.

 

[Nwcid]

A bill of sale will protect you the exact same amount of saying I sold it.

For you to be charged with any kind of crime associated with a gun you sold the cops would have a lot of pieces to put together. There are things like where you were and motive they would have to prove and if they can do that a BOS really will not help.

Whenever I sell or buy I follow the law, nothing more nothing less........

 

[duane black]

A bill of sale will protect you the exact same amount of saying I sold it.

For you to be charged with any kind of crime associated with a gun you sold the cops would have a lot of pieces to put together. There are things like where you were and motive they would have to prove and if they can do that a BOS really will not help.

Whenever I sell or buy I follow the law, nothing more nothing less........

I don't want to thread jack this to much but I see value in having a signed form where a person states they are not a prohibited person and legally able to own a firearm. Throw this in with a WADL ID check and requiring a CPL and I think it would be very difficult for the government to state you supplied a gun to a prohibited person.

Is it required by law, well, the form isn't. I would rather have the form if I was standing in front of the ATF instead of " well, he said he wasn't prohibited " ! I have known prohibited people that you would never in a million years know they spent time in the California State Prison system. One, more than a decade. He's a grandpa and I have to read his facebook posts daily. ( family )

Just my .02

 

[Nwcid]

Again I follow the law nothing more or less. If forms, or ID, or FFL, or all the above make you feel better by all means do so. I know the search feature is down but this topic has been beat to death on this forum and many others.

Here is what the law actually says about prohibited people; A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. It does not say you have to know, it says you have no reason to believe. ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Unlicensed Persons

 

[duane black]

Again I follow the law nothing more or less. If forms, or ID, or FFL, or all the above make you feel better by all means do so. I know the search feature is down but this topic has been beat to death on this forum and many others.

Here is what the law actually says about prohibited people; A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. It does not say you have to know, it says you have no reason to believe. ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Unlicensed Persons

I see value in due diligence, I understand your position is also perfectly legal. To each his own.

 

[trekkerpaul]

Any responsible gun owner that owns a gun in this state is going to ask for a bill of sale. If I am buying a firearm privately I want a bill of sale to prove I own it or if I am parting with one to prove that I am no longer in possession of it. That and I am not going to buy from or sell to someone that is not an in state resident. Personally I would prefer to sell to someone that has a CHL so I know they have gone through federal background checks and are not a felon. It would further be my preference to go through one of my local FFL dealers. I do at a minimum run a background on any firearm I am planning to purchase to make sure it is not stolen, in addition to the above listed BOS.

 

[Nwcid]

Any responsible gun owner that owns a gun in this state is going to ask for a bill of sale. If I am buying a firearm privately I want a bill of sale to prove I own it or if I am parting with one to prove that I am no longer in possession of it. That and I am not going to buy from or sell to someone that is not an in state resident. Personally I would prefer to sell to someone that has a CHL so I know they have gone through federal background checks and are not a felon. It would further be my preference to go through one of my local FFL dealers. I do at a minimum run a background on any firearm I am planning to purchase to make sure it is not stolen, in addition to the above listed BOS.

Interesting concept here and since you bring it up lets go with it. WHO gets to decide what is "responsible"? Are you saying that by only following the law people are irresponsible? Are you saying that only people who do exactly what you do are "responsible"?

In reality what you are saying since you also include going to an FFL is that YOU do not think FTF sales are "responsible".

So in that line of thought why not just have national registration? That would be more responsible right? How about limiting the number of guns you can own? Even more responsible?

Or are you just a believer of "sensible gun control"?

 

[trekkerpaul]

Interesting concept here and since you bring it up lets go with it. WHO gets to decide what is "responsible"? Are you saying that by only following the law people are irresponsible? Are you saying that only people who do exactly what you do are "responsible"?

In reality what you are saying since you also include going to an FFL is that YOU do not think FTF sales are "responsible".

