Oregon IPs 17 and 18 - They're back at it...

[dancinghippos]

Don't try to reach them with facts.... facts don't matter to emotionally driven people.

I agree. Some people are more swayed by emotional arguments and television dramas. But some people focus on facts. I am only one person here. If others can write up and post more material coming at the topic in multiple ways we can have a better impact.

We need multiple people spreading truth in multiple ways in multiple places. I am only one.

My idea: We need something short that can be on a flyer that would be posted on walls, phone poles, etc that has a few short statements and a link to a website visible enough that a person with a cell phone could type the site into their browser and see more. I have a domain name and can hire a web builder. The front page of the website must have just enough to keep a person reading, but not too dense that they will feel overwhelmed. Then subsequent pages have more details, and refutations for each of the mainstream anti-gun arguments. I have a ton of those arguments. I have shared them here as ideas to write to papers and legislators.

 

[LDmax]

We need something short that can be on a flyer

I have a ton of those arguments

If you make it I'll use it

 

[dancinghippos]

If you make it I'll use it

The most difficult thing for me is to come up with the right words for the flyer. I can make lots of detailed factual arguments. I need some short emotional stuff to get attention on those flyers.

 

[Pete F]

How about an IP to defund Churches and remove any tax exemptions or charity status? Separation of church and state, why are they allowed to seek legislation to oppress?

I suggested this for IP 43 and 44. Tried to get as many as possible to write to the IRS and claim that church funds and properties were being used to promote these IP's.

I never got a reply from the IRS.

 

[LDmax]

The most difficult thing for me is to come up with the right words for the flyer. I can make lots of detailed factual arguments. I need some short emotional stuff to get attention on those flyers.

What if you boiled it down into three concise bits - the atttention-grabbing hook, the motivation (what's it to me), and some kind of overview, and then look into some graphics that get the point across without playing into any stereotypes

 

[dancinghippos]

I suggested this for IP 43 and 44. Tried to get as many as possible to write to the IRS and claim that church funds and properties were being used to promote these IP's.

I never got a reply from the IRS.

A few idiots ruin things for gun owners, A few other idiots ruin things for churches. I won't attack all of them just because of one. But mentioning them to the IRS as a single case of abusing their privileges seem reasonable. But if it becomes a thing, the left will report on pro-life churches the same way.

 

[FALshot]

It's almost laughable to suggest that elected officials, like Kate Brown, are supposed to serve and represent the interest's those who did not vote for them.

Oregon Governor Election Results 2018

Kate Brown received 934,498 votes. (She won 7 of Oregon's 36 counties.) Maybe 10% to 20% of the state's land mass.

Knute Buehler received 814,988 votes. (He won 29 of Oregon's 36 counties.) About 80% to 90% of the state's land mass.

Of 1,749,498 votes cast Kate Brown won 119,510 more votes than Knute Buehler and yet we get complete Leftist control of the entire state.

While Multnomah County's Attorney, (A George Soros funded Leftist.) Mike Schmidt refuses to prosecute all but the most egregious of crimes.

Yes, we have to legally fight them at the ballot box. But there seems to be no end to what lawless violence the Leftists politicians will permit through their lack of will to control criminal behavior. (It's as though lawless criminals are a large part of their constituency!)

And at the same time they seek to disarm law abiding taxpayers, taking away their ability to defend themselves and their families.

Worse yet,....

Multnomah County Attorney Mike Schmidt, Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler, and every Portland City Commissioner have "Police Panic Buttons" that ring directly to Portland police precincts, installed in their homes at taxpayer's expense,........While they all support less police funding, (Protection) for hard working Portlanders in the neighborhoods, they all receive "Hyper" Police Protection.

What HYPOCRITES!

It's insanity.

 

[v8engin]

If you do a flyer, be sure to include a QR code, not a wordy link they'd have to type in. Stick to facts. Good luck!

 

[DivCurlGrad72]

Just to put things in perspective: they've been out there collecting signatures since the beginning of November 2021. Deadline for submitting signatures is July 8, 2022. This late in the game, the focus probably needs to switch from potential signatories to potential voters, assuming the anti-rights activists manage to turn in the required 112k signatures by the July deadline.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

It's almost laughable to suggest that elected officials, like Kate Brown, are supposed to serve and represent the interest's those who did not vote for them.

Oregon Governor Election Results 2018

Kate Brown received 934,498 votes. (She won 7 of Oregon's 36 counties.) Maybe 10% to 20% of the state's land mass.

Knute Buehler received 814,988 votes. (He won 29 of Oregon's 36 counties.) About 80% to 90% of the state's land mass.

Of 1,749,498 votes cast Kate Brown won 119,510 more votes than Knute Buehler and yet we get complete Leftist control of the entire state.

