Oregon HB 3118 2023

[MichaelH]

It’s not a terrible idea, bc most city kids have no exposure to firearms. Kids who grow up around firearms or whose parents own firearms learn to never, even joking or toys (which parents ignored for cap guns and water pistols) point a gun at someone, and treat all firearms as if they are loaded. The problem from a 2A perspective is that for kids who don’t get nuance, you have to have a black and white rule that all guns are dangerous. That’s great for early elementary school kids, but in middle school when rural kids are learning to hunt, urban kids aren’t and they aren’t going to get a different message that firearms are dangerous and useful, and from entertainment the dangerousness will be highlighted.

My perspective is based on a childhood spent in rural VA, where every house had at least a shotgun and a .22, and the middle of a midwestern city, where I can only remember one parent of all my friends even owning a firearm. If there was a firearm in anyone’s house it might have been a bolt action rifle, bolt removed, that someone’s grandfather brought back from the war. By this time—the mid-80’s—the demographic of urbanites who might have hunted had already split for the suburbs.

As for OP, if you’ve got thin skin, this forum might not be for you.

 

[Yarome]

They have it easy, "all guns are bad".

That's exactly correct. Anti-gun orgs are singularly focused. "Guns are bad", "the 2A doesn't matter", "needless loss of life demands attention".

That's an easy sell to rally behind and their actions and ideology are strictly controlled by a small tightknit few. Believe as we do, support what we do, or get out.

On the flip side, "the 2A matters", "people are bad, not guns"... but we are in agreement and can't argue many of the same points that the anti's use against us. Needless loss of life is tragic, it demands attention and action... which leads to much more diverse and difficult questions supported by varying degrees among the 2A community.

As @solv3nt very aptly and succinctly pointed out... those that exercise their 2A rights span a massive range of ideologies and demographics. In and of itself that makes universal cohesion in purpose a much more difficult prospect.

2A'ers are also, typically, more conservative in our social values that don't include using the same underhanded and flat out deceitful tactics that the anti-2A's are so fond of. Any means necessary to their desired end.

 

[SonicBlue03]

It’s not a terrible idea, bc most city kids have no exposure to firearms. Kids who grow up around firearms or whose parents own firearms learn to never, even joking or toys (which parents ignored for cap guns and water pistols) point a gun at someone, and treat all firearms as if they are loaded. The problem from a 2A perspective is that for kids who don’t get nuance, you have to have a black and white rule that all guns are dangerous. That’s great for early elementary school kids, but in middle school when rural kids are learning to hunt, urban kids aren’t and they aren’t going to get a different message that firearms are dangerous and useful, and from entertainment the dangerousness will be highlighted.

My perspective is based on a childhood spent in rural VA, where every house had at least a shotgun and a .22, and the middle of a midwestern city, where I can only remember one parent of all my friends even owning a firearm. If there was a firearm in anyone’s house it might have been a bolt action rifle, bolt removed, that someone’s grandfather brought back from the war. By this time—the mid-80’s—the demographic of urbanites who might have hunted had already split for the suburbs.

As for OP, if you’ve got thin skin, this forum might not be for you.

Nor is politics, for that matter.
Still, though, the idea of bringing up new generations of children not to be afraid of guns but to be informed and respectful tends to go a decent way in helping children grow into adults with actual perspective when it comes to the toolset.

 

[solv3nt]

Nor is politics, for that matter.
Still, though, the idea of bringing up new generations of children not to be afraid of guns but to be informed and respectful tends to go a decent way in helping children grow into adults with actual perspective when it comes to the toolset.

Just remember, once the genie is out of the bottle, what's to stop the likes of Pink Floyd from changing the instructors such that the lessons are extremely anti-gun.

Forgive my distrust of the government, but once a law is made, it's unlikely to get removed.

 

[solv3nt]

We get shafted every time because we deserve it.

Nice going, bubblegums.

Wrong!

He doesn’t have time to waste here.

Someone says something, someone else argues with them, everyone gets butt hurt, and the anti’s win. I’m tired of it.

Just so we're clear here, it's ok for you to be divisive, just not anybody else?

 

[PiratePast40]

Just remember, once the genie is out of the bottle, what's to stop the likes of Pink Floyd from changing the instructors such that the lessons are extremely anti-gun.

Forgive my distrust of the government, but once a law is made, it's unlikely to get removed.

That's exactly what can happen to any bill. Once a hearing is held, a working committee can put anything they want in it. The sponsor would have no idea how they turned their well meaning bill into a monstrosity. Texas Floyd and crew are experts at gut and stuff. They're also experts at having the hearing just hours before the working group deadline. They'll smile at you through the hearing knowing full well your bill is dead.

