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@ CarlMc:

I have no right to expect more from anyone, than I can put into the conversation.

I strive to live at 100% potential, all the time. My current issue is a bad right hip, which does not provide the same as yesterday, but it is still 100% for Now.

Philip

Hi Philip, I have bad hips too . I take 15mg of Meloxicam a day. It is an anti inflammatory drug for arthritis and it works great for my hips, shoulders and knees.
Now back on subject. The stupid gene is vary strong in the Oregonian that flipped off the cop. I grew up in Boston and flipping a cop off had unpleasant consequences They would not arrest you they just beat the crap out of you and dump you in the Hospital parking lot. l had a friend who spit on a cop and he spent a week in the Hospital for that judgment call.
 
What a dumb ***...what the hell did he think would happen? Cops are human beings too, and I wouldn't expect too many people to think "Oh, well, not important", when someone flips them off. I don't imagine Loyd Fery would be happy to let it slide if people driving past him flipped him off.

Fery's inability to predict a normal human reaction to his behavior is indicative of his general lack of insight. Actions have consequences...this isn't rocket science.
 
I view cops in a few different classes. A small town sheriff is so much different than a militarized SWAT team. The small town sheriff, for the most part has my undying respect. The only thing that would change that respect would be the actions of the individual, as I respect the position. The militarized SWAT cops of metropolitan areas are something entirely different. They are to intimidate and terrorize. The actions of the individual still matter, but their existence period is a slap in the face of freedom.

No matter, you will never see me flipping off anybody, badge or not. I am always armed and I expect the same of anyone else I encounter on the street. I would never instigate(or respond to, for that matter) a situation that could end in a gunfight to let a stranger know that I don't like them. I also expect everyone else to react the way I would to being flipped off. I couldn't possibly care less, why would a cop or anyone else? It just isn't worth it.
 
It's called Freedom of Speech
Actually it would be a gesture, or some kind of expression, considering 'flipping the bird' does not require vocal chords.
Freedom of Speech - you can't get arrested for that..
Yes you can - depending on the local laws and how it might be interpreted by either the LEO, citizen(s) or the potential ramifications of the 'freedom' you are expressing IE. such as the old scenario of yelling "fire" in a crowded theater - which now could now include other potentially dangerous actions such as yelling "I have a gun".
 
Sorry getting arrested for flipping off the police is not a factor - no crime involved
- It's called Freedom of Speech - you can't get arrested for that..

Incorrect logic in your thinking process !!!!!

YOU can be arrested for Anything, later, a judge ~Might~ decide your innocent !!!!

So back to the OP, a LE vehicle is sitting with LEO driver in it, by itself, there has been no Provocation in this action, or inactivity, however you wish to view it. NEXT, Mr. Gooffy is driving along, sees above, makes a judgement call, and the verdict is Display ones IQ to the LEO. Itdoes not take a rocket scientist, to discern that the LEO is now angry, by his actions, he pulled Mr. Gooffy over, for What Ever Alleged Citatable Cause !!!!

Now comes the Rocket Science: does 2+2 = 5 ???? Y/N ??? Correct answer N.

Next we can play the Shoulda, Woulda, Coulda GAME:

Should a LEO be ~better~ than that ???? Better than what, is my response.

a. Is LEO a human?
b. Did the LEO just come from another near death experiance, and Pulled Over to collect his calmness, and startt the day over, in good repore (sp) with the World in general?
c. Was the LEO on his break, and taking a well deserved rest, after three bad accident scenes in a row, with a Domestic Dispute in the middle of the above?

d. Any other sort of scenario we can dream up thereby, justifying either Mr. Gooffy's actions OR the LEO's actions ???

Every single one of these types of reports, newspaper stories has at least one thing in common, 99 % of the time:

........ We were not there, and so are playing the "what if" games....

philip,
What if the LEO wasn't there, would Mr. gooffy still have a chip on his shoulder ???? In the BoonDocks, I think Yes is the answer....
 
Incorrect logic in your thinking process !!!!!

YOU can be arrested for Anything, later, a judge ~Might~ decide your innocent !!!!

So back to the OP, a LE vehicle is sitting with LEO driver in it, by itself, there has been no Provocation in this action, or inactivity, however you wish to view it. NEXT, Mr. Gooffy is driving along, sees above, makes a judgement call, and the verdict is Display ones IQ to the LEO. Itdoes not take a rocket scientist, to discern that the LEO is now angry, by his actions, he pulled Mr. Gooffy over, for What Ever Alleged Citatable Cause !!!!

Now comes the Rocket Science: does 2+2 = 5 ???? Y/N ??? Correct answer N.

