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Oregon celebrates 4th, gun to your head, needle in your arm...

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by 7SFCW4, Jun 27, 2014.

  1. 7SFCW4

    7SFCW4 Out and About, Oregon Active Member

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  2. Joe13

    Joe13 NW of Vancouver Opinionated & Blunt Bronze Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    I'm glad I live in WA. That's really messed up. Unfortunately I can believe it.
     
  3. PiratePast40

    PiratePast40 Willamette Valley Well-Known Member

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    Not sure about the legality. There is a statement that you sign when getting your drivers license that refusal will result in suspension. How do they get away with a warrant to force you to take a test?

    Again, we have current laws on the books, why do we need to continue with the "do something, even if it's wrong" policy?
     
  4. Martini_Up

    Martini_Up NW USA Well-Known Member

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    of course they are. we can all see the direction we are going as a country. the only thing surprising is if anyone is surprised.
     
  5. RicInOR

    RicInOR Washington County Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    When I first saw this I thought "check points" for all drivers.
    But reading thru, I think this is if you are stopped for suspicion of driving under the influence.
    Yet the work CheckPoint is in both stories.
     
  6. solv3nt

    solv3nt Portland Well-Known Member

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    Driving in Oregon is a privilege, not a right. One of the items that you agree to when you are issued an ODL, is that you are consenting to a breath test when asked for by a police officer. Failure to comply is grounds for an immediate one year suspension of your driving privileges. Also, failing to comply can lead to your arrest, where it is much easier for the police to get a warrant for your BAC.
     
    soberups likes this.
  7. 7SFCW4

    7SFCW4 Out and About, Oregon Active Member

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    Well, well, well....that solves the problem! Driving is now a privilege, handed out like cookies by the state for well behaved wage slaves. Just like paying a 50% increase in water rates to fund Sam Adams free school program for his favorite children (kind of scary coming from a pedophile, but...)...privilege is so....well, much of a privilege...I feel better already!
     
  8. solv3nt

    solv3nt Portland Well-Known Member

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    Mmmmmm... Coooooookies....
     
    PORSCHE928S4 likes this.
  9. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    driving has always been a privilege in Oregon its always been like this there's nothing new here
     
    JRuby, soberups, ogre and 1 other person like this.
  10. Chee-to

    Chee-to Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I delete all my cooooookies....
    th?id=HN.608017234433279271&w=207&h=207&c=8&pid=3.1&qlt=90&rm=2
     
  11. John H

    John H Whatcom County Well-Known Member

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    WHY?? Same applies here. If you refuse a breath test, then they take you downtown for a blood test.
     
  12. Dayu

    Dayu Lower Columbia Basin Member

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    Doesn't the officer have to have, you know, "probable cause" to stop someone for a crime. DUI is a crime, after all, you know.

    You might want to brush up on your criminal law a bit before offering legal advice on a forum. Just sayin'.
     
  13. Joe13

    Joe13 NW of Vancouver Opinionated & Blunt Bronze Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    Interesting, I did not know that.

    Shows how many times I've been asked to blow (0...);)

    I did know they can suspend your license but I didn't know they could force you into a blood test.


    I think I'll just stay sober
     
  14. 1337BaldEagle

    1337BaldEagle Earth Active Member

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    I would just like to point out that I think this is a gross overstep.

    But I feel that it needs more clarification:

    The agreement with the DMV and the forced blood draw is 2 totally different processes. The only thing that makes this "legal" is that they are investigating you for drunk driving and they have "reasonable suspension" that you committed a crime. What I'm saying is the precedent they are using has no bearing on if you refuse a breathalyzer. They could try to get a warrant for a forced blood draw without a refusal to blow from you.

    The problem with these kinds of precedents is there is no limit. It is left up to the officer to "articulate" what they think is reasonable. Then you go before a judge and they say "yes or no" but by that time it's too late your rights have already been violated just because an officer is willing to push it for a conviction rate.

    I know it can be frustrating seeing the deaths of drunk driving but we really got to take a look at the consequences for allowing this kind of "public safety."




    Eagle
     
  15. solv3nt

    solv3nt Portland Well-Known Member

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    1) That wasn't legal advice.

