Oregon laws on family sales

[Gunguy98]

I'm 19 and live in Oregon. My brother in law is wanting to sell his Taurus and I really want to add it to my safe. I believe in family safety and have used this particular 9mm before, so I know how to handle it. I know that by law he is considered immediate family in oregon ( not sure about elsewhere) and am just wondering about the legality of it. Could I buy it from him or would it have to be a gift? I know that in oregon anyone over 18 can legally own a handgun and can even open carry it, and I know I can't buy one from an FFL but can I buy one from him?

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[v0lcom13sn0w]

if he gifts it to your wife and then she gifts it to you im sure thats fine. no BGC.

 

[Yarome]

if he gifts it to your wife and then she gifts it to you im sure thats fine. no BGC.

X2. I'm not a lawyer, but as I understand it... under ORS 166.435(4)(c) an in-law does not qualify as an "immediate family member" for the sake of exemption of a BGC. All the better if the firearm was aquired during their marriage and is considered community property, but as v0lcom13sn0w noted... it's perfectly legal for your BIL to give his wife a firearm. If your sister wants to give "you" a firearm then that's perfectly fine as well.

That being said... there is definately some "gray area" there. Most of which boils down to "intent". You have to decide for yourselves where your comfort level lay, but for me and my house... it would be a non-issue.

On a completely unrelated topic... if you decided one day to float a few bucks your sisters way to help buy diapers, this, that, the other... or just because you're a cool brother and felt like it... there's no law against that.

 

[ob1]

X2. I'm not a lawyer, but as I understand it... under ORS 166.435(4)(c) an in-law does not qualify as an "immediate family member" for the sake of exemption of a BGC. All the better if the firearm was aquired during their marriage and is considered community property, but as v0lcom13sn0w noted... it's perfectly legal for your BIL to give his wife a firearm. If your sister wants to give "you" a firearm then that's perfectly fine as well.

The "gray area" question that comes to mind with me here...if the sole purpose of the transfer is to avoid a BGC by using the wife/sister as a buffer, doesn't a constructive straw purchase exist between the BIL and the ultimate transferee ?

 

[Alexx1401]

Where this is going to possibly be a problem is people and what they say. If this gun ends up a a crime, for any reason, who last had it papered? If law Officers show up to the last known owners house and ask, "how did your gun end up here" what are they going to say? This is where this can be a real problem. So if you all decide to "skirt" laws and do this just remember to make sure whoever legally owns that gun right now needs to be very careful in the future.

 

[Camelfilter]

Where this is going to possibly be a problem is people and what they say. If this gun ends up a a crime, for any reason, who last had it papered? If law Officers who up to the last known owners house and ask, "how did your gun end up here" what are they going to say? This is where this can be a real problem. So if you all decide to "skirt" laws and do this just remember to make sure whoever legally owns that gun right now needs to be very careful in the future.

Yah.

However, whomever legally owns the firearm now can simply write out a bill of sale (bill of gift) to whomever they are gifting it to. Both parties then retain a copy of said receipt, along with any other important family documents.

Once the gifted - to party has had a chance to decide wether they like it and want to keep it, or not, and they may decide they would like to gift it further along to there spouse. Another "bill of gift" receipt...

Done.

 

[Alexx1401]

Yah.

However, whomever legally owns the firearm now can simply write out a bill of sale (bill of gift) to whomever they are gifting it to. Both parties then retain a copy of said receipt, along with any other important family documents.

Once the gifted - to party has had a chance to decide wether they like it and want to keep it, or not, and they may decide they would like to gift it further along to there spouse. Another "bill of gift" receipt...

Done.

Yes, if, and that is the big if here, what they are doing is not trying to skirt some law. The thread went with people telling this person that they did not think what he wanted was legal. So they were suggesting ways he could make it work. That's all fine just like your idea is all fine. Until someone says the wrong thing to some Cop who shows up asking how the gun got in the wrong hands. Making up a bill of sale will NOT protect someone if they make the mistake of later admitting they knew they were trying to transfer a gun to someone who could not legally take the gun. I am not saying don't play these games, just make sure if you are going to dance on the gray area to watch what you say if you end up in front of a Cop. This is just like gun owners who get into a shoot, then talk themselves into trouble by talking.