Next we can play the Shoulda, Woulda, Coulda GAME:

Should a LEO be ~better~ than that ???? Better than what, is my response.

a. Is LEO a human?
b. Did the LEO just come from another near death experiance, and Pulled Over to collect his calmness, and startt the day over, in good repore (sp) with the World in general?
c. Was the LEO on his break, and taking a well deserved rest, after three bad accident scenes in a row, with a Domestic Dispute in the middle of the above?

d. Any other sort of scenario we can dream up thereby, justifying either Mr. Gooffy's actions OR the LEO's actions ???

Every single one of these types of reports, newspaper stories has at least one thing in common, 99 % of the time:

........ We were not there, and so are playing the "what if" games....

philip,
What if the LEO wasn't there, would Mr. gooffy still have a chip on his shoulder ???? In the BoonDocks, I think Yes is the answer....

So you're admitting that the rule of law is dead?
 
WHERE, In my post, did you read my saying
the rule of law is dead
?????

Your eyeglasses must be Fogged Up !!!!

So you're admitting that the rule of law is dead?
Please, Do Not Put Words into my writing, that are Not There.

Please, for All us IgNoRant folks here, Define Rule of Law, AS you, YOURSELF define it, do not use a URL link, define it in YOUR TERMS....

I write, I wrote, you redefined... Not my bad.

philip, in the Boondocks. Telling people what they mean is not the same as what you think you read!!!!
 
Actually it would be a gesture, or some kind of expression, considering 'flipping the bird' does not require vocal chords.

Yes you can - depending on the local laws and how it might be interpreted by either the LEO, citizen(s) or the potential ramifications of the 'freedom' you are expressing IE. such as the old scenario of yelling "fire" in a crowded theater - which now could now include other potentially dangerous actions such as yelling "I have a gun".

RV TEch - Sorry but you are totally wrong "flipping the bird" is NOT A Crime in Oregon - never has been,. Big difference between yelling fire and flipping the cops off - IT IS NOT A CRIME IN OREGON - PERIOD !! i spent 33 years in LE So I know what I am talking about..
 
Incorrect logic in your thinking process !!!!!

YOU can be arrested for Anything, later, a judge ~Might~ decide your innocent !!!!

So back to the OP, a LE vehicle is sitting with LEO driver in it, by itself, there has been no Provocation in this action, or inactivity, however you wish to view it. NEXT, Mr. Gooffy is driving along, sees above, makes a judgement call, and the verdict is Display ones IQ to the LEO. Itdoes not take a rocket scientist, to discern that the LEO is now angry, by his actions, he pulled Mr. Gooffy over, for What Ever Alleged Citatable Cause !!!!

Now comes the Rocket Science: does 2+2 = 5 ???? Y/N ??? Correct answer N.

Next we can play the Shoulda, Woulda, Coulda GAME:

Should a LEO be ~better~ than that ???? Better than what, is my response.

a. Is LEO a human?
b. Did the LEO just come from another near death experiance, and Pulled Over to collect his calmness, and startt the day over, in good repore (sp) with the World in general?
c. Was the LEO on his break, and taking a well deserved rest, after three bad accident scenes in a row, with a Domestic Dispute in the middle of the above?

d. Any other sort of scenario we can dream up thereby, justifying either Mr. Gooffy's actions OR the LEO's actions ???

Every single one of these types of reports, newspaper stories has at least one thing in common, 99 % of the time:

........ We were not there, and so are playing the "what if" games....

philip,
What if the LEO wasn't there, would Mr. gooffy still have a chip on his shoulder ???? In the BoonDocks, I think Yes is the answer....

Ok Let me explain it to all you couch lawyers and so called legal experts. First you cannot be arrested for ANYTHING!!! First it must be a crime in the ORS or city or County Ordinance. Arresting someone for something that is not a crime in oRegon will get the Officer and the Dept sued. 2nd - Any traffic Infractions (Not major violations) you cannot be arrested for those either. Flipping a police officer off is NOT CRIME in Oregon. Any normal officer would just wave back and go on his way - just like yelling insults at a police officer is not a crime - not very smart- but not a crime. The Officer must have Probable Cause to pull over a violator - that is you must have committed a traffic violation for the Officer to legally pull you over. The officer cannot just stop a vehicle without Probable Cause. A Low tire is not a violation - not using a turn signal is. The bottom line is if you don't want to interact with the police - obey the law- don't drive like a AH - don't be a wise a$$ - be polite - and you will probably get by with a warning.
 
Python287, first thank you for your years of service.

Second, I hope you can understand, by use of the word anything, I was Not trying to be Literal, but Figurative, a figure of Speech, I further carried that out, saying "What Ever Alleged Citatable Cause". I will stand corrected about the "2nd - Any traffic Infractions (Not major violations) you cannot be arrested for those either" Aspect.

