OR Sec of State request for IP43 procedural compliance - here is mine

[SUPER X]

Sadly, if we defend our rights this year, they'll be back next year.
If we pass pro-2A legislation next year, they'll try to defeat it the year after.

We are in a cycle of our history where people don't remember, and don't care to remember the role firearms played in winning our liberties. They are too comfortable with their current relative safety to care about how firearms have been used in our history to keep their liberties. Too many just don't care. Too many of our own don't care.

It will take some event, of some magnitude to change that.

They still will not let go.

 

[brenty]

That is a huge worry of mine. I feel like even if we swat this IP43 down they will be back in 2020 or worse the legislature will take over the cause in the next session, and every year that goes by we have a smaller percentage of voters who are 2nd amendment supporters. It almost feels like it is a lost cause but I am open to ideas for a long term solution to this problem. Anybody have one?

I strongly disagree with it being a lost cause. I certainly do not want to hint at other people that it might be. because that just flat isnt true. We are seeing a growing movement of people learing to re appreciate conservative values. People are paying attention less and less to legacy media as well. This will be a long uphill battle. But I belive it will only get easier as time goes on. Provided we can do something about the borders, soon. Wont be a lost cause as long as 1 of us is still standing

 

[arakboss]

I strongly disagree with it being a lost cause. I certainly do not want to hint at other people that it might be. because that just flat isnt true. We are seeing a growing movement of people learing to re appreciate conservative values. People are paying attention less and less to legacy media as well. This will be a long uphill battle. But I belive it will only get easier as time goes on. Provided we can do something about the borders, soon. Wont be a lost cause as long as 1 of us is still standing

Sorry for the defeatist attitude yesterday, I haven't snapped out of it yet but I haven't given up either. I don't share the rosy optimistic view you have. I am not seeing this growing movement to revive conservative values in Oregon. Everywhere I look from voters to courts to churches to education to politicians to corporations to unions, the change in Oregon and elsewhere seems to be toward a more liberal anti-gun bias. Heck even the POTUS is not overly friendly to gun rights, the soon to be worthless bump stock I own is evidence of that.

I think we have one chance in Oregon this year and that is for Pro2A candidates to win a majority of Oregon House Seats. That will stall the anti-gun movement in the Legislature until 2021ish but after that the picture doesn't look good. We have tens of thousands of new people moving to Oregon every year and I am pretty sure most of them are not strong 2A supporters. The hardcore 2A supporters are a dying breed and we are not able to replace them with equally strong 2A supporters. It's really a math problem that is going to be very difficult to overcome. I would love to hear solid ideas on how we can turn this around for the long term?

 

[arakboss]

Sadly, if we defend our rights this year, they'll be back next year.
If we pass pro-2A legislation next year, they'll try to defeat it the year after.

We are in a cycle of our history where people don't remember, and don't care to remember the role firearms played in winning our liberties. They are too comfortable with their current relative safety to care about how firearms have been used in our history to keep their liberties. Too many just don't care. Too many of our own don't care.

It will take some event, of some magnitude to change that.

I agree and if we look at other states and abroad, it seems once you loose significant rights to own guns you usually don't get them back.

 

[brenty]

Sorry for the defeatist attitude yesterday, I haven't snapped out of it yet but I haven't given up either. I don't share the rosy optimistic view you have. I am not seeing this growing movement to revive conservative values in Oregon. Everywhere I look from voters to courts to churches to education to politicians to corporations to unions, the change in Oregon and elsewhere seems to be toward a more liberal anti-gun bias. Heck even the POTUS is not overly friendly to gun rights, the soon to be worthless bump stock I own is evidence of that.

I think we have one chance in Oregon this year and that is for Pro2A candidates to win a majority of Oregon House Seats. That will stall the anti-gun movement in the Legislature until 2021ish but after that the picture doesn't look good. We have tens of thousands of new people moving to Oregon every year and I am pretty sure most of them are not strong 2A supporters. The hardcore 2A supporters are a dying breed and we are not able to replace them with equally strong 2A supporters. It's really a math problem that is going to be very difficult to overcome. I would love to hear solid ideas on how we can turn this around for the long term?

I hear what you are saying. I think my main concern was to not deter people possibly leaning towards supporting freedom from joining the fight to due people already supportive saying things that to the Un initiated especially may make it seem pointless to join the fight. Thats my main worry, definately not trying to ignore the reality of things. I wouldnt say I'm rosy about it but I like to consider myself fairly plugged in when it comes to political knowledge and trends, and while I agree with you in general, I do think there will be a pushback at some point. I think there are more gun friendly people than the legacy media wants you to belive. And people are trusting the media less and less. Which is also good for us. And lots of great conservative youtube and social media figures that are rapidly gaining popularity. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out. I am going to try and remain optimistic yet still remain in reality as much as possible.