 

[Stomper]

The burden of proof is on the State, not you. In the given scenario in the OP there's a sister involved, just swap the gun via the outlined route and y'all just keep quiet.... sheesh.

 

[Alexx1401]

The burden of proof is on the State, not you. In the given scenario in the OP there's a sister involved, just swap the gun via the outlined route and y'all just keep quiet.... sheesh.

The "keep quiet" part seems to be something few can do. It is absolutely amazing how many people get themselves in a a jam with a gun for just this reason. They just can't shut up when someone starts asking questions.
It's of course far from limited to just guns. Now and then when we would get bored at work we would start watching vidoe's of "dummies getting arrested" kind of things. It is amazing to watch how many of them start out with some simple traffic stop that the driver could easily have soon forgotten. Instead they start running their yap until they talk themselves into a trip to jail. Often times they are not satisfied with just talking themselves into getting arrested, they want to talk themselves into getting their A$$ kicked in the process. Some amazing talent on display.

 

[Mistman]

Seriously?

You should already have it if you want it not come here to solicit advice.

I've definitely outlived the window for my personal 'good old days' and find myself less tolerant.......of everything!

 

[The Heretic]

The "gray area" question that comes to mind with me here...if the sole purpose of the transfer is to avoid a BGC by using the wife/sister as a buffer, doesn't a constructive straw purchase exist between the BIL and the ultimate transferee ?

Or, is it "community property"?

 

[The Heretic]

The "keep quiet" part seems to be something few can do. It is absolutely amazing how many people get themselves in a a jam with a gun for just this reason. They just can't shut up when someone starts asking questions.
It's of course far from limited to just guns. Now and then when we would get bored at work we would start watching vidoe's of "dummies getting arrested" kind of things. It is amazing to watch how many of them start out with some simple traffic stop that the driver could easily have soon forgotten. Instead they start running their yap until they talk themselves into a trip to jail. Often times they are not satisfied with just talking themselves into getting arrested, they want to talk themselves into getting their A$$ kicked in the process. Some amazing talent on display.

LEOs invite you to talk.

"Sir, do you know why I stopped you?"

"Would it be because of the body in the trunk? Or the drugs hidden under the seat?"

Unless my reason for whatever I did is totally innocent, and even then, I say "no" or "no excuse officer". I don't try to not volunteer anything.

For that matter, do not talk to anybody.

 

[Gunguy98]

Thanks for the replies. I appreciate all the feedback. Just for everyone's information I don't care about background checks I did one when I bought my rifle. And I'll do another one for this pistol if I have to. I just want to make sure that if someone ever breaks into my house, and I use it to protect myself I'm not also going to go to jail alongside my brother-in-law.

 

[Yarome]

I don't care about background checks I did one when I bought my rifle. And I'll do another one for this pistol if I have to.

In that case... and if it wasn't clear yet... then "purchasing" a handgun from your BIL, by the letter of the law, would require an FFL transfer and BGC... which isn't a possibility until you turn 21.

However unconstitutional... I'm not going to encourage someone to break the letter of law. However, as others have said, documenting (ie., gift bill of sale, etc) and offering more information than is required is generally where you'll run into problems... in the VERY off chance that the handgun in question ever passes before the eyes of law enforcement.

Sir, what happened to your gun? I gave it to my wife. Ma'am, where did you get the gun? My husband gave it to me. Where is it now? I don't know. I gave it to my brother. Son, where is the gun? It was stolen during a home invasion. Did you file a police report? Yes, sir. Did you pay your sister for the gun? No, sir.

'nuff said.

 

[ob1]

Or, is it "community property"?

Exactly..talk about mixing two cans of worms. Either way, I wouldn't want to pay an attorney to litigate for the sake of a Taurus.

 

[arakboss]

I noticed comments here emphasizing the gifting of the firearm. I don't believe there is any problem buying the firearm from qualified family, am I wrong?