OR: self service fueling enforcement suspended

[Barefootdog]

No, 'fraid not. The point of the law has been to preserve an abundance of dead-end. low paying jobs. Because that's how Oregonians think. A crappy job is better than no job. And most of them don't understand economics. They can't fathom that if the premium they pay for gas to provide those crappy jobs were allowed to find its way into the economy in a free market, the return would provide greater opportunities for the population.

In fairness....Price for diesel increased from $2.09-$2.19 in Jan to $3.50 today.
Assuming a Jan price of $2.15 that's a 62.78% increase in consumer cost of fuel.

Paying some guy small money to perform a crappy dead end job has minimal impact on per gallon cost or opportunity cost in the balance of the economy.

....and while we're at it...if you're worried about increased consumer/total cost of fuel can you tell me what the state collects per gallon in fuel taxes?.....or the rate per gallon of Federal fuel taxation....or the tax rate per gallon imposed by your city/county?

Add up all those taxes........for that cost the pumps should be staffed by dancing girls with tight butts, perky tatas and most of their teeth....

IMHO, WADR, YMMV

 

[ma96782]

No, 'fraid not. The point of the law has been to preserve an abundance of dead-end. low paying jobs. Because that's how Oregonians think. A crappy job is better than no job. And most of them don't understand economics. They can't fathom that if the premium they pay for gas to provide those crappy jobs were allowed to find its way into the economy in a free market, the return would provide greater opportunities for the population.

You and I may know that. But......
I doubt that the legislature (in all their wisdom) framed it (sold the idea to the public) that way when they made the law. LOL.

Aloha, Mark

 

[Cavedweller]

You and I may know that. But......
I doubt that the legislature (in all their wisdom) framed it (sold the idea to the public) that way when they made the law. LOL.

Aloha, Mark

Yes and no. Looks like both the so-called safety issue and job preservation are written into the law. However, it seems to my fading memory that we have voted on this a couple of times, and keeping those jobs has always been used to justify voting against self-service at gas stations.

"Written into the statute are 17 reasons why the state deemed it in the public interest to ban self-serve gasoline, or as the state refers to it, "Class 1 flammable liquids." The reasons were added to as time went on, and range from anachronistic to silly:

• "The dangers of crime and slick surfaces described in subsection (3) of this section are enhanced because Oregon's weather is uniquely adverse, causing wet pavement and reduced visibility" Because slipping is a significant hazard in covered gas stations, and rain isn't a problem in other states.
• "The increased use of self-service at retail in other states has contributed to diminishing the availability of automotive repair facilities at gasoline stations" Spoiler alert, this 1951 law did not stop the closing of repair shops at gas stations in Oregon.
• " Small children left unattended when customers leave to make payment at retail self-service stations creates a dangerous situation." This reason was updated as late as 2007, long after the advent of credit card readers at gas pumps. Apparently strangers might grab children when you're standing 2 feet from them inserting your credit card.
• "Self-service dispensing at retail contributes to unemployment, particularly among young people." This one is particularly funny, given that one of the reasons preceding it is: "Exposure to toxic fumes represents a health hazard to customers dispensing Class 1 flammable liquids." Apparently, gasoline fumes are dangerous, so dangerous that it's important that we employ young people to dispense them."

The Insanity of Oregon’s Self-Serve Gas Ban

It’s illegal to pump your own gas in Oregon — or is it?

medium.com

 

[Cavedweller]

....and while we're at it...if you're worried about increased consumer/total cost of fuel can you tell me what the state collects per gallon in fuel taxes?.....or the rate per gallon of Federal fuel taxation....or the tax rate per gallon imposed by your city/county?

Add up all those taxes........for that cost the pumps should be staffed by dancing girls with tight butts, perky tatas and most of their teeth....

IMHO, WADR, YMMV

Allow me to clarify a bit. It is not the increased cost to the individual consumer in terms of cents per gallon that is relevant here. It is the aggregate amount of wages paid by private employers. Using Oregon Employment Dept. data, the total amount of money paid to fuel attendants at gas stations and food and beverage stores to pump gas for customers is:

Ave. annual wages of $29,350 (will increase this year due to minimum wage hike) X 3,285 employees = $96,414,750. That is $96 million each year that would otherwise be available for investment, entrepreneurship, and innovation in the economy.

The fact that this amount is dwarfed by government's insatiable appetite for tax revenue is not really pertinent to this discussion. That's an entirely separate issue.

Paying some guy small money to perform a crappy dead end job has minimal impact on per gallon cost or opportunity cost in the balance of the economy.

Because that's how Oregonians think.

WADR, thanks for proving my point.

 

[Mikej]

The point of the law has been to preserve an abundance of dead-end. low paying jobs. Because that's how Oregonians think

Did you ever stop the think there are "Dead End" people out there that need those jobs? What should they do? Become brain surgeons instead? Working any job is better than doing nothing. Curious to know what kind of "Glorious" job you have that puts you so for up from us lowly laborers?