So in that line of thought why not just have national registration? That would be more responsible right? How about limiting the number of guns you can own? Even more responsible?

Or are you just a believer of "sensible gun control"?

No I am not a supporter of universal registration. As current law stands and in order to protect myself in the sale or purchase of a firearm, I choose to go with what I need to do to make sure I am not buying a stolen firearm, selling to an out of state resident or a felon.

Semantics don't make for a strong argument. Pretty sure you know exactly what I meant.

 

[Nwcid]

There were NO semantics. You said "Any responsible gun owner that owns a gun in this state is going to ask for a bill of sale". That means that anyone that does not do the same is irresponsible. That means that you believe that anyone who only follows the law is irresponsible. Then you further go on to state "It would further be my preference to go through one of my local FFL dealers". This eliminates FTF sales.

So exactly what is one left to believe based on your statements?

 

[drew]

Any responsible gun owner that owns a gun in this state is going to ask for a bill of sale. If I am buying a firearm privately I want a bill of sale to prove I own it or if I am parting with one to prove that I am no longer in possession of it. That and I am not going to buy from or sell to someone that is not an in state resident. Personally I would prefer to sell to someone that has a CHL so I know they have gone through federal background checks and are not a felon. It would further be my preference to go through one of my local FFL dealers. I do at a minimum run a background on any firearm I am planning to purchase to make sure it is not stolen, in addition to the above listed BOS.

No.

What does a bill of sale sale get you as a seller?

I guess it can give you a little piece of mind as a buyer.

I've bought, sold, and traded firearms without a bill of sale. I believe I am a responsible gun owner. There's a lot of us who won't ask for a bill of sale.

 

[Drame22]

What is a CHL?

Is the book free at OFF?


Cheers,
Drame22

 

[PiratePast40]

What is a CHL?
Is the book free at OFF?
Cheers,
Drame22

A CHL, in Oregon, is a Concealed Handgun License. One reason some are recommending that they check to see if the buyer has one, is to prove that the buyer had undergone a check by the FBI, State Police, and Sheriff of the county where the CHL was issued. It's not necessarily a bad idea but making it mandatory is very close to going down the same road as Illinios with a Firearms Owners Identification Card (FOID). They require it to even purchase ammo. And realisticly, it's validity is only guaranteed on the day it was issued.

There is a fee for the OFF booklet but it's worth every penny. Do yourself a favor and go to the OFF site to look for some answers. You could also do a google search for "Oregon gun laws" or something along those lines. But with a search, it's still a buyer beware warning. Any time you get legal advice on a forum, it's worth exactly what you payed for it.

The main point of most peoples comments are that you should make a reasonable attempt to find the answers by researching the actual laws. Most on this forum are well intentioned and will allways try to give you what they know to be the right answer. But you've really got to satisfy yourself by knowing what the law says.

 

[duane black]

There is a fee for the OFF booklet but it's worth every penny. Do yourself a favor and go to the OFF site to look for some answers. You could also do a google search for "Oregon gun laws" or something along those lines. But with a search, it's still a buyer beware warning. Any time you get legal advice on a forum, it's worth exactly what you payed for it.

The main point of most peoples comments are that you should make a reasonable attempt to find the answers by researching the actual laws. Most on this forum are well intentioned and will allways try to give you what they know to be the right answer. But you've really got to satisfy yourself by knowing what the law says.

This is great advice and should be followed. I know it was mentioned before as well. Educate yourself and make decisions you feel comfortable with.

I'm happy we can even have this discussion to tell you all the truth and as long as I live in Washington I will fight to make sure we can continue to argue over requiring paperwork or not for private party sales up here.

I'm originally from California and have sold many guns private party. We called it PPT or private party transfer. It would require you and I to meet at a ffl, fill out a 4473, run a DROS and require the dealer to hold the weapon for 10 days. There was also a fee for this. Did I mention if it was a handgun it required a Ca Handgun Safety Certificate ? Or how about the lock requirement ? Bring one or buy one at the time of pickup. Yup, total bubblegum BS. This applied to firearms, not just pistols.

