OR, traffic stop CHL

[Straight Shooter]

If you think flashing your CHL or saying you have a gun will make you a brother or gain you privilage is mistaken. I am an NRA instructor and teach hand gun safety classes for the purpose of obtaining a CHL in Oregon. My best friend is our departments range officer and armorer. I have also consulted the local Sheriff and both our local departments administration and both consider anyone announcing they have a gun as a threat.

Keep your gun concealed and to yourself unless asked. If asked, be truthful and follow their directions carefully. Both agencies policy do not include asking about it unless it pertains to an officer safety issue. A routine traffic stop for defective equipment or simple speeding is not a threat to an officer. Doing something that you could be arrested for such as eluding, reckless driving or matching the description of a suspected felon will warrant you being asked if you have a weapon on you.

 

[Jammer Six]

I haven't been stopped in twenty years.

I'll file this thread with all the threads telling me how to react to a felony stop.

 

[Flopsweat]

I really like the last two posts. Whether I am carrying or not is no more relevent than what I had for breakfast. Someone with malice in their heart does not need a gun to assault an officer. I'm no more threat to them armed than not, as I have no wish to harm anyone. Police officers are not by default firearms experts, and I have no intention of encouraging them to handle my firearm, especially when there is no need. I have no idea whether "announcing" has any effect on getting a ticket, and I'd rather get the ticket than risk being flagged with my own sidearm. Besides, if I broke a traffic law, I deserve a ticket.

 

[andreys21]

The day I have my CHL, I will not say a word unless i
I have to. I will just keep my hands on the steering wheel and not make any sudden movements. A smile and a pleasant attitude will go a long way.

 

[Redcap]

I haven't been stopped in twenty years.

I'll file this thread with all the threads telling me how to react to a felony stop.

 

[hermannr]

Yup. Sure can. Take a look at Terry v. Ohio.

Not entirely true. If you are suspected of a CRIME they can disarm you..and traffic INFRACTION is not a crime.

 

[hermannr]

I'd like to see the board LEOs answer with their professional opinions on this. Maybe you all have, maybe you haven't. I don't read every thread here. Here is my dilemma:

I don't have a problem informing. I've obviously been checked by the state (several states to be honest) and they have all deemed me worthy of a CHL. I'm no threat to an LEO. I also don't mind telling one that I'm carrying if necessary. The problem that I have is that the one LEO friend that I've asked about this turned me off to informing. He's a great guy, a great cop and someone that openly stands behind our 2A/OC/CC rights. But when asked what he'd do on a traffic stop when informed he told me that he'd do the following:

1. Secure the driver (this means take you from the car and either put you in his car or on the sidewalk)
2. Secure the firearm
3. Only return the firearm in the unloaded condition in a place in the vehicle that the driver cannot easily reach (trunk, rear cargo area in SUV, whatever)

All for "his safety"

How should I know if an LEO would be like this or like the ones mentioned above that let you go with simply a "good day"? Why should I go through the above simply for "officer safety" when I've been vetted by the state to carry my firearm? I've yet to see the story of the officer shot by a legally carrying CHL holder.

Will I inform if I am ever pulled over? I have no idea. I'd like to see more professional advice than attacks in these threads though.

And that LEO and his department woudl be sued by me for civil rights violation of the 4th ammendment, 5th ammendment and 2A violations "under color of law". A traffic violation is not a CRIME, Terry does not apply.

 

[LimaCharlie]

Here in Oregon, the dispatchers inform the officers you have a concealed carry permit when they run your information. I hear it on my scanner. I have been stopped two or three times. I have never provided the information and the officers have never mentioned it.

 

[lamrith]

The one caveat and I have heard this from LEO's and people close with them. If you have one, and do not mention it and they hear back on the scanner, it does give them a moment of pause.

Does anyone honestly think the LEO does not have a reason to be nervous if the person stopped has a weapon? LEO's get shot on routine traffic stops by people that have warrants, or other reasons to flee the police. This is a big deal and I would think everyone understand it is important information for them to be aware of. So then why not let them know, be up front and honest about it, they will be more relaxed. You tell them up front and they are going to consider you an honest, law abiding citizen, it CAN change thier view of you. Wouldn't you rather know if the roles were reversed? Instead you keep quiet and they hear over the scanner that you have a chl/CPL and may be armed. One thing going thru thier mind will be, what else are they hiding or not telling me about, again it changes thier perception of the situation.

Do you have to tell them, no, we have the right to bear arms per our constitution, that is not the issue. But it just makes sense to be up front about carrying, and makes you come out looking good in thier eyes for being upfront and honest. Never know, depending on the infraction you are stopped for maybe they give you the benefit of the doubt and let you slide..

