Oregon Oregon DOJ requests delay in some Ballot 114 provisions.

[PiratePast40]

More questions keep popping up. I'm going to stick my neck out and say it probably doesn't matter what questions we have, the decisions will be made higher up anyway.

Sort of like elephants mating. It happens way above our heads, there is a lot of weight being slung around, and lots of trumpeting and stomping accompanies the process.

 

[Camelfilter]

So, the States Attorney bold faced lied to the judge. In open court. When he said the state was ready on the 8th (and was about laughed out by the gallery).

Is it not a crime for an attorney to lie to a judge, in court session?

 

[nehalemguy]

So, the States Attorney bold faced lied to the judge. In open court. When he said the state was ready on the 8th (and was about laughed out by the gallery).

Is it not a crime for an attorney to lie to a judge, in court session?

Understand what he actually said.

He stated in court that Oregonians will have the ability to apply for a permit to purchase a gun on Dec. 8, not that they were ready to start actually issuing permits. OSP still plans to have some BS application uploaded to their website on Thursday. What they don't have is a system in place to then process that application into a permit. Asking for an extension is their acknowledgement that their piece of paper BS application is meaningless.

-E-

 

[dinky450]

So, the States Attorney bold faced lied to the judge. In open court. When he said the state was ready on the 8th (and was about laughed out by the gallery).

Is it not a crime for an attorney to lie to a judge, in court session?

Yeah if I was a judge I wouldn't tolerate the AG. First your going to certify a law to go in effect 30days after election instead of January. Then your going to come to the hearing and argue your case of we have the system are ready...... Now ask to keep the rest of the measure in place for the 8th but we have until February to have permits 100% in place. Sounds like a wishy washy argument full of bullbubblegum lies.

 

[Yarome]

Yeah if I was a judge I wouldn't tolerate the AG. First your going to certify a law to go in effect 30days after election instead of January. Then your going to come to the hearing and argue your case of we have the system are ready...... Now ask to keep the rest of the measure in place for the 8th but we have until February to have permits 100% in place. Sounds like a wishy washy argument full of bullbubblegum lies.

...not to mention... the AG couldn't actually be bothered to show up for oral arguments before a Federal judge on one of the most restrictive and important gun measures across the entire US. Send your assistant... that'll do!

Meh.....

 

[PiratePast40]

On Friday, the judge asked about "all the deaths caused by delay of 114" as put forward by the defense. This makes the question more important, especially since the defense pointed out all the firearms sold in the days leading up to December 8th.

I don't see how it's possible for the judge to enjoin any of the complaints, nor make a decision on the states' request without having all parties present and able to comment. I suppose that could be done by remote sometime today but that seems rather bizarre.

The state did all of this to themselves, starting with the measure being allowed to be on the ballot, to Fagan's declaration that it take affect on the 8th, to the arrogance of the state in this latest request to delay.

 

[dinky450]

...not to mention... the AG couldn't actually be bothered to show up for oral arguments before a Federal judge on one of the most restrictive and important gun measures across the entire US. Send your assistant... that'll do!

Meh.....

Yep straight up garbage. Hopefully the judge sees it for what it is and smashed the hammer in her face..... I mean give a injunction.

 

[dinky450]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/perjury

 

[ELRShooter]

So, the States Attorney bold faced lied to the judge. In open court. When he said the state was ready on the 8th (and was about laughed out by the gallery).

Is it not a crime for an attorney to lie to a judge, in court session?

Thus the letter. This is the way to "clean up" the lie. I am writing today "in light of new information". "Local law enforcement partners have made it clear they won't be ready." We had no idea judge..... Yeah, right.

Its garbage, they just realized they were going to get called on it and look bad so this is how they cleaned it up.

 

[PiratePast40]

IMO, the best thing that can happen is for the judge to recognize the validity of the injunction based on the states request and say F no to the delay and yes to the injunction. The AG just proved that an injunction is justified. If the state wanted a delay, they had the power to do it weeks ago and decided to play the arrogant bubblegum card instead.

 

[PiratePast40]

Since the AG is arguing that the measure itself is three different topics, is that considered testimony? If so, it is an admission that the measure, under Oregon law, should never have been on the ballot in the first place.

 

[Jay Walk]

In the meantime, enjoy your gun purchases.
Ten rounds or less that is.

 

[nammac]

Since the AG is arguing that the measure itself is three different topics, is that considered testimony? If so, it is an admission that the measure, under Oregon law, should never have been on the ballot in the first place.

Would love to see the judge toss it all as unconstitutional. Adding the presentation of the BM was in direct violation of established Oregon Election Laws. One topic per ballot measure…. SOS screwed the pooch multiple times on this one…

 

[fmvolume86]

This is all a trap and come on , they've been playing this game in NY and CA. They know what they 're doing and they keep lawyering the crap out of it to push down the can. I have no faith this judge will put in an injunction and will just play along with this infringment. There are no consequences to publicly elected officials who continue to violate US Constitution.... ZERO reprucussions for their actions so they continue to do it. Imagine if we fired or reprimanded officials who entertained ANY violatoin of the constitution. Can you imagine if they had put "Permit to free speech" on the ballot all because some citizens got signatures ????