    2) That was straight from the Oregon Driving manual, not copy paste; here's the copy paste:
    Oregon’s Implied Consent Law
    This law means that by driving a motor vehicle you have implied that
    you will consent to a breath, blood, or urine test, if a police officer asks you
    to take such a test. The officer may ask you to take a test if the officer has
    arrested you for driving under the influence of intoxicants (DUII).
    If you fail or refuse to take a test, DMV will suspend your driving
    privileges. A DMV implied consent suspension is separate from any
    suspension you may receive as a result of a DUII conviction. In addition
    to a DMV suspension and citation for DUII, a police officer may cite you
    for refusing a breath or urine test. A conviction for refusing a test may
    result in a fine of $650.
    http://www.odot.state.or.us/forms/dmv/37.pdf

    3) Here's the actual law:
    https://www.oregonlegislature.gov/bills_laws/lawsstatutes/2013ors813.html
    813.100 Implied consent to breath or blood test; confiscation of license upon refusal or failure of test.
    (1) Any person who operates a motor vehicle upon premises open to the public or the highways of this state shall be deemed to have given consent, subject to the implied consent law, to a chemical test of the person’s breath, or of the person’s blood if the person is receiving medical care in a health care facility immediately after a motor vehicle accident, for the purpose of determining the alcoholic content of the person’s blood if the person is arrested for driving a motor vehicle while under the influence of intoxicants in violation of ORS 813.010 or of a municipal ordinance. A test shall be administered upon the request of a police officer having reasonable grounds to believe the person arrested to have been driving while under the influence of intoxicants in violation of ORS 813.010 or of a municipal ordinance. Before the test is administered the person requested to take the test shall be informed of consequences and rights as described under ORS 813.130.
    (2) No chemical test of the person’s breath or blood shall be given, under subsection (1) of this section, to a person under arrest for driving a motor vehicle while under the influence of intoxicants in violation of ORS 813.010 or of a municipal ordinance, if the person refuses the request of a police officer to submit to the chemical test after the person has been informed of consequences and rights as described under ORS 813.130.

    (3) If a person refuses to take a test under this section or if a breath test under this section discloses that the person, at the time of the test, had a level of alcohol in the person’s blood that constitutes being under the influence of intoxicating liquor under ORS 813.300, the person’s driving privileges are subject to suspension under ORS 813.410 and the police officer shall do all of the following:

    (a) Immediately take custody of any driver license or permit issued by this state to the person to grant driving privileges.

    (b) Provide the person with a written notice of intent to suspend, on forms prepared and provided by the Department of Transportation. The written notice shall inform the person of consequences and rights as described under ORS 813.130.

    (c) If the person qualifies under ORS 813.110, issue to the person, on behalf of the department, a temporary driving permit described under ORS 813.110.

    (d) Within a period of time required by the department by rule, report action taken under this section to the department and prepare and cause to be delivered to the department a report as described in ORS 813.120, along with the confiscated license or permit and a copy of the notice of intent to suspend.

    (4) If a blood test under this section discloses that the person, at the time of the test, had a level of alcohol in the person’s blood that constitutes being under the influence of intoxicating liquor under ORS 813.300, the person’s driving privileges are subject to suspension under ORS 813.410 and the police officer shall report to the department within 45 days of the date of arrest that the person failed the blood test.

    (5) Nothing in this section precludes a police officer from obtaining a chemical test of the person’s breath or blood through any lawful means for use as evidence in a criminal or civil proceeding including, but not limited to, obtaining a search warrant. [1983 c.338 §591; 1985 c.16 §298; 1985 c.672 §19; 1993 c.305 §1; 1995 c.568 §1; 2013 c.642 §1]

    4) Here's the suspension information:
    http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/DMV/docs/form/oregon_suspension_guide.pdf

    5) Here's a list of your rights as a driver in Oregon with regards to DUII's:
    https://www.oregonlegislature.gov/bills_laws/lawsstatutes/2013ors813.html
    813.130 Rights of and consequences for person asked to take test. This section establishes the requirements for information about rights and consequences for purposes of ORS 813.100 and 813.410. The following apply to the information about rights and consequences:
    (1) The information about rights and consequences shall be substantially in the form prepared by the Department of Transportation. The department may establish any form it determines appropriate and convenient.