I do stay, with the idea though, that in my above stayement, that you quoted, said LEO might feel inclined to develop a reason to arrest you, if he desires.

More than one LEO has done such, only for the shift Captain to release the detained person... Sometimes offering. Apologies referencing to the officer's lack of reasoning... Sue the PD/SO yes possible, but more often than not, that in itself will create difficulties for the person tryin o take on dotGOV in the form of PD/SO, I know, in my only instance of being angry for a ticket I should not have recieved, and seeing the Officer get away with Perjury, I came to the conclusion, that Court is a Stacked Deck, against citizens, and in Favor of the LEO whose very word Always means MORE than a citizen's word...

Your bottom line is my bottom line as well, we just arrived there from differing view points.

Again thank you, for your service, I count my blessings, of knowing there are many like you, some of whom I know Personally...

philip, its ate in the Boon Docks, even the frogs have gone to sleep, G'night all
 
Cops can always find a reason to stop someone. They can and do lie. I wouldn't antagonize them though,you are asking for retribution and flipping off a deputy apparently caused that.
 
WHERE, In my post, did you read my saying ?????

Your eyeglasses must be Fogged Up !!!!

Please, Do Not Put Words into my writing, that are Not There.

Please, for All us IgNoRant folks here, Define Rule of Law, AS you, YOURSELF define it, do not use a URL link, define it in YOUR TERMS....

I write, I wrote, you redefined... Not my bad.

philip, in the Boondocks. Telling people what they mean is not the same as what you think you read!!!!

You give the LEO a mulligan because he's human and we all make mistakes yet you won't give an out to the citizen who makes a rude gesture in the heat of the moment. You're talking about civility and propriety (and those shouldn't require laws) while giving a break to the side with most of the power in this equation. Sure, realistically its wise not to shake the apple cart unnecessarily but if you do not hold those in power to a higher standard you're creating system ripe for abuse. Trusting a government to uphold liberty and basic rights is a foolish position given human history, especially the last 150-200 years of it.

Which is worse, a rude gesture or stopping someone just to harrass them because they flipped you the bird? We teach people to avoid "road rage" and to "maintain your calm john spartan" but you know, its ok if those in authority lose their cool? They get a break but no one else does? Is that like Congress gets an out of the healthcare act but average joes and janes don't?
 
You give the LEO a mulligan because he's human and we all make mistakes yet you won't give an out to the citizen who makes a rude gesture in the heat of the moment.

The citizen gave the LEO, the bird
"in the heat of the moment."

From where did you arrive there was a "Pyro Technical" moment ??? I did not read such, in the OP, LE vehicle, with driver, at side of the Road Creates PyroTechnical thoughts in Civilian ?????

He needs to limit his coffee consumption, or stop chewing Khat.

Me, and its just me, I see above, I wave at them, a Friendly Gesture, with no ability to mistake same. And I do that for PD/SO vehicles that drive by me, or are next to me in one way traffic, stopped at a Red Light, etc... And also Fire Engines & Para Medic rigs.

..... Sure, realistically its wise not to shake the apple cart unnecessarily .....

You see, I was brought up, to respect THOSE kinds of people, who Risk ~it~ every day. Now mind you, I have been in the Presence of A Few Sour Apples. Had Double Sour Apples pull their weapons on me, for an Ordinary Traffic Violation.... But.... I contend, the Sour Apples are much Fewer than the Good Apples, and GOOD LEO's are as American as Apple Pie !!!!

I deleted the rest of your reply to my reply.... Because, well gee, we have an honest to Goodness difference of Opinion.

My favorite memory, from the Church I left, before attending my present Church, was this:

Wednesday Night Service. A Eugene PD Squad car Pulls up... Driver gets out, his duty gear is on, for, he is On Duty.

But he would take his "Ten Minutes" to BE WITH his family. First: his Five year Old son would see the Doors Open up. He would Run, then Jump into Daddies Arms. Never a miss, always caught, HELD SO TIGHT. Three, four minutes of that, he would set him down, Then & ONLY then, could he greet his Spouse, and hold her Tight. There was no inhibition in their LOVE being showed, it was Out Right in your face, in front of God & everybody, as the saying goes.

Their Marriage will last unless, until, he can not get there, due to being WIA/KIA... Those are the LEO's I know and LOVE.

I actually teased him once, he was illegally parked... I said HEY, I am writing you a TICKET!!!! He knew my LOVE for HIM.... He grinned and said Write it, I need my Ten Minutes in there, pointing To His Family...

And that was not Just the two he loved on, who gave him LOVE, but the entire Family of GOD, who would be present, and seeing True Christian Love, for a family.

