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Oregon CHL question on "no firearms" posted businesses

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Botte Hork, Sep 5, 2012.

  1. Botte Hork

    Botte Hork Camas WA Well-Known Member

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    A quickie on OR. I have understood that in WA the signs have little legal meaning, they can ask you to leave and you can get charged with misdemeanor trespassing if you don't comply. How does it work for OR? Assuming one is carrying concealed and has a valid CHL, all the paperwork and other legal status stuff is fine. Can one go into a shop which has some form of "no weapons" postings on the door? Are the legal ramifications similar as in WA?

    Thanks for any pointers/hints!
     
  2. accessbob

    accessbob Molalla, OR 2A Supporter

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    same as in Washington.

    Sent from my LG Optimus Elite using Tapatalk 2
     
  3. Botte Hork

    Botte Hork Camas WA Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. Do you know the ORS numbers (or number range) I should consult? I'm pretty well in touch with the WA RCW's, but Oregon is something I need to look into more.
     
  4. drew

    drew OR Well-Known Member

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    164.265 Criminal trespass while in possession of a firearm and 164.205 for definitions.
     
  5. Botte Hork

    Botte Hork Camas WA Well-Known Member

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    Thank you Drew, very helpful. The 164.265 section is nice and brief, and 164.205.3 covers the specific definitions (most notably 3b).
     
  6. Darknight

    Darknight Salem Active Member

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    This directly from the Washington County Sheriff's Office website (Vol_8 Issue_8-August, 2012)


    Concealed Carry - Your Questions Answered


    Can a CHL holder carry in theaters, malls or other public venues that are privately owned?
    If the location is open to the public but privately owned and has posted a firearms prohibition, you may not carry concealed. Try to call ahead or check their website before taking your firearm with you to avoid the dilemma of what to do with your firearm. Securing it in your vehicle is not a safe alternative, as cars are vulnerable to theft. Many people purchase locking cases that can mount securely in the vehicle.

    Other places you cannot carry concealed . . .
    Oregon law provides very few limits on where a person with a Concealed Handgun License (CHL) can carry a firearm, and federal laws contain a few more prohibitions. Even if you have a Concealed Handgun License, you cannot carry a firearm on any of the following properties:
    •Federal buildings
    •Court facilities
    •Indian lands unless by tribal permission; this may also apply to certain casinos on Indian lands
    •Secure areas of airports
    •Social Security offices
    •Posted private property where the owner prohibits firearms
    For more information, read ORS 166.370.
     
  7. fd15k

    fd15k Tigard,OR Well-Known Member

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    Except it's not the law, and they should make it clear that it is their recommendation.
     
  8. Dan-Dee Sales Inc

    Dan-Dee Sales Inc Sweet Home, Oregon, United States Active Member

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    This will always go down the wrong road. IF you walk into a business that has a sign posted "NO FIREARMS" and they catch you, they ask you to leave. If you do not, they call the Police and charge you. Keep the weapon hidden and nobody gets in trouble.
     
  9. Tangent123123

    Tangent123123 Battle Ground Active Member

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    Concealed is concealed. If you do it right they'll never notice. If they do ask you to leave, don't be an bubblegum and kick up a stink. Just take your business elsewhere.
     
  10. Botte Hork

    Botte Hork Camas WA Well-Known Member

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    Of course. My question was more about knowing how much weight the sign has initially. A lot of them are in places where they're not easy to notice and one might overlook it upon entry. It'll go fine most of the times, but I wouldn't want to get in trouble in case the gun prints unintentionally.
     
  11. Dan-Dee Sales Inc

    Dan-Dee Sales Inc Sweet Home, Oregon, United States Active Member

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    I know some people that have been asked to leave but nobody that has been arrested or ticketed.
     
    fd15k and (deleted member) like this.
  12. fd15k

    fd15k Tigard,OR Well-Known Member

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    That's a good question, and it comes up here several times a year :) Those signs carry no legal weight in the state of Oregon. Just keep in mind that sometimes Post Offices can be located in places like shopping malls, and similar signs can be seen there - no carry allowed on Post Office property. Same goes for court houses - they sometimes occupy only parts of certain public buildings, and carry is not allowed in those parts of the buildings.
     
  13. Darknight

    Darknight Salem Active Member

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    In your opinion.
     
  14. Darknight

    Darknight Salem Active Member

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    POST OFFICES:

    Section 232.1(l) states:

    Weapons and explosives. No person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes.


    The Gun Zone RKBA -- 39 CFR 232.1

    Official purposes would include mailing a firearm, which is legal, so there is exceptions.
     
  15. fd15k

    fd15k Tigard,OR Well-Known Member

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    Not sure what part of my statement caught your attention. That there is no law setting legal status of such signs, or that officers of the law should not make up laws. Feel free to clarify.

    My understanding is that this thread was about

    a) carrying a firearm for self-defense
    b) that firearm being a handgun

    So for word police I will clarify : carrying of handguns for self-defense on USPS property is prohibited, CHL or not, whether a sign is posted or not.

    For more information on the subject see Bonidity v. Postal Service which is currently being litigated :
    http://archive.recapthelaw.org/cod/122068/
     
  16. Dan-Dee Sales Inc

    Dan-Dee Sales Inc Sweet Home, Oregon, United States Active Member

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    The Post Office is Federal Land. :( no guns
    and the only people allowed to mail a Firearm are FFL holders.
     
  17. fd15k

    fd15k Tigard,OR Well-Known Member

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    You have to be an FFL (collectors are an open question) to mail a handgun. Anybody can mail a long gun.

    Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?

    A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

    [18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]

    http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html
     
  18. Darknight

    Darknight Salem Active Member

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    This part might be important to the hunters on this forum:

    Q: May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?

    Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.
     
  19. Darknight

    Darknight Salem Active Member

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  20. Botte Hork

    Botte Hork Camas WA Well-Known Member

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    I think the essence lies in the meaning of "lawfully directed". I've done a little googling and didn't come up with much (reading jurisprudence in English is still challenging, but I'm getting more used to the style of language used :)), but I think we can safely assume that being verbally instructed by someone in charge falls under it. If a sign falls under it, I would expect that sign to have to comply with regulations describing size, symbols, text and location. As long as that's not the case, I think it'll take a mediocre freshman summer law school intern to push back on your ambitious ADA. ;)

    A week ago or so I went to Ikea (the horror!), which has a sign with a traffic-style symbol (handgun, red circle around it, red diagonal line through handgun) and the text "weapon free zone", or something along those lines. Does it mean they don't want to take a handgun inside (what about my pocket knife?)? Or do they just want to say they don't have any weapons in the building?