 

[arakboss]

I hear what you are saying. I think my main concern was to not deter people possibly leaning towards supporting freedom from joining the fight to due people already supportive saying things that to the Un initiated especially may make it seem pointless to join the fight. Thats my main worry, definately not trying to ignore the reality of things. I wouldnt say I'm rosy about it but I like to consider myself fairly plugged in when it comes to political knowledge and trends, and while I agree with you in general, I do think there will be a pushback at some point. I think there are more gun friendly people than the legacy media wants you to belive. And people are trusting the media less and less. Which is also good for us. And lots of great conservative youtube and social media figures that are rapidly gaining popularity. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out. I am going to try and remain optimistic yet still remain in reality as much as possible.

That is a great attitude to have.

 

[Ura-Ki]

My own recent observations are that a awful lot of Hard Core Democrats types have seen this and said it goes WAY to far! Most of those people have a pro 2nd attitude, at least toward hunting and shooting sports, but hate the AR and other " Military Pattern Rifles" saying no one needs, and such. Even those folks have said STOP! This is too much, and these folks live and work in the large cities! A large number of them are also very upset with Kate and her IronFisted rule of the State, and are pizzed enough to vote her out, even going so far as to vote for a Republican! Lastly, most of these folks know where the Money is coming from, and they do not like that one bit, especially the outside influences from small minded billionaires who think they know what's best, yet they do not live here! There has been an awakening in OryGun, and while I have no idea if that will turn the tide, I do know it will bring out a lot more voters then we have seen historically! I can also tell you, the Hispanics among us support the 2nd, its a "Luxury" they now have as a right, and they know full well the consequences of loosing that right, count on a shift in the vote from them!

 

[oneharmonic]

I know quite a few Democrats who would vote Republican on occasion, because of single issues like gun control. The Republican party isn't what it used to be, and the 2018 midterms will be more of a referendum on national politics than about local politics or single issues.

Perhaps instead of putting all our eggs in one basket, we think about branching out. Conor Lamb, a Democrat, recently won a special election in PA, and he's pro-gun. Conor Lamb & Gun Control: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com

 

[guido1161]

do any other states have an electoral college model like that for electing a governor?

Not that I know of.

 

[etrain16]

My own recent observations are that a awful lot of Hard Core Democrats types have seen this and said it goes WAY to far! Most of those people have a pro 2nd attitude, at least toward hunting and shooting sports, but hate the AR and other " Military Pattern Rifles" saying no one needs, and such. Even those folks have said STOP! This is too much, and these folks live and work in the large cities! A large number of them are also very upset with Kate and her IronFisted rule of the State, and are pizzed enough to vote her out, even going so far as to vote for a Republican! Lastly, most of these folks know where the Money is coming from, and they do not like that one bit, especially the outside influences from small minded billionaires who think they know what's best, yet they do not live here! There has been an awakening in OryGun, and while I have no idea if that will turn the tide, I do know it will bring out a lot more voters then we have seen historically! I can also tell you, the Hispanics among us support the 2nd, its a "Luxury" they now have as a right, and they know full well the consequences of loosing that right, count on a shift in the vote from them!

I'm seeing the same thing. I'm talking with center and even more left Democrats and they're concerned about this - because they know a bill banning lawfully owned items for us could easily set a dangerous precedent and be turned around on them in the future. Turning law-abiding citizens into criminals for lawfully owning items they already have is a very, very dangerous place to go. I make sure to get that point through to them any chance I can get. It's important that they view this beyond just the gun control implications - other rights could be in just as much danger based solely on public opinion and outrage.

One of my co-workers is a pretty hard-core leftist Democrat, but very pro-2A. He said there is no way in hell he'd vote for this. I asked him to tell as many people as he can about it.

 

[arakboss]

I know quite a few Democrats who would vote Republican on occasion, because of single issues like gun control. The Republican party isn't what it used to be, and the 2018 midterms will be more of a referendum on national politics than about local politics or single issues.

Perhaps instead of putting all our eggs in one basket, we think about branching out. Conor Lamb, a Democrat, recently won a special election in PA, and he's pro-gun. Conor Lamb & Gun Control: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com

We have had that too in the past, I think Betsy Johnson

I'm seeing the same thing. I'm talking with center and even more left Democrats and they're concerned about this - because they know a bill banning lawfully owned items for us could easily set a dangerous precedent and be turned around on them in the future. Turning law-abiding citizens into criminals for lawfully owning items they already have is a very, very dangerous place to go. I make sure to get that point through to them any chance I can get. It's important that they view this beyond just the gun control implications - other rights could be in just as much danger based solely on public opinion and outrage.