I do not necessarily agree with them carte blanche disarming you, not unless they have reason besides the CPL to remove you from the vehicle. Again, being upfront will give them less reason to suspect you of hiding something else.

 

[gunnoob75]

Our officers have a very dangerous job. It is the job that they sign up for, they know the risks.

Surely they will be nervous.
But I think hearing "He has a license to carry a concealed firearm" over the radio, is a lot safer than "I have a gun" while he's at your window.

 

[FortunateSon]

It's personal preference - I do show my CHL (been stopped twice since I received my license and wasn't ticketed either time). In my opinion it shows respect, due respect, to the LEO if you inform him up front. That being said, I certainly can't fault anyone for having a difference of opinion.

And now a short story -

My wife and I were leaving Spirit Mountain Casino late one night a few weeks ago. I never take my weapon when going to the casino - against tribal law. As I was leaving I did a "rolling stop" as I left the parking lot and the next thing I know I am being pulled over by the County. When the officer approached the car I handed over my DL, proof of insurance, and my CHL. He looked at my information and asked how often we go to the Casino. Then he asked if I was carrying. I simply stated "not tonight". He stated that if I am licensed then I should carry. I told him - not at the Casino. He just looked at me - that was then end of the conversation regarding my CHL. He took me at my word that I wasn't carrying and informed me that he was logging it as a "courtesy stop" and if pulled over for the same offense in the future I would be ticketed. No sweat....... thanks Officer.

I do wonder though, was he testing me or was he ignorant of tribal law????

 

[lamrith]

Very True Wake, no argument there, being a son of a former LEO I know the toll it takes and stress involved. We had friends Killed in the line during a traffic stop, and that was back in the 80's.. My question (honestly, not being smarta55) is why make it more stressfull playing cat n mouse about a ccw with them? The point is we as chl/cpl holders have followed the law and gone thru the effort to obtain the permit, why hide or keep quiet about it? What's to gain?

"I have a gun"

You NEVER utter that phrase to a LEO, or say the word gun. Just hand him your license, registration and CHL/CPL, then keep your hands on the wheel, it speaks for itself. If he asks further you can say I have "it" on me, in bag, etc, he will likely just say please to not move or reach toward it. Just don't say gun. If he has a partner backing up, that is the one word that will ring out over the traffic noise..

 

[Westcoastmountainman]

O.K this is a topic of great debate. It is against the 2nd and 4th amendments for police to enter any persons personal property, be it a home(owned or rented) car, wallet, or purse(i.e personal effects) with or with out probable cause, and conduct a search and seizure of any property with out prior consent. They would need to obtain a search warrant first. A car can be classified as either public or private property. People live in their vehicles all of the time. This also protects individuals from being approached in the state of Oregon and this includes Utah, Texas, Arizona, New mexico, Now Oklahoma, and I think Nevada, from police officers taking your side arm off of your person with out your permission, As these are open carry states that I know of. Oregon does not have a Terry law in place, granting individuals the right to openly carry any legally obtained fire arm he or she sees fit. We do not have to present I.D. when asked by police officers(exception being in a traffic stop),this is a part of the fourth and fifth amendments. There are some videos on Youtube.com about this very thing happening in Eugene. Two city cops try to stop a person from open carry and request his weapon and his I.D. He promptly told the police no. They started to get huffy when he read them the law, nearly to the letter. They could not stop him from leaving either. Legally if a person tries to take something of our with out permission, we have the right to place that person under citizens arrest. This includes the police. Cops wonder why they get a bad rap, this is one of the many reasons for it. Here is another little quirk of the law, we can stop a cop in traffic and write them citations for speeding, operating a cellular device while driving, using their computers while driving(distracting device). Just get up behind them, turn on your amber lights, honk if needed pull them over, walk up to their vehicle, request their ticket booklet and proceed to cite them for their infractions. If the officer refuses, place a call for additional units on 911 and tell the officer that he or she is under citizens arrest. They can not stop you from doing so and will have to appear in front of traffic court. They are to be held to the letter of the law just as we are. It is a wonderful thing to learn law for a career in Criminal Justice. Check this sight out for some gun laws Oregon Firearms Federation | FAQ's. A Gun Owner's Guide In The Beaver State

 

[gunnoob75]

I guess I am just of the opinion that there is no "Cat and Mouse" game to be played.

It is not the officers business if I am carrying. If he gets the info on the Radio and freaks out about it, that is on the officer.

And as a public employee, it is part of his job.

 

[Westcoastmountainman]

Very True Wake, no argument there, being a son of a former LEO I know the tol it takes and stress involved. We had freinds Killed in the line during a traffic stop, and that was back in the 80's.. My question (honestly, not being smarta55) is why make it more stressfull playing cat n mouse about a ccw with them? The point is we as chl/cpl holders have followed the law and gone thru the effort to obtain the permit, why hide or keep quiet about it? What's to gain?