 

[Cavedweller]

Did you ever stop the think there are "Dead End" people out there that need those jobs? What should they do? Become brain surgeons instead? Working any job is better than doing nothing. Curious to know what kind of "Glorious" job you have that puts you so for up from us lowly laborers?

I hadn't thought about it that way. You might be right.

PS. I'm retired.

 

[Bam]

I can't imagine handling gas and breathing fumes for several hours a day is healthy.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was found that someone working these jobs long term would suffer from job related health problems. I doubt anyone has bothered to study the effects because only two states require attendants.

That should be reason enough to get rid of this stupid law.

The so called heat wave never happened, unless we are calling high 80s/low 90s a heat wave now. I suppose never let a crisis go to waste! Regardless, when I got gas yesterday, there was only one attendant working and a car at every pump. I was able to get in and out quick, only because I pumped my own gas.

Since lefties love causes so much...

SAVE THE GAS MONKEYS! PUMP YOUR OWN GAS!

 

[Mikej]

I can't imagine handling gas and breathing fumes for several hours a day is healthy.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was found that someone working these jobs long term would suffer from job related health problems. I doubt anyone has bothered to study the effects because only two states require attendants.

That should be reason enough to get rid of this stupid law.

The so called heat wave never happened, unless we are calling high 80s/low 90s a heat wave now. I suppose never let a crisis go to waste! Regardless, when I got gas yesterday, there was only one attendant working and a car at every pump. I was able to get in and out quick, only because I pumped my own gas.

Since lefties love causes so much...

SAVE THE GAS MONKEYS! PUMP YOUR OWN GAS!

I'd say it's more unhealthy living, breathing, driving, shopping in potland for too many years. I don't know where people get the idea a person pumping gasoline is stuck huffing gas fumes all day long? If you pumped your own gas you know your not shooting it out the nozzle 3' into a funnel with your face right in the fumes? You see that air in potland yesterday? It made the sun look red. What's in that air I wonder?

I've been here 37 years. Pumped my own gas in Utah before I move here for 20 years. I've driven quite a bit because I always liked driving, and I've never see a lot of the things people complain about having to wait for an attendant to start the pump.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Most gas stations in Oregon aren't open 24 hours a day.
All gas stations in Washington are open 24 hours a day.
Oregon hates you.

 

[Provincial]

The women in my family like the current system. This included my departed Mother, who hated the thought of getting out of the car in the rain (or heat) to handle a dirty gas pump nozzle.

When I travel, I don't notice that the places with self-service pumps have much lower prices for gas. I think that any savings from self-service will not be passed on to the consumer, and the Government will do nothing about it.

 

[ma96782]

Did you ever stop the think there are "Dead End" people out there that need those jobs? What should they do? Become brain surgeons instead? Working any job is better than doing nothing. Curious to know what kind of "Glorious" job you have that puts you so for up from us lowly laborers?

Yup.....no doubt that the gas station person is making some money. Their own money......from their hard work.

BUT, But, but.......
There are plenty of people who collect from the Govt for doing absolutely nothing to "help" society at all.

Ooops.....I'm supposed to be careful about "welfare bashing".

Aloha, Mark

 

[Cavedweller]

I don't know where people get the idea a person pumping gasoline is stuck huffing gas fumes all day long? If you pumped your own gas you know your not shooting it out the nozzle 3' into a funnel with your face right in the fumes?

Because the legislature says so. We can't pump our own gas because exposure to toxic fumes is dangerous to customers (according to the legislature), but it's OK for a minimum wage worker to do so all day long. No contradiction there, right? ????

 

[Certaindeaf]

Because the legislature says so. We can't pump our own gas because exposure to toxic fumes is dangerous to customers (according to the legislature), but it's OK for a minimum wage worker to do so all day long. No contradiction there, right? ????

In-depth research was conducted by the department of buggy whips so it's iron clad data.

 

[Cavedweller]

Did you ever stop the think there are "Dead End" people out there that need those jobs? What should they do? Become brain surgeons instead? Working any job is better than doing nothing. Curious to know what kind of "Glorious" job you have that puts you so for up from us lowly laborers?

OK, I've chewed on this one for a while and here are my thoughts: I suppose what they could do if they are truly "dead end people" is go out and apply for any of the myriad minimum wage jobs that are available right now. Does it make sense to artificially raise costs in one industry when employers in other industries are begging for help? Or is this just another example of government intervention creating distortions in the marketplace? I would challenge the assertion that those jobs are "needed."

What do they do in 48 other states? Is Oregon a more enlightened, progressive state with better leadership because it mandates the existence of a certain number of crappy, low paying jobs for it's "dead end people"? Or are Oregonians just inherently less able to provide for themselves than other people, so more in need of government mandated jobs?

I have not changed my opinion that if otherwise invested, that capital could provide better, more satisfying opportunities for Oregon workers.

 

[Cavedweller]

The women in my family like the current system. This included my departed Mother, who hated the thought of getting out of the car in the rain (or heat) to handle a dirty gas pump nozzle.