One of my co-workers is a pretty hard-core leftist Democrat, but very pro-2A. He said there is no way in hell he'd vote for this. I asked him to tell as many people as he can about it.

 

[etrain16]

BTW - there is a fight internally in the Democrat party in Oregon. The center/moderate Dems are being challenged by hard left Dems for not being left enough, not demanding more taxes, social programs, etc. People like Peter Courtney, no friend to gun owners himself, are being considered too moderate for Oregon. WTF?!

It's getting weird I tell ya - check out the story below about who's at risk. BTW, the Dems are ONE SEAT away from a super-majority in Oregon - meaning nothing could stop them if voters don't stop putting Democrats in seats in Salem. They may even have the power to overturn a veto by an R governor, if we were able to get one in there this November. Let's hope they eat each other up and get wrapped up in their own political turmoil.

May primary could determine whether Oregon Legislature's Democrats move left

 

[Ura-Ki]

This is where we need to shift tactics and stop voting party line, and start voting issues regardless of party, who ever best fits the needs of the people and the state is who we should be supporting, and not the letter in front of the name! If we could do that, we would have the best position to work with, and I bet we would still have the same make up within the state! I wish more Democrats would go back to the way things were in that party, upholding those views that they have, this ultra radicalisism has takin things far over the edge, and we need to pull it all back! For me personally, I don' care what the letter in front of that name represents, I care about the views that person has, and how best that person can serve the people and the state!

 

[Diamondback]

Problem is, will more of them be like Betsy Johnson and tell the leadership to go fudgepack themselves when the demand comes down from On High about "You WILL vote as we tell you UNLESS we give you a 'permission slip'"... that's the problem, in DC Pelosi & Co are utterly RUTHLESS about enforcing Party ideological-discipline, those who buck them without permission get Primaried.

 

[arakboss]

I believe some of these lefty's will join in voting down IP43 but the problem then lies with the legislature next session. If anti-gun legislators have a another Trifecta with a long session we are in big trouble. We need to break up that Trifecta. The House seems to be our best chance but we need to elect some Pro2a candidates in House

BTW - there is a fight internally in the Democrat party in Oregon. The center/moderate Dems are being challenged by hard left Dems for not being left enough, not demanding more taxes, social programs, etc. People like Peter Courtney, no friend to gun owners himself, are being considered too moderate for Oregon. WTF?!

It's getting weird I tell ya - check out the story below about who's at risk. BTW, the Dems are ONE SEAT away from a super-majority in Oregon - meaning nothing could stop them if voters don't stop putting Democrats in seats in Salem. They may even have the power to overturn a veto by an R governor, if we were able to get one in there this November. Let's hope they eat each other up and get wrapped up in their own political turmoil.

May primary could determine whether Oregon Legislature's Democrats move left

Yep that is why it is so important to for Pro2A candidates to get control of the House.

 

[arakboss]

This is where we need to shift tactics and stop voting party line, and start voting issues regardless of party, who ever best fits the needs of the people and the state is who we should be supporting, and not the letter in front of the name! If we could do that, we would have the best position to work with, and I bet we would still have the same make up within the state! I wish more Democrats would go back to the way things were in that party, upholding those views that they have, this ultra radicalisism has takin things far over the edge, and we need to pull it all back! For me personally, I don' care what the letter in front of that name represents, I care about the views that person has, and how best that person can serve the people and the state!

Exactly right! For me it's a one issue election this year. I don't care what else you believe in as long as you vote against gun control. It is going to be a hard swallow for liberals who are 2nd Amendment supporters. They are more likely to have to vote for somebody outside of their party.

 

[Dat]

I like it.

To the original poster: Has anyone defined what an assault weapon? Just wondering aloud.
Big thanks for writing the Sec of State.

 

[1Asterisk]

To the original poster: Has anyone defined what an assault weapon? Just wondering aloud.
Big thanks for writing the Sec of State.

For purposes of Initiative Petition 43, it is defined in the initiative.

 

[awshoot]

Sorry to burst your bubble but here is why states can have registries. FOPA only prevented federal records from being used to create registries. ...

I found a bit more on this topic and indeed, you are correct: FIREARM REGISTRATION

I will say there are two (desperate and unlikely to pan out) caveats:

1. The analysis was written by the State of CT which has a vested interest in its gun laws being upheld -- it is not unbiased.
2. As pointed out at the end, there has been no SCOTUS guidance to date on whether registration is one of the types of regulations that states may enact.

 

[1Asterisk]

With regard to my original post, apparently the Sec State couldn't find the balls to declare IP43 invalid on the grounds that it does not "meet the procedural constitutional requirements established in the Oregon Constitution for initiative petitions"