You NEVER utter that phrase to a LEO, or say the word gun. Just hand him your license, registration and CHL/CPL, then keep your hands on the wheel, it speaks for itself. If he asks further you can say I have "it" on me, in bag, etc, he will likely just say please to not move or reach toward it. Just don't say gun. If he has a partner backing up, that is the one word that will ring out over the traffic noise..

Agreed, It is just common courtesy here. I do not want to be shot, nor the officer. This is just a part of what you learn when obtaining your ccp/ccl. Cops can not legally prevent you from carrying, whether it is open or concealed, unless you have a felony on your record. Just relax, make it less stressful for both parties. Cops, especially rookies, tend to get badge heavy in Oregon. Personally I think all police agency's should require at least two years in school to learn your general laws. In Amarillo Texas, A.P.D requires all rookie cops to take a two year degree in Criminal justice after a two year academy. I think all states should make this mandatory. Amarillo police dept. have had less complaints, accidental shootings, and are treated better(even by out of Stater's) than most of this nations police forces. RESPECT, HONESTY,and MANORS work both ways. A.P.D is taught this from the Texas Rangers. I used to live in Texas for 3 years.

 

[FortunateSon]

O.K this is a topic of great debate. It is against the 2nd and 4th amendments for police to enter any persons personal property, be it a home(owned or rented) car, wallet, or purse(i.e personal effects) with or with out probable cause, and conduct a search and seizure of any property with out prior consent. They would need to obtain a search warrant first. A car can be classified as either public or private property. People live in their vehicles all of the time. This also protects individuals from being approached in the state of Oregon and this includes Utah, Texas, Arizona, New mexico, Now Oklahoma, and I think Nevada, from police officers taking your side arm off of your person with out your permission, As these are open carry states that I know of. Oregon does not have a Terry law in place, granting individuals the right to openly carry any legally obtained fire arm he or she sees fit. We do not have to present I.D. when asked by police officers(exception being in a traffic stop),this is a part of the fourth and fifth amendments. There are some videos on Youtube.com about this very thing happening in Eugene. Two city cops try to stop a person from open carry and request his weapon and his I.D. He promptly told the police no. They started to get huffy when he read them the law, nearly to the letter. They could not stop him from leaving either. Legally if a person tries to take something of our with out permission, we have the right to place that person under citizens arrest. This includes the police. Cops wonder why they get a bad rap, this is one of the many reasons for it. Here is another little quirk of the law, we can stop a cop in traffic and write them citations for speeding, operating a cellular device while driving, using their computers while driving(distracting device). Just get up behind them, turn on your amber lights, honk if needed pull them over, walk up to their vehicle, request their ticket booklet and proceed to cite them for their infractions. If the officer refuses, place a call for additional units on 911 and tell the officer that he or she is under citizens arrest. They can not stop you from doing so and will have to appear in front of traffic court. They are to be held to the letter of the law just as we are. It is a wonderful thing to learn law for a career in Criminal Justice. Check this sight out for some gun laws Oregon Firearms Federation | FAQ's. A Gun Owner's Guide In The Beaver State

You are obviously well versed on this subject, but I am of the opinion that just because you can doesn't mean you should. Common sense should factor into the decision making process.

 

[Westcoastmountainman]

Yup. Sure can. Take a look at Terry v. Ohio.

Actually no they can. They can not lawfully detain you if you are not doing anything wrong. Oregon does not have the Terry law.

 

[Westcoastmountainman]

You are obviously well versed on this subject, but I am of the opinion that just because you can doesn't mean you should. Common sense should factor into the decision making process.

I am of the opinion just because they have a badge on their chest does not mean they are above the law they are sworn to uphold. They need to be help to the same standards as the people they are charged to protect.
I also agree the common sense should be factored into the decision making process.

 

[23Bandit]

You have the right to remain silent. Use it.

Be polite and courteous and do not lie.

I would respond truthfully and politely if asked by a LEO, but unless legally required, I will not volunteer information.

Exactly.

 

[hermannr]

Police have a dangerous job, yes, but not as dangerous as many others...not even in the top 10.

If an officer runs your license and it shows you have CPL/CHL he should relax, not get uptight. Bad Guys that are up to no good don't bother with CPLs and CHLs, they just carry concealed, and are generally not qualified for a CPLorCHL...which is another point...an officer does not have to worry about the weapon he CAN see...it is the one he can't see that could hurt him.

When I was in Vietnam they always said, as the bullets were flying by, you will never hear the bullet that kills you. It is the same with a pistol. The one you see openly, will not hurt you.

BTW: The answer to any question as to if you are armed or not is: I have nothing illegal. I've never been asked, but that is the proper answer.