    (2) The information about rights and consequences shall be substantially as follows:

    (a) Driving under the influence of intoxicants is a crime in Oregon, and the person is subject to criminal penalties if a test under ORS 813.100 shows that the person is under the influence of intoxicants. If the person refuses a test or fails, evidence of the refusal or failure may also be offered against the person.

    (b) The person will fail a test under ORS 813.100 for purposes of criminal penalties if the test discloses a blood alcohol content of 0.08 percent or more by weight. The person will fail a test for purposes of the Motorist Implied Consent Law if the test discloses a blood alcohol content of:

    (A) 0.08 percent or more by weight if the person was not driving a commercial motor vehicle;

    (B) 0.04 percent or more by weight if the person was driving a commercial motor vehicle; or

    (C) Any amount if the person was under 21 years of age.

    (c) If the person refuses or fails a test under ORS 813.100, the person’s driving privileges will be suspended. The outcome of a criminal charge for driving under the influence of intoxicants will not affect the suspension. The suspension will be substantially longer if the person refuses a test.

    (d) If the person refuses a test or fails a breath test under ORS 813.100 and has an Oregon driver license or permit, the license or permit will be taken immediately and, unless the person does not currently have full valid driving privileges, a temporary driving permit will be issued to the person.

    (e) If the person refuses a test under ORS 813.100, the person is not eligible for a hardship permit for at least 90 days, and possibly for three years, depending on the following factors set forth in ORS 813.430:

    (A) Whether the person is presently participating in a driving while under the influence of intoxicants diversion program in this state or in any similar alcohol or drug rehabilitation program in this or another jurisdiction; or

    (B) Whether within the five years preceding the date of arrest any of the following occurred:

    (i) A suspension of the person’s driving privileges under ORS 813.410 or 482.540 (1981 Replacement Part) became effective;

    (ii) The person was convicted of driving while under the influence of intoxicants in violation of ORS 813.010 or the statutory counterpart to ORS 813.010 in another jurisdiction, as described in ORS 813.430;

    (iii) The person was convicted of driving while under the influence of intoxicants in violation of a municipal ordinance in this state or another jurisdiction, as described in ORS 813.430; or

    (iv) The person commenced participating in a driving while under the influence of intoxicants diversion program in this state or in any similar alcohol or drug rehabilitation program in this or another jurisdiction, as described in ORS 813.430.

    (f) If the person refuses a breath test under ORS 813.100, or refuses a urine test under ORS 813.131 and 813.132, the person is subject to a fine of at least $500 and not more than $1,000.

    (g) After taking a test under ORS 813.100, the person will have a reasonable opportunity, upon request, for an additional chemical test for blood alcohol content to be performed at the person’s own expense by a qualified individual of the person’s choosing.

    (h) The person has a right to a hearing to challenge the validity of the suspension before the suspension becomes effective. The person must make a written request to the department for such a hearing. If the person wins at the hearing, the person’s driving privileges will not be suspended. If the person loses at the hearing, the suspension will remain in effect during any court review of the hearing.

    (i) If the person is issued a temporary driving permit under ORS 813.100, the information provided to the person shall include the number of hours before the driving permit will be effective and the number of days the permit will be effective.

    (j) The information provided to the person shall include the number of days within which a person must request a hearing under ORS 813.410.

    (k) The information provided to the person shall include the number of days within which a hearing under ORS 813.410 will be held.

    (L) The person may possibly qualify for a hardship permit in 30 days if the person fails a test, depending on the person’s driving record.

    (3) If the person is driving a commercial motor vehicle, the information about rights and consequences shall include, in addition to the provisions of subsection (2) of this section, substantially the following:

    (a) If the person refuses a test under ORS 813.100 or submits to a breath or blood test and the level of alcohol in the person’s blood is 0.04 percent or more by weight, the person’s commercial driver license or right to apply for a commercial driver license will be suspended and no hardship permit authorizing the person to drive a commercial motor vehicle will be issued. The suspension will be substantially longer if the person refuses a test.

