Oregon affirms Clemente conviction - yard carry is illegal

[ocarolan]

Oregon Supreme Court just ruled on Clemente-Perez:

http://www.leagle.com/decision/In ORCO 20150917B01/STATE v. CLEMENTE-PEREZ

This conclusion means it is now illegal to carry concealed in your own driveway, front yard, and potentially in your garage.

Recommend reading this if you do not have an Oregon CHL...!

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[BDA.45]

I read about half but is this because the weapon was strictly in his vehicle?

 

[albin25]

Firstly, the guy is an idiot, you don't shoot the Ex's phone. The fact that he's an idiot shouldn't have a bearing on the case though.

The way it looks to me is that in Oregon, there is now no way to store or transport a gun in a vehicle if it can be accessed from inside or outside the vehicle, locked, parked or being driven....
...you should be ok if you tape it to the roof in full view though.

Next they'll determine that keeping guns in a safe in your house is concealed carry??

I have one big question...is it a requirement that Oregon Supremes be Olympic gymnasts? because these guys seem to have tied themselves into mental knots of Gordian proportion to come up with their decision.

 

[The B]

Definitely met the "place of residence" exception. Deciding, for convenience, that "place of residence" only includes the area of property within the walls of the main structure is a piece of contrived bullbubblegum.

The guy might very well be an idiot, but he was storing the gun with no criminal intent at all. Nailing him for a crime when there's no mens rea is bullbubblegum. He didn't dispute the stupidity of shooting his wife's phone.... that was a crime. But storing a gun in a "locker" that happens to have some tires on it isn't a crime.

Hope this goes to SCOTUS.

 

[ConcreteJungle]

I've said this a dozen times before...just go get a CHL and be done with it.
Its a gosh darn "shall issue" state so as long as you're of age, a citizen of these great United States and dont have a felony...you're good to go.

 

[ocarolan]

I've said this a dozen times before...just go get a CHL and be done with it.
Its a gosh darn "shall issue" state so as long as you're of age, a citizen of these great United States and dont have a felony...you're good to go.

Yes in light of this ruling and other case law, you effectively need a CHL in Oregon. Remember also there is no exemption for unloaded firearms. Here are some scenarios which are now illegal:

1. Carrying your cased, unloaded rifle from your house to the driveway
2. Receiving a packaged gun via USPS on your own doorstep. (No way to legally carry the box inside)
3. Carrying concealed while sitting in your backyard or hiking your own ranch.
4. Walking a bagged gun to your outbuilding shop for cleaning

The tone of the dissenting opinion seems rather astonished at least.

Most troubling, it appears there is now no legal way to transport a gun from one's house to vehicle except open carry or a connected garage. Even a locked, unloaded firearm violates ORS 166.250, since the "readily accessible" exemption does not apply when carried upon the person. Alternatively, you can likely disassemble and transport (say) a bolt, stock and barrel in two separate trips, based on Briney (2008).

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

bubblegum Oregon and bubblegum that judge.
God I hate where our state (and nation) is headed.

 

[Deebow]

Don't panic. Cops aren't going to be waiting outside homes waiting to arrest anyone who walks outside to their driveway with black rectangular cases or a gun strapped to their hip.

My guess is once he discharged the gun (which was likely got the cops there to begin with) that anything he could be charged with would be on the table.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

 

[rick]

This conclusion means it is now illegal to carry concealed in your own driveway, front yard, and potentially in your garage.

Wow, this is NOT a good precedent.

 

[The B]

Don't panic. Cops aren't going to be waiting outside homes waiting to arrest anyone who walks outside to their driveway with black rectangular cases or a gun strapped to their hip.

My guess is once he discharged the gun (which was likely got the cops there to begin with) that anything he could be charged with would be on the table.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

I'm not OK living free only by the grace of my authorities, because everything is illegal.

 

[ChiefStealth]

I had this discussion, with friends in Wa., several years ago. How to carry a gun, in a case, from your house to somewhere else. Is not the gun concealed, because it is in a case? If it is concealed, do you then need a CPL to carry the gun from your house, to say... your neighbor's house? There are obvious exceptions for carrying to an established shooting range. A few other exceptions.
We concluded that we all needed to get a CPL. If for no other reason than to be covered for just such a situation.

 

[Member 5605]

Looks like a challenge is needed higher up the chain.

Oregon already ruled that your private vehicle is public space so that was an alert that lead to this.

 

[Joe13]

Yea, yall in OR get FA weapons but I'd still rather live in WA...

 

[bolus]

I wish I could sue stupid people who keep doing stupid things (like shooting a cell phone in your back yard) that put them in position where a court goes and sets precedence that punishes everyone else.

 

[mrblond]

looks like it time to build a 12 foot wall around the property and add a automatic gate at the driveway.
May as well make my home a real castle.

 

[WasrNwarpaint]

"
Ben Beckerich"
I'm not OK living free only by the grace of my authorities, because everything is illegal.

You can not control a law abiding public, you must make everything illegal

 

[rodell]

Welcome to CA, who defines public property as anything not behind a fence or wall.

What astonishes me the most is we now have generations who believe this stuff. They aren't stupid; they are truly on a crusade - like a religion.

 

[The Heretic]

I guess this means I will have to get a permit (yes, I used to have one in WA - I let it expire).

I've been meaning to anyway. I don't carry very often - usually on my own property, if then. I had been counting on the whole domicile exemption, but it seems like that was iffy to start with when outside, and now even more so.Not too worried where I live - I never see anybody on my property, but it doesn't hurt to be safe rather than sorry.

But there are a few times when I would have preferred to have a little backup 9MM on my person or handy in my car when in downtown Portland.

 

[Koda]

its always been illegal to CC on your own property, outside your dwelling.

The CC permit system is a two edge sword. Years ago I thought it was ideal and over the years I realized more and more just how much of an infringement it is on our right.

here is another glitch that is illegal w/o a CHL on your person, In Mult. Co. , and some cities that prohibit open carry, you go legally guy a gun at a gun store, its illegal for you to walk it to your car.

and then there are those that dont have cars and rely on public transportation....

 

[Joe13]

its always been illegal to CC on your own property, outside your dwelling.

The CC permit system is a two edge sword. Years ago I thought it was ideal and over the years I realized more and more just how much of an infringement it is on our right.

here is another glitch that is illegal w/o a CHL on your person, In Mult. Co. , and some cities that prohibit open carry, you go legally guy a gun at a gun store, its illegal for you to walk it to your car.

and then there are those that dont have cars and rely on public transportation....

It was not my understanding that carrying an unloaded handgun in a bag was illegal... Anywere. You can put one in your check in bag and fly to LA with it.

Dunno about the specifics on unloaded mags or not but yes, you can bag up your guns and go to a gun range without someone considering you packing concealed.

Ie. There are no permits anywhere that allow you to conceal carry a rifle or shotgun - anywhere, but you can still bag up empty long guns and head out to where ever without an issue.

Loaded vs Not Loaded is generally the determining factor in those laws.