 

[solv3nt]

That's exactly what can happen to any bill. Once a hearing is held, a working committee can put anything they want in it. The sponsor would have no idea how they turned their well meaning bill into a monstrosity. Texas Floyd and crew are experts at gut and stuff. They're also experts at having the hearing just hours before the working group deadline. They'll smile at you through the hearing knowing full well your bill is dead.

I'm more referring to if this were to pass. Now we have mandatory gun safety. It started as don't touch them, and morphs into, "there is no reason anybody should own a gun and tell the police".

Once you give the government power, they don't like to give it up.

 

[Flymph]

It's not that the vision is unseen. The problem is if the "hey look at me" post isn't clear, concise and to the point, where is the expectation that the legislation is correct?

We also did this several years ago, and they shot him down last time... IIRC

I thought the last bill introduced was pretty good, and I'll do what I can to support this one (assuming it involves elective safe handling courses for children in schools).

 

[Flymph]

I agree with some of the inquiries and supposition about this legislation, but I feel the government does have a responsibility to educate firearm safety and support shooting sports in public schools... especially if the state mandates training and permitting. I'd say let the sheriffs, ODFW or CMP do the educating and extracurricular activities. They can reallocate the tobacco tax revenue that's disappearing into the void...

 

[solv3nt]

I agree with some of the inquiries and supposition about this legislation, but I feel the government does have a responsibility to educate firearm safety and support shooting sports in public schools... especially if the state mandates training and permitting. I'd say let the sheriffs, ODFW or CMP do the educating and extracurricular activities. They can reallocate the tobacco tax revenue that's disappearing into the void...

I was a kid in elementary school 30 years ago, and every now and then they'd mention that if you find a gun "tell an adult, don't touch it".

 

[Flymph]

I was a kid in elementary school 30 years ago, and every now and then they'd mention that if you find a gun "tell an adult, don't touch it".

Eddie Eagle? Yeah, I don't hear about that anymore... but I'd definitely like to see competitive target sports brought back.

 

[solv3nt]

Eddie Eagle? Yeah, I don't hear about that anymore... but I'd definitely like to see competitive target sports brought back.

I don't know about Eddie Eagle, it was more just the teacher drilling that into our heads. I mean, how many times do you need to be told not to touch the hot oven?

Competitive shooting sports would be awesome as part of PE, but it's not likely to occur in Oregon, and is also a completely different bill requiring funding.

 

[MxOverkill]

Competitive shooting sports would be awesome as part of PE, but it's not likely to occur in Oregon, and is also a completely different bill requiring funding.

Actually, competitive shooting is offered as an extra-curricular activity in Oregon high schools.

 

[deadeye]

I just noticed.... or am I wrong.... the OP replaced all the "*'s" and reposted comments?

Worth a second look for those of us that came into it late and a bit lost on the first few pages.

I fixed it

 

[Flymph]

Actually, competitive shooting is offered as an extra-curricular activity in Oregon high schools.

Well the range under "Madison" is just a dust catch now... so I'm not satisfied!

 

[solv3nt]

I fixed it

So OP did rip and dip.

After additional digging, it appears that OP owns more than just a non-profit. OP also runs gun training, which is wise for taking on this endeavor. This also makes me question things again, cui bono. If this legislation were to pass, will OP be directly compensated monetarily?

 

[jerrbear]

I am also wondering if instead of turning such an important function over to government school employees who are known to be anti-2A and anti-gun, to deliver to our children, perhaps it would be more effective to "drop" a proposal to incentivize parents and families to provide firearm safety to our, their, children instead. Schools" track record currently, for not twisting things to support their agenda, is not so good.

Also, I am wondering about the statement that gun accidents are the 3rd leading cause of child deaths in Oregon. Does this include suicides of older teens; teen on teen murder? Where does this stat come from. What are the two other leading causes of child death?

Yes....I live in MT now. I still have vested interest in OR. I am not being randomly critical. I am interested in your input on these thoughts.

Here here I second that

 

[PiratePast40]

So OP did rip and dip.

After additional digging, it appears that OP owns more than just a non-profit. OP also runs gun training, which is wise for taking on this endeavor. This also makes me question things again, cui bono. If this legislation were to pass, will OP be directly compensated monetarily?

He would most likely profit but so does every instructor. I believe it's a valid endeavor. When you believe in something worthwhile, I believe it's OK to be paid for your time. How else would you compensate teachers? As adults, we know that training costs money and it should.

There is a 4H shooting section and the people that sell ammunition profit.