Oregon IPs 17 and 18 - They're back at it...

[Aero Denezol]

I bet dollars to dimes Knutson and his self important jerks have people doing recon on these forums.

 

[bentoncity]

Anyone done a dig down on these organizations? Are they registered in Ore as a business or non-profit?

 

[Member 75076]

I bet dollars to dimes Knutson and his self important jerks have people doing recon on these forums.

They can do that all they want. They might learn that us gun owners aren't all that different from them, we just disagree on their proposed solutions to addressing unlawful use of firearms.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

Has anyone done a line by line examination of each IP, restating in plain language what people can and can't do after passage?

 

[Member 75076]

Has anyone done a line by line examination of each IP, restating in plain language what people can and can't do after passage?

I've read it line for line and I'm not going to verbatim recite everything in it because at that point you might as well just read the bill yourself. Here's a summary...

IP17:
Section 4: Outlines permit-to-purchase for firearms regulated by either police chief or county sheriff (whichever has jurisdiction over residence of applicant). Qualifications to obtain a permit basically align with current federal/state laws regarding firearm ownership. Although in 4(C) it does state that you can be denied due to having history of making "threats of unlawful violence". These applications for permits must be signed in person. Requires completion of firearms safety course to obtain said permit. Training course requires in-person demonstration of firearm handling skills. Requires permitting agencies to publish numbers of applications issued or denied + reason for denial. Requires that the permitting agency issue to qualified applicants within 30 days. Application fee can not exceed $65. Permit is valid for 5 years. Renewal fee not to exceed $50.

Section 5: This entire section has to do with appealing denials. Police/corrections officers may revoke your permit if the permit holder is arrested for a crime that would be disqualifying. Denied person must petition circuit court in their jurisdiction. Petition must be filed within 30 days after denial of permit or revocation.

Section 6: Rules pertaining to dealers on how these permits need to be handled. Requires gun buyer present valid ID and purchase permit. Requires dealer to verify validity of permit. Dealer may not transfer firearm to purchaser without positive confirmation of permit. Dealer must notify state that firearm was handed off to the purchaser within 48 hours. Creates criminal penalties for dealers who transfer firearms without verifying permits.

Section 7: Pertains to private transfers. Pretty much the same as section 6. Exemptions for temporary transfers like when you're out shooting with friends and stuff.

Section 8 & 9: Requires permits for all transactions at gun shows (so basically same as section 6).

Section 11: Ban of magazines over 10 rounds. Makes it a crime to possess or manufacture magazines over 10 rounds after date of enactment. Grandfathers existing magazines.

IP18: (from some googling it seems like this might be a copy and paste of Connecticut's AWB)
Section 3: All the pertinent definitions. Bans a boat load of weapons by name, many of which are already banned (post 1986) due to being fully automatic. Ban includes "copies, duplicates, variants, or facsimiles" of the firearms on the big list. Includes typical accessory checklist to define assault weapon - folding/telescoping stock, pistol grip, forward pistol grip, flash suppressor, length less than 30 inches, etc.

Section 4: Makes it a crime to possess an "assault weapon" after the date of enactment. Grandfathers existing weapons on the grounds they be registered.

Section 5: Requires registration within 180 days of law going into effect. Allows weapon to be transported in a locked container (or with a trigger lock) to gun ranges, gun stores, hunting, etc.

Section 6: State Police registry of assault weapons. Registry is exempt from public disclosure.

 

[bentoncity]

I've read it line for line and I'm not going to verbatim recite everything in it because at that point you might as well just read the bill yourself. Here's a summary...

IP17:
Section 4: Outlines permit-to-purchase for firearms regulated by either police chief or county sheriff (whichever has jurisdiction over residence of applicant). Qualifications to obtain a permit basically align with current federal/state laws regarding firearm ownership. Although in 4(C) it does state that you can be denied due to having history of making "threats of unlawful violence". These applications for permits must be signed in person. Requires completion of firearms safety course to obtain said permit. Training course requires in-person demonstration of firearm handling skills. Requires permitting agencies to publish numbers of applications issued or denied + reason for denial. Requires that the permitting agency issue to qualified applicants within 30 days. Application fee can not exceed $65. Permit is valid for 5 years. Renewal fee not to exceed $50.