 

[RedRover]

Would love to see the judge toss it all as unconstitutional. Adding the presentation of the BM was in direct violation of established Oregon Election Laws. One topic per ballot measure…. SOS screwed the pooch multiple times on this one…

There have been multiple (voter passed)ballot measures across the country that have been struck down by the courts in recent history due to violation of 'single subject' rules; including here in Oregon.

Among the most notable:
Measure 40 - Armatta v. Kitzhaber
Measure 7 - League of Oregon Cities v. Bradbury


Oregon Constitution
Article IV Section 1 (2)(d) An initiative petition shall include the full text of the proposed law or amendment to the Constitution. A proposed law or amendment to the Constitution shall embrace one subject only and matters properly connected therewith.

Oregon Secretary of State, Elections Division
Rule 165-014-0028
Review of Proposed Initiative Measures for Procedural Constitutional Compliance
(1) The Secretary of State will review a proposed initiative measure submitted under the authority of Article IV, section 1 of the Oregon Constitution and ORS 250.045 (Prospective petition) to determine if it complies with the procedural requirements established in the Oregon Constitution for initiative petitions. This review will include, but not necessarily be limited to, whether a proposed initiative measure: "embraces one subject only and matters properly connected therewith," constitutes an "amendment" to the constitution, or proposes a single amendment to the Constitution or separate amendments that must be submitted separately. The Secretary will not review any prospective petition for substantive constitutional or legal sufficiency.


Of course, the petitioners might argue that the measure's lone subject is: "Gun Safety"...

The fact that there may exist voters that might approve of mag restrictions, but not the permitting process (or vice-versa); is enough to conclude that Measure 114 was a multi-subject measure.

I'm surprised that a motion for a summary judgment based on this obvious violation of the Oregon Constitution hasn't been filed for this measure.

 

[156256Hunter]

IMO, the best thing that can happen is for the judge to recognize the validity of the injunction based on the states request and say F no to the delay and yes to the injunction. The AG just proved that an injunction is justified. If the state wanted a delay, they had the power to do it weeks ago and decided to play the arrogant bubblegum card instead.

Maybe the State was playing a game of chicken with itself -- lots of coms between the AG and OSP, maybe with OSP saying, sure, "we can have a donwloadable permit applicaiton on our website by the 8th".

And then maybe something happened on OSP end (e.g., lack of agreement on what should be in the application form), or OSP told the AG on a zoom call (so there's no written record), hey, any applications probably won't get approved for a long time, you should have asked the other "stakeholders" (county sheriffs) before arguing "gun safety for all" to the Court.

Also, I really hope these plaintiffs are asking the State to save all information that could be discoverable, including Zoom meetings, notes etc.

 

[156256Hunter]

Right - https://www.doj.state.or.us/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/ag_letter_to_the_court_114_ecf_34.pdf

Although 2 months is not specified, but

We'll know more Tuesday.

Wait, if I click on this link to the DOJ's website then will the DOJ knew my username and IP address?

 

[CZP07]

I wonder. Should the judge grant the Injunction (or much less likely overturn the measure as unconstitutional) just how much rioting will occur by our peace loving friends on the left (are their any statues in portland left to topple)?. And what the great and just comrades in the senate judiciary will come up with thursday.

 

[Jade Falcon]

No chance the permitting process is active by February, they just think letting sales continue will let the public outrage die down a bit and potentially give the judge an opening to dismiss. Ill conceived and badly written, don't we all by now believe this unconstitutional bill has one main purpose? The Leftists need the necessary protocol to remain stillborn and non-functional to prevent ANY gun sales in Oregon, thereby forcing all gun stores out of business and the sporting goods/department store chains to reallocate square footage to non firearm inventory. Families lose their businesses and employees lose jobs. And cars, and houses.
Again our socialist state gov attacks the average family (not the 'Keep Portland Weird' crowd of course, just normal people) to push a tyrannical agenda. NO MORE MAIL IN VOTING! IMPLEMENT A STATEWIDE COUNTY ELECTORAL COLLEGE!
Please.
Do it to leave a better world for the children. And Keith Richards.

I've already decided I'm not going to stick around. The nutbags and control freaks can have this state. I'm going to spend the next 5 to 6 months at most saving up to get my CDL, then I'm going to look for jobs in Idaho and then move. I probably won't have any money, but at least I'll have something to work with. F- this state.

 

[156256Hunter]

Even with 2 months... it aint gonna happen. It will take them longer than that just to get he appropriate funding for the permit system. Then personnel hiring/training and reviewing potential courses for certifications... They're dreaming!

True, sounds the AG arguing that in two months the the permit application "process" will be GTG (the presumably electronic system for which they OSP said they need to "design and implement"), but doesn't take into account before then that some "appropriate" training needs to be available (and completed) for the application to be "complete".

So before then (or July, whenever the State gets around to having a viable, bug free system in place), people need to find out what training is approved, they need to sign up for that training (and hope there's not a three month backlog), attend training and receive certification, then include that in the permit application. How long will that take?

We should assume that even by February, no one will be able to submit a "complete" permit application.