God I hate that god forsaken state.

Get the book, and research yourself. I'm sure it would be funny to poll everyone to find out what they actually do for a living, I know I don't have a law degree. I fix computers, lol.

 

[speeddemon94]

So for my part in all of this, I joined this site right after SH in order to help with the pro 2A movement and I believe I was looking for parts and pieces for something.

Since I joined, I have seen several people come in here and ask "how do I..." And a couple of them have been for illegal or questionable things. I read your first few posts to my wife (who hates this site) and it sounded fishy to her.

So that being said, most of us here are very careful about not promoting any behavior that could weaken the cause. This is a public forum and I can guarantee that anti-2A people look here to see what the "crazy gun people" are doing wrong today.

You seem to be fairly new to the world of firearms so: Do your research, don't break the law, and don't give the people who would take our Rights, any additional ammo to use against us.

 

[ctcdesigner]

I guess transferring it at an FFL can help a little but how do YOU prove you transferred it at all?

Doesn't the FFL keep a record of the transfer?

Maybe I didn't say it correctly, but I meant that there would be a paper trail showing the gun was transferred to another party. I am not saying I am against private sales or for UBC, just how I personally sold a firearm.

 

[Nwcid]

I guess transferring it at an FFL can help a little but how do YOU prove you transferred it at all?

Doesn't the FFL keep a record of the transfer?

Maybe I didn't say it correctly, but I meant that there would be a paper trail showing the gun was transferred to another party. I am not saying I am against private sales or for UBC, just how I personally sold a firearm.

Yes there is a 4473 fill out. Then it goes in a stack with the rest of them. Say 3 years from now LEO knocks on your door asking about the gun you sold last year. You say you transferred it thought ABC Guns a few years back. It take a LOT of man hours to try and find that paperwork especially if they are a busy shop. They are not filed under your name, or the gun type, or anything else.

I just went though this with a gun I sold that was in error (laziness) reported stollen after I bought it. It was transferred though and FFL (shipping) to my FFL (receiving) yet still was just fine till 5 years later when I sold it across state lines so it had to go though another FFL. I did not get arrested, detained, harassed, threatened, or abused by LEO for trying to sell a "stolen" gun. A couple of phone calls, a couple of emails and about a week it was all straightened out and the new buyer got his gun. Even after all that my stance on sales and buys stands the same.

 

[PiratePast40]

.....Yes there is a 4473 fill out. Then it goes in a stack with the rest of them. Say 3 years from now LEO knocks on your door asking about the gun you sold last year.....

Paraphrasing you here if you don't mind. Let's say that that knock on the door is because the teacher of one of your kids feels that your child is disruptive and is obviously suffering from a mental disorder, and the school nurse agrees. Since there are guns in the house with a mentally unstable person, they must all be removed. And they have the serial numbers of all of your guns so they know what you have.

A little bit of tin foil hat thinking here - or is it? Just happened in California when a woman was put on a 72 hour hold. In that case, having a gun safe, and the fact that 2 of the guns were registered to the husband didn't make any difference at all.

 

[Drame22]

Well if it eases your mind, I don't intend to be breaking the law. I want a cache of firearms, ammo and supplies in case anything happens.

The reason I don't want it traceable is because if the US government decides that people don't really need guns, I don't want it on record I have any. It's for no other purpose than security.


Thank you for your information.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

I bought one at Big 5 and they made me fill out a ton of paperwork, and I've heard that gun shows will sell you the rifles for the same price, with no registry or background check required.

Cheers!
Drame22

Drame22, what was the "ton of paperwork" that Big 5 made you fill out? I bought a shotgun from Big 5 this month and all I had to do was fill out the Form 4473 and show them my Oregon Drivers License just like with any in store long gun purchase.