Oregon CHL for permanent resident aliens

[Botte Hork]

....No, not the green types with the big heads, although I have a big head and a green card.

I'm reading up on a ton of different info around handguns and as I live close to Oregon (Clark county), I was reading up on their requirements for a CHL. The WA CCW permit is pretty simple, but Oregon has the requirement that one has to be either a US citizen or a permanent legal resident alien (greencard holder) with the USCIS-documented intent to naturalize (Form N-300).

For most greencard holders that's not the biggest issue. I see my future in the US, I'm very happy here, but many countries will allow dual citizenship. My country only allows it for a few special circumstances, and I don't fit there. "So?" you might say, "Why not just fill out the damn forms and be done with it?".

There are multiple reasons.
1) In case at some point I decide to not naturalize, I'm in a way lying to the government. This is something I am not comfortable with.
2) The procedure actually provides limited legal value (which somewhat contradicts point 1, because I still see it as lying). It can be required for some business by some states, the OR CHL being one of them, it's not needed for naturalization.
3) From my understanding of a fairly big doc I read online from some legal resource (which I haven't been able to find again), the guidelines internally in USCIS are unclear on the "approval" process. Interestingly enough, it can also not be found in the processing time overviews on the USCIS site.
4) It costs $250 to submit!


It is however part of state law, see ORS 166.291 1(a)(B), so there's no way around it. Unless, and here's the point to this rambling, there's legislation being worked on in the Oregon legal and political machineries that relieve the requirement for intent. As I don't know, is anybody aware of anything like this going on? Sadly I can't vote unless I become a citizen, so I'm not one of the people getting much attention from politicians.

Again, I want to emphasize that it is NOT my intention to do anything illegal, I want to see what is going on in upcoming legislation, if anything. Thanks for taking the time to read.

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[Botte Hork]

As an alternative I just thought of, is Oregon in discussion with other states regarding reciprocity? That could be a solution as well.

 

[Bravo4]

I'm not an expert, but here is a website that in case you haven't visited has info and contact e-mail that might answer your questions about Oregon CHL: Oregon Firearms Federation - CHL Central

 

[hermannr]

As an alternative I just thought of, is Oregon in discussion with other states regarding reciprocity? That could be a solution as well.

Oregon needs to change a few state senators before any kind of reciprocity will happen...or the US Supreme court and or congress needs to change something first. That just is not happening right now.


Actually, their requirement in .291 is unconstitutional, there have been several court cases, particularly back east, but the forced WA to change their legal alien possession laws too...that say that requirement cannot be made if a person is in the country and state legally. I would suggest you contact the 2A Foundation in Bellevue, WA and ask them what you can do. These are the little things they like to pick off, because they are realtively easy and sure. They are here: Second Amendment Foundation Online. Be polite, and just ask them what you can do, ok?

 

[fd15k]

My country only allows it for a few special circumstances, and I don't fit there.

If it's not too big of a secret, what country is that ?

 

[Botte Hork]

Bravo, thanks for the link.

Thank you too Hermannr, I'll contact them. From what I read the requirement for an "alien firearm license" is no longer there in WA, which simplifies matters greatly on this side of the stateline for me.

fd15k: That would be the Netherlands. Dual citizenship is mostly only allowed through birth and when the "other" nationality is "forced" (at least, that's the vague-ish explanation I read a few years ago). There are apparently some options that I'll explore further. The reason for my hesitation, at least at this moment, in giving up Dutch citizenship is that it allows me for easier travels in the EU, as well as being able to move back in case that would be necessary.

All those considerations might change over the next 4.5 years, as I'll become eligible for naturalization then.

In the mean time I read that the N-300 actually has no implications in "forcing" myself to naturalization. I was browsing some of the OR sheriffs' sites and one (don't remember which now...) said that if you filed the N-300 and then didn't do it, they'd come after you. Only one county said that, others don't even allow for non-citizens (can counties do that?) and maybe the more pro-gun sheriffs (like Grant county's) wouldn't care about it, as long as I fit the minimal legal requirements.

Although I can imagine it raises eyebrows in a few decades if I still show up with a greencard and a moldy 30 year old intent-to-naturalize form to renew the chl. We'll see, the situation can change a lot, either personally or the law.

 

[hermannr]

Bravo, thanks for the link.

Thank you too Hermannr, I'll contact them. From what I read the requirement for an "alien firearm license" is no longer there in WA, which simplifies matters greatly on this side of the stateline for me.

fd15k: That would be the Netherlands. Dual citizenship is mostly only allowed through birth and when the "other" nationality is "forced" (at least, that's the vague-ish explanation I read a few years ago). There are apparently some options that I'll explore further. The reason for my hesitation, at least at this moment, in giving up Dutch citizenship is that it allows me for easier travels in the EU, as well as being able to move back in case that would be necessary.

All those considerations might change over the next 4.5 years, as I'll become eligible for naturalization then.