    (b) The suspension of the person’s commercial driver license or right to apply for a commercial driver license will be for the person’s lifetime if the person refuses a test under ORS 813.100 or submits to a breath or blood test and the level of alcohol in the person’s blood is 0.04 percent or more by weight and:

    (A) The person previously has been convicted of failure to perform the duties of a driver;

    (B) The person previously has been convicted of a crime punishable as a felony and the person was driving a motor vehicle at the time the offense was committed;

    (C) The person previously has been convicted of driving a commercial motor vehicle while the person’s commercial driver license or right to apply for a commercial driver license was suspended or revoked;

    (D) The person previously has been convicted of any degree of murder, manslaughter or criminally negligent homicide resulting from the operation of a commercial motor vehicle or assault in the first degree resulting from the operation of a commercial motor vehicle;

    (E) The person previously has been convicted of driving while under the influence of intoxicants;

    (F) The person’s commercial driver license previously has been suspended or revoked for refusal to submit to, or failure of, a breath or blood test under ORS 813.100; or

    (G) The person’s right to apply for a commercial driver license previously has been suspended or revoked for refusal to submit to, or failure of, a breath or blood test under ORS 813.100 resulting from the operation of a commercial motor vehicle.

    (4) Nothing in this section prohibits the department from providing additional information concerning rights and consequences that the department considers convenient or appropriate. [1985 c.672 §22; 1987 c.673 §3; 1987 c.801 §11; 1989 c.171 §92; 1989 c.636 §43; 1991 c.185 §15; 1991 c.860 §10; 1993 c.305 §4; 1995 c.568 §4; 2003 c.814 §3; 2005 c.649 §28; 2009 c.607 §2; 2009 c.614 §2]

    6) You might want to brush up on what you are consenting to when you get behind the wheel of your car in Oregon before making an $** out of yourself.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2014
    soberups and Chee-to like this.
  16. mkwerx

    mkwerx Forest Grove, OR Well-Known Member

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    If I read that correctly - you must be placed under arrest before they can compel you to be tested, and invoke the implied consent law. They can't just randomly say "hoot in the box" if they stop you for speeding or some such thing.
     
    1337BaldEagle likes this.
  17. albin25

    albin25 Lewiston Idaho Well-Known Member

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    Given our Constitutional right to not "self incriminate"...
    I'm curious....
    I wonder if anyone has tried to invoke the fifth amendment to avoid a "blow test". "I decline to comply with your request, or to answer any questions, or perform physical tests, on the grounds that ....". If you are arresting me, please state as such, read me my rights and allow me to have council present. The trick would be to keep from talking until your lawyer arrived.

    Are there any other laws that "require" someone to self-incriminate?

    But like Ron White said," I may have had the right to remain silent...but I didn't have the ability."
     
  18. Martini_Up

    Martini_Up NW USA Well-Known Member

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    The Supreme Court has held the privilege extends only to communicative evidence, and DNA and fingerprint evidence is considered non-testimonial.

    - See more at: http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimina...-self-incrimination.html#sthash.UqljSvdb.dpuf
     
    1337BaldEagle likes this.
  19. albin25

    albin25 Lewiston Idaho Well-Known Member

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    The main point is, Do Not Talk or answer questions especially BEFORE they arrest you, unless/until under arrest they can't charge with refusal, you must first be read your rights and you Can request your/an attorney attend your consensual blood test.
    As far as the checkpoint cops should know you are Mute.

    IMPORTANT: (do not confuse mute with "mime", and start acting like you're trapped in a glass box, any cop would be perfectly justified in beating the snot out of a mime)


    OR

    That said...If you don't want to bother with the song and dance routine.....
    There is a secret method used by responsible professional drivers and even pilots. It's a trick that is absolutely, positively, for sure, guaranteed to beat a DUI 97%of the time...


    .

    .

    .
    .
    .
    .Stay off the sauce!
    ...never, ever have a drink if you're going to get behind the wheel/tiller/yoke/reins/handlebars ....ever.
     
  20. TwinStick

    TwinStick In the wind Active Member

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    I'm pretty sure the same applies everywhere.

    How about you don't drive drunk and just be on your merry way.

    If you're suspected of being under the influence while driving, and you refuse a breathalyzer, you're going in for a blood test...pretty much everywhere, not just OR.