When I travel, I don't notice that the places with self-service pumps have much lower prices for gas. I think that any savings from self-service will not be passed on to the consumer, and the Government will do nothing about it.

"I am willing to pay extra for the convenience of having someone pump my gas for me," is, IMO, a more valid argument for the current system than, "We all must pay more to provide a certain number of minimum wage jobs." However, I would propose the adoption of a dual system, like some states have, with both full serve and self serve lanes. Let those who want the service pay for it. Choice is good.

It's been my experience that at reservation owned gas stations, where self service is allowed, gas prices are generally lower.

 

[Catfishmoon]

The women in my family like the current system. This included my departed Mother, who hated the thought of getting out of the car in the rain (or heat) to handle a dirty gas pump nozzle.

When I travel, I don't notice that the places with self-service pumps have much lower prices for gas. I think that any savings from self-service will not be passed on to the consumer, and the Government will do nothing about it.

Having options in any situation is a good thing, I am glad a gas attendant is an option for elderly or anyone willing to pay extra for the service...
My observation from living in Seattle and traveling thru Washington state is that a person pays about $1 more per gallon in Washington when you find a rare gas station that offers an attendant. These are the old-school ones that will check the oil level of the vehicle and handwash the windshield. There are not many of them and they are usually found near the city center of metropolitan areas like Seattle or Spokane, or an affluent neighborhood where you will find a few people willing to pay the premium of having someone else provide the service.

 

[Certaindeaf]

It's really boogerhook training in the final analysis so it's pro 2A in my book.





lol

 

[Mikej]

OK, I've chewed on this one for a while and here are my thoughts: I suppose what they could do if they are truly "dead end people" is go out and apply for any of the myriad minimum wage jobs that are available right now. Does it make sense to artificially raise costs in one industry when employers in other industries are begging for help? Or is this just another example of government intervention creating distortions in the marketplace? I would challenge the assertion that those jobs are "needed."

What do they do in 48 other states? Is Oregon a more enlightened, progressive state with better leadership because it mandates the existence of a certain number of crappy, low paying jobs for it's "dead end people"? Or are Oregonians just inherently less able to provide for themselves than other people, so more in need of government mandated jobs?

I have not changed my opinion that if otherwise invested, that capital could provide better, more satisfying opportunities for Oregon workers.

"I am willing to pay extra for the convenience of having someone pump my gas for me," is, IMO, a more valid argument for the current system than, "We all must pay more to provide a certain number of minimum wage jobs." However, I would propose the adoption of a dual system, like some states have, with both full serve and self serve lanes. Let those who want the service pay for it. Choice is good.

It's been my experience that at reservation owned gas stations, where self service is allowed, gas prices are generally lower.

Things are all screwed up. There aren't supposed to be any "Dead end jobs". Those minimum wage jobs are supposed to be "Gateway Jobs". That gas station job was my very first job at 16 YO. I learned to do brake jobs, tune-ups, oil changes, all manor of full service gas station work. We had companies that ran heavy trucks that had split rim tires that brought their work to us. We had eight pumps, four full serve four self serve. That was learning experience, not a dead end job. I got my own car at 18 and daddy didn't buy my gas, insurance or tires anymore. Those minimum wage jobs are also there for retired people that still want to get out and make a little money and do something besides sit and look out the window.

Thing are all screwed up. The last couple of generations doesn't make their kids step up and work. The kids are being convinced college is the only thing in life for them after high school. Hmm, maybe they don't work because their parents tell them those minimum wage jobs are a "Dead End"? Or continue to cover expenses for them? And then you've got one faction of our political system that currently believes in giving people money to NOT work! Now I'm getting Pissed off thinking about this again!
There are stories almost every day of younger people that won't, can't, don't, show up to work at the major chain grocery store Wifey has worked at for over 23 years! There are hardly, if any 16-18 YO that show up for jobs when school lets out anymore. 20 something's are some of the most unfit for work creatures that have ever been seen. And people in their thirties have pathetic work ethics. I don't think there is one person out of 20+ that wifey oversees that has more than one job. I don't know about here in Oregon, but when I was in high school there was a work release program. A senior, with proper credits, could get a job and cut out at noon to go to a job and they received three periods of school credits for that.

As far as self service gas goes. I don't really care. I like chatting with the pump jockeys normally. I don't believe gas will be cheaper if we pump it ourselves.

Things are all screwed up. There's currently tons of jobs out there. And it seems people don't put jobs as one of the top priorities in their lives anymore? It twists my brain hearing the different reasons people use to not show up for work, most every day!

 

[Cavedweller]

There aren't supposed to be any "Dead end jobs". Those minimum wage jobs are supposed to be "Gateway Jobs".

Very true. It is sad to see adults trying to support a family while working a minimum wage job. Sometimes 2 jobs, just to make ends meet. It should be young people filling those positions, getting work experience, while adults should have been able to move up the ladder to something better.

 

[RicInOR]