Section 5: This entire section has to do with appealing denials. Police/corrections officers may revoke your permit if the permit holder is arrested for a crime that would be disqualifying. Denied person must petition circuit court in their jurisdiction. Petition must be filed within 30 days after denial of permit or revocation.

Section 6: Rules pertaining to dealers on how these permits need to be handled. Requires gun buyer present valid ID and purchase permit. Requires dealer to verify validity of permit. Dealer may not transfer firearm to purchaser without positive confirmation of permit. Dealer must notify state that firearm was handed off to the purchaser within 48 hours. Creates criminal penalties for dealers who transfer firearms without verifying permits.

Section 7: Pertains to private transfers. Pretty much the same as section 6. Exemptions for temporary transfers like when you're out shooting with friends and stuff.

Section 8 & 9: Requires permits for all transactions at gun shows (so basically same as section 6).

Section 11: Ban of magazines over 10 rounds. Makes it a crime to possess or manufacture magazines over 10 rounds after date of enactment. Grandfathers existing magazines.

IP18: (from some googling it seems like this might be a copy and paste of Connecticut's AWB)
Section 3: All the pertinent definitions. Bans a boat load of weapons by name, many of which are already banned (post 1986) due to being fully automatic. Ban includes "copies, duplicates, variants, or facsimiles" of the firearms on the big list. Includes typical accessory checklist to define assault weapon - folding/telescoping stock, pistol grip, forward pistol grip, flash suppressor, length less than 30 inches, etc.

Section 4: Makes it a crime to possess an "assault weapon" after the date of enactment. Grandfathers existing weapons on the grounds they be registered.

Section 5: Requires registration within 180 days of law going into effect. Allows weapon to be transported in a locked container (or with a trigger lock) to gun ranges, gun stores, hunting, etc.

Section 6: State Police registry of assault weapons. Registry is exempt from public disclosure.

If we had an angry or disgusting emoticon here...I'd be using the heck out of it over the context of what you posted. That is the some of the most disgusting anti-constitutional cr@p I've ever seen in a long time. When someone starts the LEGAL fight against this, I HOPE it get posted because I'm darn sure going to contribute $ to the fight.
But I'm asking again..who/whom are the people (501c3's if any) backing this and are they LEGAL?

Dan

 

[Jay Walk]

"The rally is Sunday at 1 p.m. at Pioneer Courthouse Square.

If you plan to attend, organizers are asking for toy donations."

I suggest we all donate toy guns!

 

[PDXbiker]

Has anyone done a line by line examination of each IP, restating in plain language what people can and can't do after passage?

The bottom line is if there is something you really want that is affected by these IPs get it before the end of 2022.

 

[arakboss]

Has anyone done a line by line examination of each IP, restating in plain language what people can and can't do after passage?

This is exactly what I want to do as part of the IP17 & IP18 FAQ website.

 

[arakboss]

I've read it line for line and I'm not going to verbatim recite everything in it because at that point you might as well just read the bill yourself. Here's a summary...

IP17:
Section 4: Outlines permit-to-purchase for firearms regulated by either police chief or county sheriff (whichever has jurisdiction over residence of applicant). Qualifications to obtain a permit basically align with current federal/state laws regarding firearm ownership. Although in 4(C) it does state that you can be denied due to having history of making "threats of unlawful violence". These applications for permits must be signed in person. Requires completion of firearms safety course to obtain said permit. Training course requires in-person demonstration of firearm handling skills. Requires permitting agencies to publish numbers of applications issued or denied + reason for denial. Requires that the permitting agency issue to qualified applicants within 30 days. Application fee can not exceed $65. Permit is valid for 5 years. Renewal fee not to exceed $50.