While Multnomah County's Attorney, (A George Soros funded Leftist.) Mike Schmidt refuses to prosecute all but the most egregious of crimes.

Yes, we have to legally fight them at the ballot box. But there seems to be no end to what lawless violence the Leftists politicians will permit through their lack of will to control criminal behavior. (It's as though lawless criminals are a large part of their constituency!)

And at the same time they seek to disarm law abiding taxpayers, taking away their ability to defend themselves and their families.

Worst yet,....

Multnomah County Attorney Mike Schmidt, Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler, and every Portland City Commissioner have "Police Panic Buttons" that ring directly to Portland police precincts, installed in their homes at taxpayer's expense,........While they all support less police funding for hard working Portlanders in the neighborhoods, they all receive "Hyper" Police Protection.

What HYPOCRITES!

It's insanity.

Greater Idaho

Join the Greater Idaho movement.

www.greateridaho.org

 

[dancinghippos]

Just to put things in perspective: they've been out there collecting signatures since the beginning of November 2021. Deadline for submitting signatures is July 8, 2022. This late in the game, the focus probably needs to switch from potential signatories to potential voters, assuming the anti-rights activists manage to turn in the required 112k signatures by the July deadline.

You make a good point. On another forum I asked if anyone knows how many signatures they have. Does anyone here know?

 

[dancinghippos]

Does this work?

DONT SIGN THE PETITIONS

Police officers overwhelmingly agree those laws don't reduce crime.

More gun laws impact only you, not criminals.

Repeat offenders commit 90% of violent crime. They are already banned from having guns, but they have guns anyway.

More laws affect only you, not repeat violent offenders.

When seconds count, the police are 10-20 minutes away. How long can you wait?

Scan this QR code to learn the truth. You won't see it on network TV.

 

[AshWilliams]

You make a good point. On another forum I asked if anyone knows how many signatures they have. Does anyone here know?

I would like to know as well. There are no real progress updates on their website, or at least none that I could find. I'm guessing they want to keep this info secret until they show up with the required signatures.

 

[dancinghippos]

This is another version of a flyer:

DONT SIGN THE PETITIONS

Police officers overwhelmingly say more gun laws won't reduce crime. They hurt you, but don't affect repeat violent offenders. Ask a cop.

Repeat offenders commit 90% of violent crimes. The same FEW people, already known to the police, already banned from having guns, but have guns anyway.

A gun makes you equal to a 250 pound attacker. When seconds count, police are 10-20 minutes away. Even if they do catch your attacker, he is out of jail before you are out of the hospital.

You may not need a gun today. But when you decide you need one, it's urgent. A violent ex, people from the encampment down the road, political extremists. All are capable of sudden extreme violence. Don't sign away your ability to defend yourself based on false logic that giving up your defense will stop crime. It has not worked in any US cities it was tried.

Scan this QR code to learn the truth. You won't see it on network TV.

QR code at bottom

 

[icqraid]

Criminals steal, assault people, and murder.

There are laws against all three.

Yet people are still being robbed, getting assaulted and being murdered.

Will adding more laws stop this or will criminals ignore those too?

 

[Aero Denezol]

The truth is most ignorant people out there cannot tell the difference between a fully automatic weapon, like they see in movies, and a semi-automatic sporting rifle. When people hear of mass shootings they are picturing a Hollywood shootout, with Mark Wahlberg doing somersaults, cars exploding and all kinds of BS. They think that is what we have in our safes. I know this because people have attacked me about it, and when I tried to explain, they simply could not make the distinction in their heads. People have no concept of how firearms work! And the media is just okay with letting them remain ignorant.

 

[icqraid]

I found some interesting articles earlier. I haven't had time to make a response for them.
I read the articles on the Oregunfacts website and thought Dancinghippos did a good job. Maybe I can get something written about them by the end of the week but I thought I would put them out now in case someone else wants to write something up.

The first is from Boston University Federal Relations.
The FBI and CDC Datasets Agree: Who Has Guns—Not Which Guns—Linked to Murder Rates

The second is from the ACLU of all places.
Does the Second Amendment Protect Only White Gun Owners?

Now the ACLU definitely has their own slant to the issue. The takeaway that I thought was useful is in the relationship to race and police. I wanted to draw attention to two of lawfully armed black citizens either defending others or restoring order only to be mistaken by police.

I don't hold to the view that police are bad. They are human beings that are under a lot of pressure and stress right now. I just thought coming from the ACLU it would be interesting to point out to people that might consider signing the petition that IP17 requires more interaction with law enforcement which some might reconsider.

I believe I also saw an article from opb about police surveillance. I believe it is also on KGW news.
Audit finds issues with Portland Police Bureau's surveillance practices during 2020 protests
Since IP 17 Section 4 (1)(c) states "
and any additional information determined necessary by department
rules"
Those who already own a firearm or are considering getting one in the future but feel that the text of the initiative won't effect them should see those two points together.