In the mean time I read that the N-300 actually has no implications in "forcing" myself to naturalization. I was browsing some of the OR sheriffs' sites and one (don't remember which now...) said that if you filed the N-300 and then didn't do it, they'd come after you. Only one county said that, others don't even allow for non-citizens (can counties do that?) and maybe the more pro-gun sheriffs (like Grant county's) wouldn't care about it, as long as I fit the minimal legal requirements.

Although I can imagine it raises eyebrows in a few decades if I still show up with a greencard and a moldy 30 year old intent-to-naturalize form to renew the chl. We'll see, the situation can change a lot, either personally or the law.

You can thank the second ammendment foundation for that chnage in WA state law...they took WA to court and forced the issue. I gave up my green card and became a citizen back in 1970.

 

[Botte Hork]

From my understanding of WA laws only non-immigrant aliens need an alien firearm license. As that doesn't apply to me, RCW 9.41.070 says in section (4):

A person who is not a citizen of the United States shall, if applicable, meet the additional requirements of RCW 9.41.173 and produce proof of compliance with RCW 9.41.173 upon application.

The "if applicable" is quoted below and the proof of compliance is then generated by my non-US passport in combination with a valid I-551 (greencard).

Sections 1 and 2 of RCW 9.41.173 speak about the type of alien, both refer to non-immigrant aliens only:

(1) In order to obtain an alien firearm license, a nonimmigrant alien residing in Washington must apply to the sheriff of the county in which he or she resides.

(2) The sheriff of the county shall within sixty days after the filing of an application of a nonimmigrant alien residing in the state of Washington, issue an alien firearm license to such person to carry or possess a firearm for the purposes of hunting and sport shooting.

That seems to not apply to me, so by having a valid greencard I would think I comply with the current regulations.


From what I gathered, the rules have changed a fair bit over the years, making it a bit easier now. I can understand just going for citizenship. I might anyway, but that's something I can't do for quite a few years.



Interestingly, section 7 of 9.41.173 (linked above) seems to explicitly forbid local counties to tighten the alien firearms rules further.

edit: The 2A foundation seems like a good organization to support, looks like they focus exclusively on legal issues and getting laws changed.

 

[hermannr]

For WA you only need your Drivers license and green card, Just apply for a normal license under RCW 9.41.070, there is no citizenship requirement in WA...not since 2009

 

[Botte Hork]

True, but who knows what might happen in the future. From a 2A point of view the path to full citizenship is probably a safer bet than staying in the permanent residency phase.

 

[fd15k]

True, but who knows what might happen in the future. From a 2A point of view the path to full citizenship is probably a safer bet than staying in the permanent residency phase.

Citizenship is safer from all points of view - permanent residents are not guaranteed re-entry into the country. It might be an option to go for US citizenship giving up the Dutch one, and getting permanent residency (or even restoring the citizenship) in Netherlands if you need it some time in the future. Your travels in the EU will not be affected - US citizens enjoy full access to EU/Schengen without a visa.

 

[chariot13]

First off the CHL is a ban upon your freedom. It says you must come do as i say (infringe) to obtain. Freedom is being born into a free country as a lucky star at best. Being told you need to come sign in and check out for this priviledge (permit) is Not a right but a priviledge.

 

[fd15k]

First off the CHL is a ban upon your freedom. It says you must come do as i say (infringe) to obtain. Freedom is being born into a free country as a lucky star at best. Being told you need to come sign in and check out for this priviledge (permit) is Not a right but a priviledge.

I'm sorry Sir, you are speaking from the dreamworld perspective. Please read the Scalia thread about regulation of firearms.

 

[Botte Hork]

Citizenship is safer from all points of view - permanent residents are not guaranteed re-entry into the country. It might be an option to go for US citizenship giving up the Dutch one, and getting permanent residency (or even restoring the citizenship) in Netherlands if you need it some time in the future. Your travels in the EU will not be affected - US citizens enjoy full access to EU/Schengen without a visa.

True, in the "good times" the greencard gives me mostly the same rights as citizenship, but there are many subtleties and not-so-subtleties that distinguish the two from each other. From what I understood there could be a way into not having to give up the Dutch one, but that's apparently not a very clear process. Worth investigating of course. The main benefit would be that I now have the option to move to any EU (or Schengen, not sure) country. I do have an official status in Sweden, having lived/worked there, so that might actually be an EU backdoor too.

For some this might sound pseudo-treacherous, but like a pension plan, it's never smart to bet on a single horse.

First off the CHL is a ban upon your freedom. It says you must come do as i say (infringe) to obtain. Freedom is being born into a free country as a lucky star at best. Being told you need to come sign in and check out for this priviledge (permit) is Not a right but a priviledge.

Fair enough, I understand the sentiments that the CCW system is a limit on the right to bear arms, but by not obtaining one we'd get in some serious trouble if caught, and in case of non-citizens I would expect deportation not being far away. That's a path I'd rather not venture. I hope you understand.