Section 5: This entire section has to do with appealing denials. Police/corrections officers may revoke your permit if the permit holder is arrested for a crime that would be disqualifying. Denied person must petition circuit court in their jurisdiction. Petition must be filed within 30 days after denial of permit or revocation.

Section 6: Rules pertaining to dealers on how these permits need to be handled. Requires gun buyer present valid ID and purchase permit. Requires dealer to verify validity of permit. Dealer may not transfer firearm to purchaser without positive confirmation of permit. Dealer must notify state that firearm was handed off to the purchaser within 48 hours. Creates criminal penalties for dealers who transfer firearms without verifying permits.

Section 7: Pertains to private transfers. Pretty much the same as section 6. Exemptions for temporary transfers like when you're out shooting with friends and stuff.

Section 8 & 9: Requires permits for all transactions at gun shows (so basically same as section 6).

Section 11: Ban of magazines over 10 rounds. Makes it a crime to possess or manufacture magazines over 10 rounds after date of enactment. Grandfathers existing magazines.

IP18: (from some googling it seems like this might be a copy and paste of Connecticut's AWB)
Section 3: All the pertinent definitions. Bans a boat load of weapons by name, many of which are already banned (post 1986) due to being fully automatic. Ban includes "copies, duplicates, variants, or facsimiles" of the firearms on the big list. Includes typical accessory checklist to define assault weapon - folding/telescoping stock, pistol grip, forward pistol grip, flash suppressor, length less than 30 inches, etc.

Section 4: Makes it a crime to possess an "assault weapon" after the date of enactment. Grandfathers existing weapons on the grounds they be registered.

Section 5: Requires registration within 180 days of law going into effect. Allows weapon to be transported in a locked container (or with a trigger lock) to gun ranges, gun stores, hunting, etc.

Section 6: State Police registry of assault weapons. Registry is exempt from public disclosure.

I think the impacts these IPs could have on Oregonians are going to be what triggers fence sitters to vote yes or no on these IPs. They are probably not going to care about the specific interpretations of each line but if a certain line in the IP means many residents are going to be unknowingly committing felonies and/or small businesses are going to have to shut down or severely cut back on employee counts, that sort of stuff may be persuasive. The fence sitters along with solid pro2a voters need to realize that this is a drip feed approach leading to UK, Australia type bans.

The permit to purchase scheme is about deterring people from buying a firearm not about gun safety. Do you honestly think they care whether you can demonstrate that you can fire a gun before issuing a permit a purchase. No, they simply want to make it more expensive, more time consuming and more difficult to be a able to buy a gun. They know this will discourage many casual gun buyers who don't want to deal with all the hassles of getting a permit.

My greatest hope is that Oregon voters and businesses (not including gun haters) will wake up. They need to quit the infighting, denigrating our youth, and other gun owners. Organize, Unite and Participate. The Antis are good at this and it will eventually pay off for them. The Antis also have well funded backers, massive support in the business communities and in the governments.

We can see what they want to do by observing what has happened in other States and other countries. Don't let them acclimate you through to their end game. I don't think folks realize how far they want to go with these bans but they will.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

The more that I read IP17, the more it appears to contain multiple subjects.

 

[arakboss]

The more that I read IP17, the more it appears to contain multiple subjects.

What does the law say about the one subject rule, do you have a link?

 

[DivCurlGrad72]

What does the law say about the one subject rule, do you have a link?

Try this (section 1.1.1):

Laws governing the initiative process in Oregon

Ballotpedia: The Encyclopedia of American Politics

ballotpedia.org

There's links to the Oregon Constitution. Article IV, Section 1, Subsection (2)(d):

An initiative petition shall include the full text of the proposed law or amendment to the Constitution. A proposed law or amendment to the Constitution shall embrace one subject only and matters properly connected therewith.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

What does the law say about the one subject rule, do you have a link?