Again, I hold no disrespect toward law enforcement. These are just arguments which can persuade those who have a different view of LEOs to think about their choices.

 

[22hopper]

I would like to know as well. There are no real progress updates on their website, or at least none that I could find. I'm guessing they want to keep this info secret until they show up with the required signatures.

I found this on another Internet forum so take this for what you will…

"Lift Every Voice's petition campaign not going well
In a recent email about signature gathering they stated:

> DO I REALLY NEED TO DO MORE – JUST HOW ARE WE DOING?

> We have had about 25% of the signature sheets that are in your hands returned. We don't know the status of the other 75%. If they're fully completed they would give us 45,000 signatures. We have about 480 Circulators signed up. Using round numbers, to get 140,000 signatures will require each of us to get 270 more signatures. Some have already exceeded that number (Bravo!!!) But, we get it, for many… 270…... that's stunning. How will we do this? We can each set a personal goal and commit to it.

If I'm reading this right, they've collected 10,500 signatures. No idea how many of those have been accepted by the election's division, but it's common for them to reject some amount of signatures.

Realistically they need closer to 150,000 to 160,000 signatures.

They have until July 8th and they've been preparing for this campaign since September last year."

 

[dancinghippos]

The truth is most ignorant people out there cannot tell the difference between a fully automatic weapon, like they see in movies, and a semi-automatic sporting rifle. When people hear of mass shootings they are picturing a Hollywood shootout, with Mark Wahlberg doing somersaults, cars exploding and all kinds of BS. They think that is what we have in our safes. I know this because people have attacked me about it, and when I tried to explain, they simply could not make the distinction in their heads. People have no concept of how firearms work! And the media is just okay with letting them remain ignorant.

Agree. Ignorance of something they know nothing about except what they see on TV presented by the likes of ABC, NBC and CBS.

If someone you know expresses a silly opinion that seems like they don't know anything, offer to teach them to shoot. Pique their curiosity. Offer to teach with your gun, your ammo, your ride to the range. Teach the basics, make sure they understand the safety aspects, then teach them on an easy target. Make it easy and successful. A smallish caliber to ensure they aren't scared when it goes bang and they can hit what they aim at. Instant and easy success. Light,easy, fun day. Buy lunch.

 

[dancinghippos]

This could be a front page on a website. An introduction and a few points made:


A Portland group is collecting signatures to put gun-control initiatives on the ballot. Please decline to sign if asked. Don't give up your rights of self protection. Those laws don't affect crime, but they hurt your ability to protect yourself.

People who ignore assault and murder laws also ignore gun laws. 90% of violent crimes are committed by repeat offenders. Repeat offenders like the Sacramento shooters are already forbidden from having guns, but they had them anyway. What does stop attackers? Often it is someone else with a gun - the gun these feel-good initiatives punish you for having.

How do we know those laws don't affect crime?
Ask any police officer if laws registering or banning so-called "semi-automatic" weapons or larger magazines affect crime. They will say NO. PoliceOne, an organization of about 380,000 active and 70,000 retired officers, surveyed 15,000 members on gun control policies. 71% of them said a ban on so-called "assault weapons" would have no effect on violent crime. 20% of the respondents said it would make crime worse. The numbers were even more striking when asking about magazine size restrictions.
This is a link to a summary page:

PoliceOne's Gun Control Survey: 11 key lessons from officers' perspectives

Never before has such a comprehensive survey of law enforcement officers’ opinions on gun control, gun violence, and gun rights been conducted

www.police1.com

In 1994, Congress passed laws restricting semi-automatic weapons and magazine sizes. The law had a 10-year sunset provision. Researchers from both sides of that issue studied its impact on crime over the following decade and found no effect. Because of those results, Congress let the law sunset.

Gun control laws only hurt victims, especially the marginalized communities where gangsters and violence hurt people the most. The police can't be there to stop crime, and these laws imposed by people who don't have to deal with those problems prevent residents from protecting themselves.

Gun control doesn't work. Repeat offender control does work. Why not do that instead? Because it takes political courage, which our politicians don't have. Easier to blame gun owners. Don't buy it.

You may not be worried about self-protection today. Do you want to make that a lifetime decision? You want to know now that if an ex gets violent or people from a close-by encampment show up in your house, or other kinds of predators become a threat, you protect yourself and your familty. When seconds count, the police are 10-20 minutes away. Police write good reports, but if they aren't already there, they can't protect you. If you need protection, you can't wait. Don't sign away your rights to protect yourself in the future. You know they won't stop with these laws. They never do. You don't want to pay with your rights for the crimes of a handful of repeat offenders who should have been in jail.