I rest my case.

philip,
Boon Docks OREGON
 
I think folks need to understand what "Freedom Of Speech" means. It means you have the right to voice your opinion and your beliefs in general. It does not in any way give anybody the right to harass or threaten. A bomb threat is not freedom of speech. The old "yelling fire in a crowded theater" is not freedom of speech. Insulting, harassing and threatening an individual has no place in freedom of speech. It means you can speak your mind to the government without fear of persecution(at least before the current Prez), not say what you want to who you want.
 
Sorry getting arrested for flipping off the police is not a factor - no crime involved - It's called Freedom of Speech - you can't get arrested for that..
Actually, you are wrong. There are many limits to your freedom of speech and verbally or non-verbally assaulting an officer is one of them. The first amendment only applies to the government limiting your speech.
 
The citizen gave the LEO, the bird

From where did you arrive there was a "Pyro Technical" moment ??? I did not read such, in the OP, LE vehicle, with driver, at side of the Road Creates PyroTechnical thoughts in Civilian ?????

He needs to limit his coffee consumption, or stop chewing Khat.

Me, and its just me, I see above, I wave at them, a Friendly Gesture, with no ability to mistake same. And I do that for PD/SO vehicles that drive by me, or are next to me in one way traffic, stopped at a Red Light, etc... And also Fire Engines & Para Medic rigs.



You see, I was brought up, to respect THOSE kinds of people, who Risk ~it~ every day. Now mind you, I have been in the Presence of A Few Sour Apples. Had Double Sour Apples pull their weapons on me, for an Ordinary Traffic Violation.... But.... I contend, the Sour Apples are much Fewer than the Good Apples, and GOOD LEO's are as American as Apple Pie !!!!

I deleted the rest of your reply to my reply.... Because, well gee, we have an honest to Goodness difference of Opinion.

My favorite memory, from the Church I left, before attending my present Church, was this:

Wednesday Night Service. A Eugene PD Squad car Pulls up... Driver gets out, his duty gear is on, for, he is On Duty.

But he would take his "Ten Minutes" to BE WITH his family. First: his Five year Old son would see the Doors Open up. He would Run, then Jump into Daddies Arms. Never a miss, always caught, HELD SO TIGHT. Three, four minutes of that, he would set him down, Then & ONLY then, could he greet his Spouse, and hold her Tight. There was no inhibition in their LOVE being showed, it was Out Right in your face, in front of God & everybody, as the saying goes.

Their Marriage will last unless, until, he can not get there, due to being WIA/KIA... Those are the LEO's I know and LOVE.

I actually teased him once, he was illegally parked... I said HEY, I am writing you a TICKET!!!! He knew my LOVE for HIM.... He grinned and said Write it, I need my Ten Minutes in there, pointing To His Family...

And that was not Just the two he loved on, who gave him LOVE, but the entire Family of GOD, who would be present, and seeing True Christian Love, for a family.

I rest my case.

philip,
Boon Docks OREGON

That is pretty close to the case with most we know also. You get back what you give them. Actually my first instinct to someone who flips me off is to grab their finger and snap the damn thing off and stuff it down their throat. or worse.
Free speech ....... sure, but be prepared for the consequences of rude free speech. Action gets reaction in kind generally. That is human nature. I have tried to stay out of this, but finally some common sense evolved. :s0155:

_______________________________
At my age I shoot forward a lot better than I run backward.
Rearward movement is only used for a forward Advantage and better sight alignment !
 
I think folks need to understand what "Freedom Of Speech" means. It means you have the right to voice your opinion and your beliefs in general. It does not in any way give anybody the right to harass or threaten. A bomb threat is not freedom of speech. The old "yelling fire in a crowded theater" is not freedom of speech. Insulting, harassing and threatening an individual has no place in freedom of speech. It means you can speak your mind to the government without fear of persecution(at least before the current Prez), not say what you want to who you want.

And again common sense evolves.
:s0155::s0155::s0155::s0155::s0155:

I have many dislikes about LE, for some things they do or do not do, but you need to remember, they live with the worst side of life and it has an effect on their perceptions, but most of my gripes are about not doing enough to quench gang activity in the cities. that could have been stopped long ago.
Most rural or small town LE live where they work and are respectful of their community.
There are some bad ones, but most give back what you give them.
Mistrustful of some...definitely, but respectful of most.
Sure, flipping one off is free speech, but with that, you best be ready to get a reaction back that will most likely be unpleasant. At least the idiot has his finger still attached.

_______________________________
At my age I shoot forward a lot better than I run backward.
Rearward movement is only used for a forward Advantage and better sight alignment !
 

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