Laws governing the initiative process in Oregon

Ballotpedia: The Encyclopedia of American Politics

ballotpedia.org

 

[arakboss]

Try this (section 1.1.1):

Laws governing the initiative process in Oregon

Ballotpedia: The Encyclopedia of American Politics

ballotpedia.org

There's links to the Oregon Constitution. Article IV, Section 1, Subsection (2)(d):

My guess would be firearms was the "subject" and the permit to purchase and mag ban was the "matters properly connected therewith". It would be a good question for OFF and I am guessing they will have an answer.

 

[AshWilliams]

I think the impacts these IPs could have on Oregonians are going to be what triggers fence sitters to vote yes or no on these IPs. They are probably not going to care about the specific interpretations of each line but if a certain line in the IP means many residents are going to be unknowingly committing felonies and/or small businesses are going to have to shut down or severely cut back on employee counts, that sort of stuff may be persuasive. The fence sitters along with solid pro2a voters need to realize that this is a drip feed approach leading to UK, Australia type bans.

The permit to purchase scheme is about deterring people from buying a firearm not about gun safety. Do you honestly think they care whether you can demonstrate that you can fire a gun before issuing a permit a purchase. No, they simply want to make it more expensive, more time consuming and more difficult to be a able to buy a gun. They know this will discourage many casual gun buyers who don't want to deal with all the hassles of getting a permit.

My greatest hope is that Oregon voters and businesses (not including gun haters) will wake up. They need to quit the infighting, denigrating our youth, and other gun owners. Organize, Unite and Participate. The Antis are good at this and it will eventually pay off for them. The Antis also have well funded backers, massive support in the business communities and in the governments.

We can see what they want to do by observing what has happened in other States and other countries. Don't let them acclimate you through to their end game. I don't think folks realize how far they want to go with these bans but they will.

My fear is that most of the OR populace including firearm owners are not even aware of this gun grab effort and will not be at all familiar with what this legislation is actually doing and based on the title of IPs will simply vote yes as violence involving firearms is in the forefront right now of the media, especially Portland. Voters will read the titles and vote with their feelings and in one fell swoop OR will be under the most draconian gun control laws in the country.

 

[arakboss]

My fear is that most of the OR populace including firearm owners are not even aware of this gun grab effort and will not be at all familiar with what this legislation is actually doing and based on the title of IPs will simply vote yes as violence involving firearms is in the forefront right now of the media, especially Portland. Voters will read the titles and vote with their feelings and in one fell swoop OR will be under the most draconian gun control laws in the country.

I agree. It will fall on those who realize what the real impacts of these IPs will be, to educate and raise awareness among those who don't. FFLs should be taking a lead role in this awareness effort but history indicates they won't.

 

[DivCurlGrad72]

Very short news report regarding the IP signing event this afternoon:

Gun control advocates gather signatures for initiatives in downtown Portland

Volunteers were out collecting signatures for two ballot initiatives in downtown Portland Sunday. They say the initiatives could help reduce gun violence. Lift Every Voice Oregon has filed two statewide Initiative Petitions (IP) for the 2022 November ballot. One would require someone to have a...

katu.com

 

[AshWilliams]

Very short news report regarding the IP signing event this afternoon:

Gun control advocates gather signatures for initiatives in downtown Portland

Volunteers were out collecting signatures for two ballot initiatives in downtown Portland Sunday. They say the initiatives could help reduce gun violence. Lift Every Voice Oregon has filed two statewide Initiative Petitions (IP) for the 2022 November ballot. One would require someone to have a...

katu.com

"We have gun owners and non-gun owners in our group..." What firearm owner would back this bubblegum?!

 

[DivCurlGrad72]

"We have gun owners and non-gun owners in our group..." What firearm owner would back this bubblegum?!

Well, Kate Brown's a "gun owner":

• Own a firearm? "Yes, I have an antique shotgun."

Kate Brown: 9 key decisions on gun control

Platforms 2018: Here's how Oregon's incumbent governor, Kate Brown, stands on gun legislation and ownership.

www.oregonlive.com